Long commutes to units?

[yervis]

I’ve searched the threads, but can’t find quite what I’m looking for.

My question is, what’s it like to live about nine hours or more from your unit? I got hired at a unit in one state, but have a great civilian career opportunity in another state. Also, the unit does allow out of state commuters. Serving the unit comes first and that’s the priority, but I’d like to have a loose idea of a “plan” for the coming civilian side of my life in the upcoming years after training.

For those of you who have a far commute to the unit, or have knowledge of others who do, what’s it like? I’m talking about in the ways of weather, stress, work/life balance, finances. Is it not too bad for 20 years, or would it be miserable after awhile even if it’s once a month? Would commuting via airline and rental car be better, or would driving? Is commuting for civilian airline pilots easier because they can jumpseat compared to non-airline pilots who commute via airline?

[nunya]

I made the jumpseat commute to a unit 9 hours away for 6 months and gave up.  I don’t think it’s long-term realistic, especially starting out. 
 

If the unit is #1, move to your unit city and figure out the civilian job there.

 Edit: I’m assuming you’re flying since you’re on a pilot board, in which case once a month is also unrealistic unless that’s once for many days.

Edited April 16, 2020 by nunya

[EvilEagle]

What Nunya said.  One trip a month to your ANG unit is a pipe dream in most communities.  

[SocialD]

Sure it could be done, but it would be painful and I wouldn't recommend it.  Also, after training the Guard isn't even priority #1.  As a part-timer it isn't even number 2 really.  Family, civilian job, then Guard.  Keep that in mind as you go through your career.  

[yervis]

@nunya Correct; I was selected for a pilot slot. I'm expecting the typical 5 ~ 6 days a month at the unit [since that's what I have researched is normal for a new guy], but I'll be ready for however many days is expected of me if more are needed.

@nunya @EvilEagle So the one trip a month to a typical unit in a consecutive stretch of 5 ~ 6 days is unrealistic? I imagine this is due to aircraft availability for maintenance [among other reasons]? Even if a consecutive stretch isn't going to happen, I'm already less than two hours from the unit so no worries on my part for driving. I'll shift gears and apply for a civilian career locally.

@SocialD You bring a good point. The ol' adage of just because you can, doesn't mean you should. About the priority level, it definitely has been odd for me throughout this process to come to grips with how family centered the units I've visited and been hired by are. I've been working for years at earning a slot, thinking along the way they'd want your commitment to the unit prioritized above all else indefinitely. Once I started meeting pilots of these units in person I quickly realized how supportive they are of a family/civilian life, which is incredible considering they've already been gracious enough by selecting me.

Edited April 27, 2020 by yervis

[EvilEagle]

It's unrealistic in the fighter world - and downright impossible as a new guy.  Thankfully for us (fighters) you finish the pipeline and get 3 years of full time orders.  If a pilot is really good, he/she can handle being a part timer and not become a safety limfac at that point.  Each unit is different, but in my experience you just can't make it happen one week a month - too many things going against it.  

[yervis]

@EvilEagle Understood. Having to break up the days spent at the unit into chunks throughout the month is more than a fair trade-off for the ability to fly fighters [which is what I've been hired for]. I'm stoked to get the three years of full-time seasoning orders once out of the pipeline too [if the budget allows, as my unit described]. The Reserve side seemed exponentially better than Active Duty to begin with, but once I learned about the full-time seasoning orders to follow the pipeline I couldn't believe it. A real golden ticket opportunity.

[GreenArc]

Just a bump here, as we’ve had this topic come up in the Upcoming Boards thread, and I felt this was a great place to ask instead of starting a new thread:

For those who have commuted beyond the local area of their unit—from an hour or more out, let’s say—what would be the furthest you’d consider to be reasonable from a unit to remain engaged, current, etc? Would the amount of time be relative to the mode of transportation (flying vs driving)?

It seems a lot of this is relative: the airframe, mission, domestic situation, employment situation, being a new vs. already seasoned guy, etc.; I totally get that there’s not gonna be some one-size-fits-all answer. I’d love any additional thoughts, experiences, or guidance on what anyone may find as a “reasonable upper limit” in terms of time for travel to your Guard/Reserve Unit—especially coming out of UFT. The answer may just be, “don’t try to get cute, move there”, and that’s completely fair. It would just be cool to learn from folks who’ve done this to help better inform the radius of units we shoot for if there’s not a viable option locally.

I also want to reiterate how much I appreciate what happens on this board everyday, especially all the time dedicated to helping hopefuls like myself. Cannot say thank you enough!

[brabus]

You’re going to have to move to the unit location for at least seasoning, bare minimum. The length of seasoning and expectations afterwards likely differs a lot depending on airframe. At least with fighters, you need to be at the unit for around 5 days per month, and that doesn’t take into account days you burn not accomplishing required training due to weather, broken jets, etc. That is to say you’ll experience months where more than 5 days are required to get all the training done. Sure some guys make unique situations happen (for a while anyways), but there’s a reason the majority of fighter guys live at least within a couple hours, most sub-hour would be my guess. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by brabus

[GreenArc]

16 hours ago, brabus said:

You’re going to have to move to the unit location for at least seasoning, bare minimum. The length of seasoning and expectations afterwards likely differs a lot depending on airframe. At least with fighters, you need to be at the unit for around 5 days per month, and that doesn’t take into account days you burn not accomplishing required training due to weather, broken jets, etc. That is to say you’ll experience months where more than 5 days are required to get all the training done. Sure some guys make unique situations happen (for a while anyways), but there’s a reason the majority of fighter guys live at least within a couple hours, most sub-hour would be my guess. 

Thanks a ton, @brabus; that all makes perfect sense. And I didn't really even consider the "Murphy's Law" factors beyond those that could affect a commute, but that hit you actually doing your job once you're there: weather, MX, etc. Definitely gives me some great color and insight. Thank you!

[CDAWG]

For those of you that do the long commute. What do you do for lodging and transportation? I’m eventually moving to my unit but until I do I have to fly to get there. Do y’all rent a room from a buddy and have a commuter car there? I’m considering doing just that until I move.

 

 

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[nsplayr]

2 minutes ago, CDAWG said:

For those of you that do the long commute. What do you do for lodging and transportation? I’m eventually moving to my unit but until I do I have to fly to get there. Do y’all rent a room from a buddy and have a commuter car there? I’m considering doing just that until I move.

I did the long commute & flew to my unit for a couple of years. They paid lodging at a local hotel when I'd come in for drill, so that was covered. The first couple of times I'd just rent a car but trying to bomb in late Friday night made that kinda non-viable. I eventually bought a beater car, drove it there once (11 hours), and just left it parked on base. Would get an Uber from the airport when I landed, pick up my car, and hit the hotel.

Not the best lifestyle, hope your time doing it is short!

[brabus]

All opinion and not supported by regs…

I say it depends on what deal the unit makes with you. Can you do all of your training in one or two  multi-day trips (e.g. 1-2 round trip drives) per month? You can have hotels paid for on UTA/AT days, but also have to factor in you won’t get a hotel if you have days that are ATP only. If you can do that, I’d call it doable. If you can’t do that and it’s going to be more frequent trips per month, then I doubt it’ll work long term and I wouldn’t blame the unit for passing on you.

[CharlieHotel47]

I am a commuter about 9 hrs away…. Which I would not recommend to young guys fresh out of UPT. 3 hrs sounds very doable. For commuters at my unit, if I show up for anything, anything at all, I am expected to get a room. AFTPs, drills, orders. There isn’t any base lodging at my location so whenever I’m on order (not AFTPs or UTAs), I get lodging and per diem.

Other units might work different deals and overall experiences vary.


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[BashiChuni]

whatever you do....avoid double commuting

[SocialD]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:49 AM, Fred_breaker said:

Thread bump.

I'm an active duty pilot planning on making the guard/res switch in the next couple years. The location the wife and I want to live in would require what I'm considering to be a longer but reasonable driving commute (~3 hours) to any unit that would hire me. Alternatively there's a fighter unit a very short way away but I'm a heavy driver and T-1 trained and don't think I should consider working there as a realistic opportunity.

A lot of comments I'm seeing here are how a "long" commute is difficult at first as a "new guy", but as someone not off-the-street and potentially already qualified in the airplane, is this really a factor? Would you consider a 3 hour drive to be an unreasonable or strenuous commute long term? For a civilian job I'm certainly looking to fly, either airlines or fractionals.

TIA

 

 

If you're in an airframe that allows you to show up 1 or 2 days a month, then I'd think 3 hours is relatively easy.  If the unit requires 4-8 days/month (I've heard of Reserve squadron that requires 8 days...crazy!), I'd say you're in for a lot of pain.  Some units have a mileage limit, but I'd guess that a vast majority do not.  My squadron has no such rules but we also only have a 2 pilots who live more than about 10 miles from base.  The few times in the past that we had guys who lived ~3 hours, they were almost always a problem child and eventually moved on...but we require 4 days/month.  All went to heavies or non-flying gigs.

 

 

12 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

For commuters at my unit, if I show up for anything, anything at all, I am expected to get a room. AFTPs, drills, orders. There isn’t any base lodging at my location so whenever I’m on order (not AFTPs or UTAs), I get lodging and per diem.

 

 

Wait, what...our squadron doesn't get you a hotel for UTA days?  I didn't even realize that was a thing or even legal...crazy!  

 

 

11 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

whatever you do....avoid double commuting

 

 

This!  I'd even go as far as to say I'd rather do a local NON-flying gig, rather than force myself into a double commute.  It's something to consider if you're OK with not flying in the military anymore and you're just trying to get across the 20 year finish line.  You could always reach out to the local fighter unit and see if they're willing to hire a T-1 grad (not likely, but also not unheard of)...or just see if they have any officer gigs that would be an easy way to finish your 20.  But for 3 hours drive, I'd certainly go there if I could fly and only have to do the drive once a month.

[Yeti_72]

Many heavy guys at my unit commute from all over the country. They will reimburse up to $500 per month in travel expenses. we have folks as far as Alaska. 

[cowdog]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:53 PM, SocialD said:

 

 

If you're in an airframe that allows you to show up 1 or 2 days a month, then I'd think 3 hours is relatively easy.  If the unit requires 4-8 days/month (I've heard of Reserve squadron that requires 8 days...crazy!), I'd say you're in for a lot of pain.  Some units have a mileage limit, but I'd guess that a vast majority do not.  My squadron has no such rules but we also only have a 2 pilots who live more than about 10 miles from base.  The few times in the past that we had guys who lived ~3 hours, they were almost always a problem child and eventually moved on...but we require 4 days/month.  All went to heavies or non-flying gigs.

 

 

 

 

Wait, what...our squadron doesn't get you a hotel for UTA days?  I didn't even realize that was a thing or even legal...crazy!  

 

 

 

 

This!  I'd even go as far as to say I'd rather do a local NON-flying gig, rather than force myself into a double commute.  It's something to consider if you're OK with not flying in the military anymore and you're just trying to get across the 20 year finish line.  You could always reach out to the local fighter unit and see if they're willing to hire a T-1 grad (not likely, but also not unheard of)...or just see if they have any officer gigs that would be an easy way to finish your 20.  But for 3 hours drive, I'd certainly go there if I could fly and only have to do the drive once a month.

I am a T-1 grad just finishing up PIQ for my reserve squadron that is closing.  The thought crossed my mind about reaching out to a fighter unit to see if they're willing to hire me as a free agent and send me through additional training. I understand it's a pretty steep ask - where have you heard of it being done before?  Also, what factors would be in my favor to have serious consideration? I don't want to waste their time or mine if it's unrealistic.

[CharlieHotel47]

4 hours ago, Yeti_72 said:

Many heavy guys at my unit commute from all over the country. They will reimburse up to $500 per month in travel expenses. we have folks as far as Alaska. 

Are you guard or reserves? is this a unit thing or is there JRT out there for it... I am also assuming that the reimberment is for your travel for TEPs and RUTAS.

 

[herkbier]

The $500 reimbursement thing is a Reserves deal, not offered by any ANGs to my knowledge. Which sucks, would be real nice if the ANG had it. 
 

It’s for any IDT travel. I think it’s up to 12x $500 trips a year, not necessarily limited to once a month. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by herkbier

[Flyman]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, herkbier said:

The $500 reimbursement thing is a Reserves deal, not offered by any ANGs to my knowledge. Which sucks, would be real nice if the ANG had it. 
 

It’s for any IDT travel. I think it’s up to 12x $500 trips a year, not necessarily limited to once a month. 

Is that including hotels?

[CharlieHotel47]

MSANG pays for our hotel every time we come down. Order, AFTPs, drills etc you are expected to get lodging. For AFTPs and Drills, since thats coming out of state funding, sometimes you get unlucky and have to crash at the comfort inn or a la Quinta.. which kinda sucks. but its better than nothing

[herkbier]

7 hours ago, Flyman said:

Is that including hotels?

The $500 is for travel only, airfare. Mileage, etc. can’t be used for hotels or a rental. My reserve unit always covered the hotel, whether I was on AT or IDT. My guard unit does not appear to do so.. from what I understand, they will cover AT and UTA, but not AFTP or RUTAs. I’m still new though.

[BashiChuni]

this is just me, but i would NEVER pay to go to my unit. if that was the deal i'd either A. move (most of the time not practical) or B. find a new unit closer.

[CharlieHotel47]

unfortunately, I have to pay for my own travel to do TEP or drill. Lodging is on the unit. I am not an airline guy and I live 9 hrs away. Its a kick in the balls when I have to do it on my own dime and time... but moving units, learning a new aircraft, community and how to scam the system would take some work at first. Currently, at my unit I somewhat do what I want... come and go as I please because I am a part-time guy. Got some admin stuff to do? sounds like a job for a full-timer. Got a 5-day trip to Hawaii for the sim? I am your guy. Got a 4-day trip to the Deid min turning... sounds like a task for a full-timer. 

Still its a love-hate relationship and a kick in the balls having to travel on my own dime. The best thing I can do is run TEPs and Drills together as much as I can to make it be worth my time and dime on travel.