Where Did The Myth of Needing an Engineering Degree Come From?

[JohnClark]

Sorry, if this has been mentioned before. I did a search and nothing came up. Myself, like a good portion of people have heard the myth growing up that you need an engineering degree to become a military pilot. I know this isn't true but I didn't even though that until 5 or so years ago. Growing up I heard from enlisted personal, civilian pilots, teachers, guidance councilors, my parents, other civilians, etc.

I know most pilots probably have business degrees or something. I know Robin Olds had a history degree, I believe Dan Hampton who wrote Viper Pilot had a degree in Architecture and I read a while ago about an A-10 driver who was an 0-6 during Desert Storm that brought back his A-10 that was heavily damaged he had a degree in Forestry. 

So where did this myth come from?

[ryleypav]

Probably a few reasons. One, engineers are generally thought of as "smart" people (as a practicing engineer, I can tell you this is most definitely not true) and in general, people think you need to be extremely intelligent to fly an airplane. Not that you dont need to be smart, but simply flying isn't rocket science....unless your an astronaut, then it literally is. Engineers are also problem solvers by trade, which bodes well to flying aircraft in general and in an military environment I would guess as well. Not to toot my own horn, but acquiring and engineering degree not easy. I would say it is difficult for 90% of people that get them. There is a lot of complex information to learn while getting that degree and I think that bodes well to the mindset you need to have going into pilot training.  Bottom line, the degree you have doesn't mean you can fly a plane better than the guy next to you, but I think it does influence your train of thought, problem solving methodology, and critical thinking skills. All that said, you still need a good GPA. That is what is important. Cool, you got a degree in particle physics? Well that doesnt mean diddly if you graduated with a 2.5. A 4.0 in basket weaving is better than a low GPA in engineering. To add, I know a A-10 pilot and a F-15C pilot, both have degrees in Crop/Soil science or something like that. So it really doesn't matter.

[jonlbs]

17 minutes ago, JohnClark said:

So where did this myth come from?

Recruiters trying to thin out the herd of applicants. Never heard it from anyone but a recruiter. They probably get like 50 calls a day "hey I wanna be a pilot" so this is the quick way to weed a ton of quick to quitters out.

[DSG]

I'm guessing because you pretty much do need one for the non-rated side (or at least did for a long time).

[Seriously]

I've never heard anyone say it's a requirement. It most likely will help your application though. The advice generally given is you should pursue whatever degree you would want to have if you aren't able to become a pilot (for whatever reason). 

[nsplayr]

The vagaries of ROTC scholarships is a factor.

Depending on how competitive commissions are, ROTC tends to goes back and forth between, “Only tech majors get $$” to, “Do you have a pulse?” Obviously the only settings are idle and max AB.

A good friend of mine is a kick-ass Nav and majored in Art History and I am a Nav-now-RPA Pilot and majored in International Studies. Needless to say our year was more “have a pulse” and less “calculus required” haha. I know others only a few years later who had to choose between a tech major they didn’t really want to pursue and not getting a scholarship/commission.

[hindsight2020]

Origin story of my screen name. In short, don't do it, it's not worth it nor necessary. Let my life regret be your cautionary tale. 😄 

[HuggyU2]

47 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

The vagaries of ROTC scholarships is a factor.

Agree.  When I applied for an ROTC scholarship, all I could get was a "technical scholarship" and you had to be working to obtain a "technical degree", which was Engineering, Computer Science, and maybe something else I can't recall.  

There were "non-technical scholarships" but they were few and far between.  

[nunya]

My ROTC offering even specified “Electrical Engineering.”  Nah.

[FDNYOldGuy]

5 hours ago, jonlbs said:

Recruiters trying to thin out the herd of applicants. Never heard it from anyone but a recruiter. They probably get like 50 calls a day "hey I wanna be a pilot" so this is the quick way to weed a ton of quick to quitters out.

This one was me. I got told by the AD recruiter when I was graduating undergrad back in 2004 that I wouldn’t get a flying spot without a STEM degree. Recruiters never lie, of course, so I took it as the truth and chased after playing fireman.

About 15 years later, the turntables and here I am; an age-waivered ancient 2LT in UPT. 

[Swizzle]

It came from thin air, and biased preference. Simple economics, think recruitee supply and demand.

I know a guy who got a 4 yr AFROTC scholarship for a BA in Psychology, 2005 commission era. He DG'd 3 flying formal schools, so the system wasn't so abrasive to/of him. Seems an engineering degree isn't required to do well in flying courses. Perhaps pedigree is more important in later career, only time will tell ...or not.

My $0.02 on the real reason and answer to your question - perception. Its predominantly perceived that doctors and engineers are capable, responsible, and accountable.

Mother Blue wants the best she can get (the moment the board decides)[because most important AF decisions are boarded by a panel to mitigate bias], who wouldn't; so she accepts the best she can when she can, which in an ideal state, is the perceived best.

Biases are strong, but time can prove them wrong; sometimes a career's worth of time. Othertimes a generation-long or even an inter-war period. It all depends. What is your context?

Here's to moonshine and sunshine, and COVID for the opportunity! God rest those not so fortunate. Drink responsibly and to those at peace and those not, a 6' distance, if prudent.

BTW - what do any of us really know? Philosophically speaking that is...

[Smokin]

One word of caution from a guy who got a full ride ROTC scholarship out of high school for a liberal arts degree; you might think twice about putting all your eggs in the pilot basket.  It worked out great for me and I wouldn't change a thing.  Been flying fighters for 15 years now and not once have I wished I'd done a technical degree.  But if I'd had a medical issue, I'm not sure what I would have done for a living with my degree other than a career in the AF as intel or become a professor.  I'm sure some contractor gigs could have opened up, but looking back I basically put my entire life's income on red.  As I said, worked out great for me, but YMMV.

[JohnClark]

1 hour ago, Smokin said:

One word of caution from a guy who got a full ride ROTC scholarship out of high school for a liberal arts degree; you might think twice about putting all your eggs in the pilot basket.  It worked out great for me and I wouldn't change a thing.  Been flying fighters for 15 years now and not once have I wished I'd done a technical degree.  But if I'd had a medical issue, I'm not sure what I would have done for a living with my degree other than a career in the AF as intel or become a professor.  I'm sure some contractor gigs could have opened up, but looking back I basically put my entire life's income on red.  As I said, worked out great for me, but YMMV.

I'm actually a college senior in my last semester about to graduate with a degree in Criminology. I was non-rotc for a bunch of reasons but that's another thread. I'm 28 years old, I wanted to be a pilot when I was younger but I always struggled in math when I was young even with tutoring. I worked a bunch of odd jobs for years even one really cool one (automotive journalist) and after I was laid off from that job, I couldn't find another journalist position to save my life (even 6 years later) but anyway in 2014, I began watching a lot of documentaries about fighter pilots on youtube and began learning about the Guard/Reserve and realized I wanted to be a pilot. I also learned I didn't need an engineering degree. So I majored in Criminology and Minored in business. Due to the crappy economy of where I live it took me six years to finish college. Now I've been trying to take the AFOQT for almost a year and there was a waiting list everywhere I looked. I was suppose to take it in mid March but it was cancelled due to COVID. Now I'm not sure when I will be able to take the AFOQT.

[JohnClark]

7 hours ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

This one was me. I got told by the AD recruiter when I was graduating undergrad back in 2004 that I wouldn’t get a flying spot without a STEM degree. Recruiters never lie, of course, so I took it as the truth and chased after playing fireman.

About 15 years later, the turntables and here I am; an age-waivered ancient 2LT in UPT. 

I'm 28 about to finally finish my undergrad (took me six years). I didn't go to college at 18 because my high school math grades were subpar and was told by everyone I needed an engineering degree to be a pilot. .

[JohnClark]

6 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Here's to moonshine and sunshine, and COVID for the opportunity! God rest those not so fortunate. Drink responsibly and to those at peace and those not, a 6' distance, if prudent.

BTW - what do any of us really know? Philosophically speaking that is...

Hell yeah man. Here's to moonshine. I couldn't resist.

 

[raimius]

It is preferred, but not required.  
It is required for TPS.

Probably a lot of old data floating around that is assumed to be current.  "You need 20/20 vision to be a pilot."  Maybe true in WWII, but not now!

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, Smokin said:

One word of caution from a guy who got a full ride ROTC scholarship out of high school for a liberal arts degree; you might think twice about putting all your eggs in the pilot basket.  It worked out great for me and I wouldn't change a thing.  Been flying fighters for 15 years now and not once have I wished I'd done a technical degree.  But if I'd had a medical issue, I'm not sure what I would have done for a living with my degree other than a career in the AF as intel or become a professor.  I'm sure some contractor gigs could have opened up, but looking back I basically put my entire life's income on red.  As I said, worked out great for me, but YMMV.

I second this. I desperately wished I would have done a STEM degree as I want out of the AF but don't want to go airlines. 

Additionally, if the choice is STEM with scholarship or not STEM without scholarship, deeply consider taking the scholarship. Student loans will haunt you a long time and financially I've always felt I'm 5 years behind everyone else because I spent years dumping everything I had I to debt while they started investments. Money may not be important now but it will be later, especially nearing the end of your commitment when you want some safety net to explore getting out. 

[ryleypav]

7 hours ago, FLEA said:

I second this. I desperately wished I would have done a STEM degree as I want out of the AF but don't want to go airlines. 

Additionally, if the choice is STEM with scholarship or not STEM without scholarship, deeply consider taking the scholarship. Student loans will haunt you a long time and financially I've always felt I'm 5 years behind everyone else because I spent years dumping everything I had I to debt while they started investments. Money may not be important now but it will be later, especially nearing the end of your commitment when you want some safety net to explore getting out. 

This is one thing I definitely like to stress. You gotta have something to fall back on if aviation doesn't work out. I know that *knock on wood* with my STEM degree, I shouldn't ever have a difficult time getting a job. Student loans suck, so agreed. Get that scholarship money and get as much of it as you can. My biggest regret is not working harder to get more of it. 

[ryleypav]

18 hours ago, nunya said:

My ROTC offering even specified “Electrical Engineering.”  Nah.

You mean witchcraft.

[SocialD]

Have no idea where it came from.  I was told my whole life you had to be good at math and get a STEM type degree to be a fighter pilot.  HA...I showed them! 

 

Knowing what I know now, I wish I would have gotten an engineering degree and then worked on a business degree (MBA).  Though that's strictly for job opportunities outside of flying.

 

 

 

[Vito]

Perhaps this may help to give credence to the myth. When I first inquired about becoming a pilot around the summer of 1984, the recruiter had a worksheet with 7 criteria. Each one was worth 3 points, for a max of 21 points. IIRC some of the criteria were College GPA, Vision,  type of College degree, any previous flight time or a PPL and a few others I forgot.  I scored a 19, because my GPA was a 3.3 and  you needed 3.5 or above  to earn a “3,”,and my College degree wasn’t a BS (Science) but a BA, so I got a 2 instead of a 3 due to my lack of a Science/Engineering degree.  Because I scored above a certain threshold on this simple survey, He set me up for the AFOQT.  There was a minimum score  below which one could not qualify for a pilot slot.  
  

Edited April 9, 2020 by Vito

[disgruntledemployee]

Early 90's, it was that more scholarships were offered for enginerding, so that became my major.  Ended up with a degree in potions (chemistry), which is actual witchcraft.  Small irony, way too many of my classmates that started in enginerding became meteorology grads.  The seniors would even shout, "pre-met!" when any frosh would mention that they were majoring in EE/ME/Etc.

Out

[Hawg15]

10 hours ago, FLEA said:

I second this. I desperately wished I would have done a STEM degree as I want out of the AF but don't want to go airlines. 

That wouldn’t have been very helpful for you now. It’s a good plan B if you may not end up serving in the military when you graduate. Companies don’t want to hire someone for a technical job, who hasn’t been working in the field, with a 10-20 year out of date STEM degree if you haven’t gone back to school. It’ll check the box to be “qualified” to even apply, but it wont get you hired. The only thing your standard officer brings to the table is leadership skills for management type positions. The science and engineering fields are constantly updating and changing. If you don’t start working in them out of college you are already significantly behind.

[HU&W]

11 hours ago, raimius said:

It is preferred, but not required.  
It is required for TPS.

This. 
 

Many things in the AF are about increasing the pool of future eligibles. AF never wants to be in the situation where they have to select #1 of 1, or worse, waive requirements. 

[Guardian]

Never heard this myth ever. Not saying it isn’t out there. Just that I’ve heard a lot of rumors and this was never one.