COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

You’re not asking the right questions re:China intentions.

Changs ITT

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I think we have decades of proof from Asian countries during flu season that wearing a mask does, in fact, reduce the spread of viruses.

I don't think me being the only person wearing a mask in a room full of mouth-breathers does much to protect me, no.  But I do believe that it helps rob the velocity and stops the larger droplets of moisture from getting released into the air, helping to reduce the spread. 

Is it a 100% solution?  No.  Almost nothing is.  But with the Delta variant infecting roughly 9 additional people for every person that gets it, I'll take all the help I can get.

Oh really? Lol ok dude then why are Japan and Korea getting smashed w COVID? I’ve been all over both countries this summer multiple times and can count on one hand the number of Koreans or Japanese I’ve seen sans mask. 
 

try again. Their mask rate is around 98%

masks don’t “stop the spread”. 

[Scooter14]

Oh really? Lol ok dude then why are Japan and Korea getting smashed w COVID? I’ve been all over both countries this summer multiple times and can count on one hand the number of Koreans or Japanese I’ve seen sans mask. 
 
try again. Their mask rate is around 98%
masks don’t “stop the spread”. 

Let’s see if actual reported numbers support your claim.







ROK has 51M people. According to this, there have been 200k cases and 2100 have died.

Japan has 126M people and according to this, there have been 972k cases and 15,246 have died.

The good ol USofA has 328M people, 35.2 Million cases and 615k have died.

Now, do they wear masks? Yes.

Do the masks slow the spread? Possibly. The data seems to support it.

Have they been exposed to other coronaviruses that may have helped their immune system...kind of like how smallpox just lived amongst the Europeans but annihilated the indigenous North American people? Also a possibility.

Do they count COVID deaths differently? Again, also a possibility. We’ve all heard the anecdotes of the guy in the US who fell off a ladder and died of COVID because they tested positive. Maybe the ROK has a different criteria. That number does seem low but even if you triple their death rate it pales in comparison to ours.

Does the RoK government make non-SOFA personnel install a tracking app on their phone to make sure you quarantine on arrival? Yes...yes they do.

I’m not saying masks are the end all be all answer. I can’t stand wearing mine and we all just went back to it in my little corner of the ANG.

But, if you look at these easily accessible data points it helps.

People should look at numbers more and headlines less. It may take the emotion out of it. That and maybe one of these...

[BashiChuni]

So explain why countries w 98% plus mask rates experience wild spikes?

 

and why countries like India see a wild wave then rapid fall off?

 

oh and Sweden!?

the fact is Masks are pure theatre and bull shit. Fauci told the truth about this in early 2020. There is no data to support them “slowing the spread”

And making those vaccinated and prior infected wear masks is INSANELY anti science and anti vaccine  

We have lost our fucking minds. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by BashiChuni

[ViperMan]

32 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

Do the masks slow the spread? Possibly. The data seems to support it.

Have they been exposed to other coronaviruses that may have helped their immune system...kind of like how smallpox just lived amongst the Europeans but annihilated the indigenous North American people? Also a possibility.

Do they count COVID deaths differently? Again, also a possibility. We’ve all heard the anecdotes of the guy in the US who fell off a ladder and died of COVID because they tested positive. Maybe the ROK has a different criteria. That number does seem low but even if you triple their death rate it pales in comparison to ours.

Does the RoK government make non-SOFA personnel install a tracking app on their phone to make sure you quarantine on arrival? Yes...yes they do.

I’m not saying masks are the end all be all answer. I can’t stand wearing mine and we all just went back to it in my little corner of the ANG.

But, if you look at these easily accessible data points it helps.

I agree that masks slow the spread, but comparing death rates across these countries is fraught with difficulty. For starters, Japan's obesity rate is ~4%. In the US, not one state has less than 20% obesity. Stated differently, our skinniest folks are 5x fatter than Japan - some states approach or exceed 10x! So what amount of the difference is due to their mask adherence vs. them just being much, much healthier in general? I don't know, but I think I'd rather have a BMI < 30 and not wear a mask than rely on a cloth mask to save me.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html

Edited August 6, 2021 by ViperMan

[Scooter14]

I agree that masks slow the spread, but comparing death rates across these countries is fraught with difficulty. For starters, Japan's obesity rate is ~4%. In the US, not one state has less than 20% obesity. Stated differently, our skinniest folks are 5x fatter than Japan - some states approach or exceed 10x! So what amount of the difference is due to their mask adherence vs. them just being much, much healthier in general? I don't know, but I think I'd rather have a BMI https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html

Valid point, I appreciate the numbers associated with your point as well.

It’s definitely not black and white.

[BashiChuni]

everyone says masks slow the spread. it's not been proven. if it has then state your evidence.

[ViperMan]

18 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

everyone says masks slow the spread. it's not been proven. if it has then state your evidence.

*If* your standard is 100% prevention of COVID, then yeah, you're right. Here is a study that quite convincingly demonstrates that masks diminish the amount and distance COVID will spread.

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0015044

Will you get it hanging out in a room with a COVID+ person for a couple hours face-to-face? Probably. The point isn't that it's a silver bullet. The point is that it reduces the probability that you catch the bug. So in that sense, yes it slows the spread. *Also* there will never be any 100% definitive proof, because we don't have two separate universes that we're testing masks vs no masks in an open planet. You either believe the common sense argument that it reduces the energy of your breath thereby reducing how far COVID can go, or you don't. Which it does, because it's hard to breath through.

Note: I'm in the camp that thinks masking up is ridiculous at this point. That said, I can still admit that masks have some positive effect. BL: Get the vaccine or don't. Take your own chances. Everyone at this point has had the opportunity to get it if they so choose. I'm vaxxed and am going back to normal now.

Edited August 6, 2021 by ViperMan

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

We have definitely been in PsyOp/Cyber/Ecoconomic/Biological warfare for a while. You’re right. Remember all those invasive species seeds that came over in 2019 with addresses from China? Agrowarfare.

Nope. Wrong again:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/unsolicited-seeds-china-brushing/619417/

Long read but a somewhat fascinating story. Nothing close to “agrowarfare”. 

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

So explain why countries w 98% plus mask rates experience wild spikes?

 

and why countries like India see a wild wave then rapid fall off?

 

oh and Sweden!?

the fact is Masks are pure theatre and bull shit. Fauci told the truth about this in early 2020. There is no data to support them “slowing the spread”

And making those vaccinated and prior infected wear masks is INSANELY anti science and anti vaccine  

We have lost our fucking minds. 

Their "wild spikes" are lower than our "moderate spread" areas.  I think the US would be pretty happy if we had the same proportion of infections as either Korea or Japan.  1-2% of the population vs 10% of the population? We'd have saved ourselves 30 million cases.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Prozac said:

Nope. Wrong again:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/07/unsolicited-seeds-china-brushing/619417/

Long read but a somewhat fascinating story. Nothing close to “agrowarfare”. 

Who owns The Atlantic with a 70% holding? Laurene Powell Jobs does. Laurene also “donated” $1,200,000 to Biden and other Democrat Party politicians since 2019, according to the Federal Election Commission. I’m sure we can totally trust the compromised media entity, The Atlantic, to not lie about the Cold War being waged on our nation by the CCP while the Biden admin. is bought and paid for by said CCP. 

You think shipping invasive species seeds around a foreign nation you’re hostile to isn’t agriculture warfare. How?

 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Their "wild spikes" are lower than our "moderate spread" areas.  I think the US would be pretty happy if we had the same proportion of infections as either Korea or Japan.  1-2% of the population vs 10% of the population? We'd have saved ourselves 30 million cases.

Where were people like you with this level of concern with the opioid epidemic?

[pawnman]

5 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Where were people like you with this level of concern with the opioid epidemic?

If you wear a mask, you can't take opioid pills. Problem solved. 

[pawnman]

8 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Who owns The Atlantic with a 70% holding? Laurene Powell Jobs does. Laurene also “donated” $1,200,000 to Biden and other Democrat Party politicians since 2019, according to the Federal Election Commission. I’m sure we can totally trust the compromised media entity, The Atlantic, to not lie about the Cold War being waged on our nation by the CCP while the Biden admin. is bought and paid for by said CCP. 

You think shipping invasive species seeds around a foreign nation you’re hostile to isn’t agriculture warfare. How?

 

I keep forgetting that the only valid media source is InfoWars...

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, pawnman said:

If you wear a mask, you can't take opioid pills. Problem solved. 

I wish it were that easy. The pharmaceutical corporations have an evil track record of killing our own people.

 

21 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I keep forgetting that the only valid media source is InfoWars...

I’m supposed to trustThe Atlantic? Next you’ll say Borderlands was good.

[TheNewGazmo]

Lot's of variables as to why some countries have lower COVID case/death rates than others.  Of course this stuff isn't widely disseminated unless you're searching for it:

https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2020/05/04/2026625/0/en/High-COVID-19-Death-Rates-Linked-to-Low-MMR-Vaccine-Rates-According-to-World-Organization.html

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/iowa-view/2021/03/14/mmr-vaccination-seems-associated-less-severe-covid-19/4561515001/

So who here has had a recent MMR2 vaccination series within the last 5-9 years and gotten COVID and if you did, were your symptoms mild?  Most adults born before the early to mid 70's did not receive the MMR series, but the research found that titer levels for people who've gotten the series as recently as 9 years had levels high enough for protection against COVID.  This isn't a shot series that most adults in the country get or if they did when they were a kid, they commonly don't get a booster.  It's usually just us in the military or people that travel a lot that get another series.

 

[pawnman]

57 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

I wish it were that easy. The pharmaceutical corporations have an evil track record of killing our own people.

 

I’m supposed to trustThe Atlantic? Next you’ll say Borderlands was good.

Your hard on for Alex Jones doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to tell a credible news source from blatant propaganda. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by pawnman

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Your hard on for Alex Jones doesn't inspire confidence in your ability to tell a credible news source from blatant propaganda. 

You should check out the first interview of him on Joe Rogan.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, dogfish78 said:

You should check out the first interview of him on Joe Rogan.

I'm with Pooter.  Entertaining guy, makes occasional good points, but he is in no way, shape, or form an serious, unbiased journalist.

I put him in the same bucket with Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow.  

[Guardian]

This would all be solved if the vaccinated would wear their masks and quit spreading the virus to the unvaccinated.

[M2]

Sorry, too bored/not bothered to read through all these posts.  I found all the rational thought I needed when Mike Rowe commented...

Quote

Mike – I read several months ago that you got the vaccine. I’m glad. But I’m also curious. You have a lot of people on this page who respect your opinion - many of whom I’d wager are unvaccinated. Have you encouraged them to follow your example? If not, what are you waiting for? As you surely know, Delta is raging. The sooner we’re all vaccinated, the sooner we can get back to normal!

Steve Manchin

Hi Steve

The short answer is no - I have not publicly encouraged anyone to get vaccinated. In fact, I have recently declined to participate in several PSA's designed to persuade people to get the jab. That’s not because I’m opposed to vaccines, obviously. Vaccines have saved more lives than any other advancement in the long history of medicine, and to your point, I got the shots the minute I was eligible. But I’m not a doctor, Steve, and even though I occasionally play one on TV, I’m not inclined to dispense medical advice to the people on this page.
 

True, I did appear in a few PSA’s early on, back when they assured us that locking down was essential to keeping our hospitals from being overrun. “Two weeks to flatten the curve!” Remember that one? That of course, turned out to be untrue, and I regret my role in helping perpetuate that particular falsehood. I also regret what I said during the first Zoom show to air in primetime. It was an episode of After the Catch, where I discussed the lockdowns with a few crab-boat captains. At one point, I looked into the camera lens on my computer and said, with uncharacteristic earnestness, “For the first time in a long time, it appears we’re all in the same boat.”
 

Well, I was wrong about that, too. We were not in the same boat, not then or now. We were in the same storm, but our boats were very different. Some prospered during the lockdowns and rode out the gale in yachts and pleasure crafts. Others floundered and weathered the storm in rowboats and dinghies. Some had no boat at all and hung on for dear life to whatever flotsam and jetsam they could find. Point is, I said some things I regret back then, and spoke too broadly to too many. Thus, the only thing I’ll say now regarding the vaccine, is that there is risk in everything we do, and there is risk in everything we don’t do. Thus, there is risk in getting vaccinated, and there is risk in not getting vaccinated. Obviously, I made my decision, but again, I’m not a doctor. Thus, I am not equipped to answer questions like, “But Mike, if the vaccine is so safe, why hasn’t the FDA approved it? Or, “But Mike, if the vaccine is so effective, why is the government now treating us all as if we’re unvaccinated?”
 

These are fair and reasonable questions, and I have no logical reply. Here in California if you’re inside, you must now wear a mask, vaccinated or not. What kind of message does that send?Yes, we have a new variant, and from what I’ve read, it’s highly contagious, but far less virulent – especially if you’re vaccinated. According to the CDC, just one 1 in 27,000 vaccinated people have contracted it. That means if you’re vaccinated, you’re more likely to get struck by lightning than contract COVID. And yet, people are once again calling for more lockdowns, more restrictions, and more compliance from those who already got their shots.
 

The fact is, millions of reasonable Americans have every right to feel confused and skeptical. Those people you refer to, Steve – the ones now telling us that we can “get back to normal just as soon as everyone is vaccinated” – those are the same people who said, “two weeks to flatten the curve!” Those are the same people who told us that masks were “useless” before they told us they were “critical.” Those are the same people who told us that a return to normalcy would occur just as soon as “the most vulnerable” among us were vaccinated. Then, just as soon as “half the population” was vaccinated. Then, just as soon as we achieved “herd immunity.” Those are the same people who told us they wouldn’t trust ANY vaccine developed under the last administration. Now, those very same people are belittling the skeptics!
 

If this were a Peanuts cartoon, those people would be Lucy, pulling away the football at the last moment while a nation full of Charlie Browns land flat on their collective back, over and over and over again. Those people you refer to - elected officials, journalists, and most disturbingly, more than a few medical experts - have moved the goalposts time and time again, while ignoring the same rules and restrictions they demand we all live by. They’re always certain, usually wrong, incapable of shame, and utterly void of humility. Is it any wonder millions find them unpersuasive?
 

I’m sorry, Steve, but even if I were an actual doctor, I wouldn’t know what to say to the skeptics on this page. But as a fake one, I’ll say this. Every single American who wants the vaccine has had the opportunity to get it – for free. Those who have declined will not be persuaded by the likes of me. At this point, I’m afraid the the government has but one course of sensible action - get the FDA on board, stat, and then, provide an honest, daily breakdown of just how quickly the virus is spreading among the unvaccinated, versus the vaccinated. No more threats, no more judgments, no more politics, no more celebrity-driven PSA’s, no more ham-fisted attempts at public shaming. Just a steady flow of verifiable data that definitively proves that the vast, undeniable, overwhelming majority of people who get this disease are unvaccinated.
 

In other words, give us the facts, admit your mistakes, try on a bit of humility, and stop treating the unvaccinated like the enemy.

Mike

PS Dirty Jobs, as the attached photo should prove, is coming back. New episodes probably start in October. The doctor will see you then...

 

[Day Man]

10 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

It'll be interesting to see how forthright these freedom-loving patriots are when their income is threatened.

[FLEA]

21 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

United mandating vaccines for employees:

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-airlines-e8eef8e8f11d4924b81768484e5401a1

Rumors are that Delta's not far behind. Multiple Fortune 500 companies are issuing mandates. And of course, DoD is about to cave, too.

 

It'll be interesting to see how forthright these freedom-loving patriots are when their income is threatened.

Well if your choice is starving or getting the vaccine you aren't really free to make a choice are you? 

[Scooter14]

M2 you beat me to that Mike Rowe post. Once again he shacks it.

[pawnman]

Just now, FLEA said:

Well if your choice is starving or getting the vaccine you aren't really free to make a choice are you? 

I suppose there's always welfare. 

After all, liberals love to say the same thing about jobs...