Use or lose

[whatairspace]

So this is a PFA, but maybe somebody has some kind of experience with it.  When my wife popped out our kid last August, I had a bunch of use or lose, so I dropped three weeks of regular leave and held onto the baby leave.  Our intent was to use the baby leave to make a "here's the thing we made" tour to our families back in the states (we're OCONUS) and even had it planned out for LICWO next month.  Best laid plans and all, COVID happened.  Any chance to get the one year limit to use baby leave extended? 

Sounds like the personnel Bobs are being pretty liberal working with dude's leave PFAs, but I'm not sure I have a leg to stand on since my justification for keeping my "stay home to keep the little human alive" leave is the fact that I have to stay home.  

[FLEA]

42 minutes ago, whatairspace said:

So this is a PFA, but maybe somebody has some kind of experience with it.  When my wife popped out our kid last August, I had a bunch of use or lose, so I dropped three weeks of regular leave and held onto the baby leave.  Our intent was to use the baby leave to make a "here's the thing we made" tour to our families back in the states (we're OCONUS) and even had it planned out for LICWO next month.  Best laid plans and all, COVID happened.  Any chance to get the one year limit to use baby leave extended? 

Sounds like the personnel Bobs are being pretty liberal working with dude's leave PFAs, but I'm not sure I have a leg to stand on since my justification for keeping my "stay home to keep the little human alive" leave is the fact that I have to stay home.  

So there is no intent under the baby leave rules that specifies it is for staying at home and taking care of the small human. I would say using it to go see family, especially if you are OCONUS, is a very valid reason to take leave. Probably more valid than our 3 week trip around SE Asia. 

I would write an ETP and send it up. Worst they can do is say no. Then use the Heather Wilson rule. If they dont respond in 60 days, assume it's approved. I never heard Barrett say that rule didn't apply anymore. 

[M2]

 

[Guardian]

Just a really weird caveat that you can have what you have on 30 sept 2020 till 30 sept 2023.

[herkbier]

Not really, if you had a plan to take a long vacation or family reunion it may take a while to reschedule. It’s pretty awesome for anyone separating prior to December 2023–potentially 120 days and some change of terminal if you save it correctly. 

[Splash95]

Anyone here remember when (then-) Col Donovan was OTS/CC?

[LiquidSky]

2 hours ago, herkbier said:

Not really, if you had a plan to take a long vacation or family reunion it may take a while to reschedule. It’s pretty awesome for anyone separating prior to December 2023–potentially 120 days and some change of terminal if you save it correctly. 

The way I read it and what I think Guardian is pointing out is the excess # is going to be different for each individual.

I currently have 12.5 days of use/lose. In my Sept les that will show as 72.5 days of leave accumulated. I'm now authorized to retain up to that number until Sept 2023, but I can't go beyond it. For example I couldn't accumulate 102.5  days by not taking leave for all of FY21 as 102.5 is greater than what was reflected in my Sept 2020 les. 

Hopefully I'm wrong because finance will certainly it up if it's case-by-case. 

[otsap]

5 hours ago, Splash95 said:

Anyone here remember when (then-) Col Donovan was OTS/CC?

Yes!  I never would have caught that.  He took over while I was going through OTS -- vaguely remember his change of command.

[Mox]

8 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

The way I read it and what I think Guardian is pointing out is the excess # is going to be different for each individual.

I currently have 12.5 days of use/lose. In my Sept les that will show as 72.5 days of leave accumulated. I'm now authorized to retain up to that number until Sept 2023, but I can't go beyond it. For example I couldn't accumulate 102.5  days by not taking leave for all of FY21 as 102.5 is greater than what was reflected in my Sept 2020 les. 

Hopefully I'm wrong because finance will certainly it up if it's case-by-case. 

That’s the way I read it as well. Hope I’m wrong. 

[ViperStud]

Has anyone attempted to push MPLP leave (21 days of daddy leave) past the kiddo’s first birthday and, if so, what was the approval/waiver authority?

COVID shifts are preventing me from using it since the CC & DO are on opposing shifts and need to be there.  Leadership supports trying to push back the window, but (as if on purpose) the MPLP has precisely zero guidance for ETPs or waivers.  According to the memo, posted at the beginning of the leave reg, if you don’t take it by the kid’s first birthday it vanishes. 
 

ETA: finance already gave me blank stares so I’m waiting on a more in-depth answer than “Uhhh, I don’t know” from the FSS. I figure the bros may be more helpful. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by ViperStud

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Has anyone attempted to push MPLP leave (21 days of daddy leave) past the kiddo’s first birthday and, if so, what was the approval/waiver authority?

COVID shifts are preventing me from using it since the CC & DO are on opposing shifts and need to be there.  Leadership supports trying to push back the window, but (as if on purpose) the MPLP has precisely zero guidance for ETPs or waivers.  According to the memo, posted at the beginning of the leave reg, if you don’t take it by the kid’s first birthday it vanishes. 
 

ETA: finance already gave me blank stares so I’m waiting on a more in-depth answer than “Uhhh, I don’t know” from the FSS. I figure the bros may be more helpful. 

Heard the issue raised several times in my squadron but no resolution. Also, it doesn't say you can't use your parental leave to travel. Maybe a family vacation to Disney World or the little ones Grandparents is what you need the leave for. 

[nsplayr]

Good luck @ViperStud, hopefully someone will have some common sense and let you do what makes the most sense for your family while still accomplishing the mission.

When my daughter was born it was under the old policy (10 days of secondary caregiver leave) and OBTW it has to all be concurrent days and weekends also count. 🙄 So when my little one decided to show up to the world at 3pm on a Friday, that basically meant I just got the next M-F off and had to show up again the following work week...to fly standard flagpole training lines that could have been crewed by any ole jabroni in the squadron. Can't say that after only 4 days home from the hospital any of us had slept much at all or were thinking straight; if I had been more mature at the time I would have ORM'd my ass right out of those flights and told the shoe clerk scheduler to blow me but oh well, you live & learn.

Looking back at it, it's the little things like that about Active Duty that piss you off more than any of the big things most people might think (800+ days TDY, getting shot at, etc.)

People first and the mission will take care of itself. #GoGuard

 

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Good luck @ViperStud, hopefully someone will have some common sense and let you do what makes the most sense for your family while still accomplishing the mission.

When my daughter was born it was under the old policy (10 days of secondary caregiver leave) and OBTW it has to all be concurrent days and weekends also count. 🙄 So when my little one decided to show up to the world at 3pm on a Friday, that basically meant I just got the next M-F off and had to show up again the following work week...to fly standard flagpole training lines that could have been crewed by any ole jabroni in the squadron. Can't say that after only 4 days home from the hospital any of us had slept much at all or were thinking straight; if I had been more mature at the time I would have ORM'd my ass right out of those flights and told the shoe clerk scheduler to blow me but oh well, you live & learn.

Looking back at it, it's the little things like that about Active Duty that piss you off more than any of the big things most people might think (800+ days TDY, getting shot at, etc.)

People first and the mission will take care of itself. #GoGuard

 

I was peeved about the same thing but found out your commander has an option to extend you a 4 day pass on either side of the baby leave. Noone ever told me this including my commander who was doing it for other people in the squadron. It sort of irritated me because a full 2 weeks would have been a bit nicer. 

[ViperStud]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

People first and the mission will take care of itself. #GoGuarD

Amen. I’m a Guard AGR and I’m not too worried about the endgame - there are ways to give me some days off and meet the spirit of the reg while simultaneously helping me out more than MPLP would by making me take 21 straight. Fortunately I’ve got a solid OG who gets it.
 

That said, I’m a big believer of going to the boss with a solution - not just a problem. One of the cleanest solutions is just pushing this chunk of leave to the right when things are back to “normal” and using it for a vacation or to decompress. That ain’t happening in the next two months (her bday), cuz...COVID. It’s just - no one seems to know who to ask. Finance is always in everyone’s shit about leave but God forbid you have a question about leave...then you get crickets. 

[Homestar]

What are squadrons allowing for travel for Thanksgiving and Christmas this year?

Also, my September 2020 LES had zero use/lose but October had 22 days use/lose.  Under the special accrual rules it doesn't seem like I'll be able to carry those 22 over since they're FY2021 use/lose.  Does that check?

Also, is anyone really taking leave?

[Guardian]

How many days did you have showing for leave in sept les? I’m guessing it was 60 or more.

Did you take 8 days of leave in october?

Example. If you had 65 on sept 30 then if there is a way to check use or lose on 1 oct it would now show 30 for the upcoming year. If you took 8 days during October then it would bring it down to 22. Only way I see it coming to that conclusion.

[Homestar]

My balance on my Sep LES was 54. I took 2 days in October. October LES shows 22 days use/lose. I assume those 22 were days earned but not used in FY18?

Based on how I read that lawyered up special accrual memo you’d only get to carry use/lose that was listed on your September LES up to 120. Use/lose on the October LES has to be used in FY21. 

Seems like since leave really isn’t happening right now they’d extend that use/lose rule. Like I want to take 22 days off and stay in this miserable town. 
 

[Guardian]

Ah I got it now. So 54 on 30 sept. Then add 30 for FY 21. 84. Minus 2 days of leave is 82. Normal use or lose is 60 unless you fell under covid guidelines which since you didn’t have in excess of 60 on 30 sept you do not qualify for the covid leave stuff. So 82 is 22 more than 60. Unless I’m missing something.

[Homestar]

Yeah that check with how I was reading it. 

It’s going to be hard to find 22 days worth of something to do around here. Especially with the threat of ROM if I go anywhere. 

[Guardian]

I wouldn’t use one day of it unless you actually need or want to use it. You never know. They may extend the order due to ROM.