Airline job or return to mil

[hindsight2020]

The legal question here is going to be if a break in service would be required before the period of voluntary Active Duty would be covered by USERRA. It's already stipulated that folks can begin airline employment while on terminal leave, which implies a date of separation or retirement has already been approved by the DOD side.

Normally it's merely considered uncouth for someone to drop voluntary long term MLOA on an employer the second after hitting indoc. But this is a scenario where most peers are also getting laid off and the company is looking to shed payroll for a while, so it doesn't rise to the same level of indignation. If the guy had a separation date, the fact he never got a DD-214 in the process of dropping MLOA on the company seems moot.

[RogAir]

Are you sure you have a line number? I seem to remember it wasn’t official until you finished Indoc or IOE. As a strategy, don’t leave airline until you get a few months of max pay months under your belt. Your B fund contributions will accrue while you are on mil leave at the average pay you accrued prior to leaving. At least this is how it worked for me, your situation could be different. 

[Mox]

2 hours ago, RogAir said:

Are you sure you have a line number? I seem to remember it wasn’t official until you finished Indoc or IOE. As a strategy, don’t leave airline until you get a few months of max pay months under your belt. Your B fund contributions will accrue while you are on mil leave at the average pay you accrued prior to leaving. At least this is how it worked for me, your situation could be different. 

Yes, we get a seniority number at the start of indoc. Thanks for the info. 

[Smokin]

Here's some more info from a trusted source.  

https://www.esgr.mil/USERRA/Frequently-Asked-Questions

Specifically interesting in this case for you would be the documents required upon return:

DD214 - Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty;

Copy of duty orders prepared by the facility where the orders were fulfilled and carrying an endorsement indicating completion of the described service;

Letter from the commanding officer of a Personnel Support Activity or someone of comparable authority;

Certificate of completion from military training school;

Discharge certificate showing character of service;

Copy of extracts from payroll documents showing periods of service.

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This means you don't actually have to give them any information that would show you never left active duty.  You could simply get an MFR from your new commander or the commander of the MPF at your new base stating your service time.  You also only need to date the letter starting at or slightly before the day that they would call you back.  Given the current environment, I'm assuming that will be after your current no-kidding retirement date.  Similarly, your requal school orders and then PCS orders would also suffice and also likely be past the date you would have otherwise retired.  Thus there is no way for them to know you never had a break in service since that seems to be a hang up for them, even though that is never mentioned in the law.

[Mox]

3 hours ago, Smokin said:

Here's some more info from a trusted source.  

https://www.esgr.mil/USERRA/Frequently-Asked-Questions

Specifically interesting in this case for you would be the documents required upon return:

DD214 - Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty;

Copy of duty orders prepared by the facility where the orders were fulfilled and carrying an endorsement indicating completion of the described service;

Letter from the commanding officer of a Personnel Support Activity or someone of comparable authority;

Certificate of completion from military training school;

Discharge certificate showing character of service;

Copy of extracts from payroll documents showing periods of service.

------------

This means you don't actually have to give them any information that would show you never left active duty.  You could simply get an MFR from your new commander or the commander of the MPF at your new base stating your service time.  You also only need to date the letter starting at or slightly before the day that they would call you back.  Given the current environment, I'm assuming that will be after your current no-kidding retirement date.  Similarly, your requal school orders and then PCS orders would also suffice and also likely be past the date you would have otherwise retired.  Thus there is no way for them to know you never had a break in service since that seems to be a hang up for them, even though that is never mentioned in the law.

Thanks for the info. I’m definitely looking into it. 

[Guardian]

I’ve heard but don’t know personally that training is USERRA exempt. So if you did 6 month requal in C17, for example, you could go 5.5 years back in.

[Guardian]

Then there are USEDRA exempt jobs in guard and reserve that you could do to make it to 20

[hindsight2020]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

I’ve heard but don’t know personally that training is USERRA exempt. So if you did 6 month requal in C17, for example, you could go 5.5 years back in.

That's correct. Formal schools, including flying training (requal included provided it's implemented as a formal syllabus and not merely an in-house lookie loo) is Userra exempt.

[HuggyU2]

United went above and beyond when it came to supporting those of us that were working under USERRA rules.  I’m assuming they will do so again. 

I’ve got friends at other airlines that had a different experience. 

[brabus]

Make sure your training orders have the USERRA exempt statement on it, IAW the SAF USERRA memo. It matters in case down the road your employer says you’re out of 5 years (as in the above example of doing 5.5 yrs total). Even if you think you’ll never hit 5 years gone, you really don’t know for sure (reference Corona), so get it right while the orders are fresh. 

Of note, MEST (post-training course orders, commonly referred to as seasoning) are also exempt.

[the g-man]

On 3/30/2020 at 6:56 AM, brabus said:

Make sure your training orders have the USERRA exempt statement on it, IAW the SAF USERRA memo. It matters in case down the road your employer says you’re out of 5 years (as in the above example of doing 5.5 yrs total). Even if you think you’ll never hit 5 years gone, you really don’t know for sure (reference Corona), so get it right while the orders are fresh. 

Of note, MEST (post-training course orders, commonly referred to as seasoning) are also exempt.

In this case, the likelihood of this guy needing 5 years is low.  He has already applied for retirement.  He will likely apply for retirement again in 2-3 years when the PCS ADSC expires.

[brabus]

Concur, just putting it out there for anyone else who finds themselves in a USERRA situation. Even if you think you won’t need it, doesn’t hurt to have it done right. You know, for the next panic session that fucks up airline plans.