ANG Initial Training Title 10/ Title 32

[John Doe]

Hey all,

 

I have been doing a ton of research, but could not find a clear answer. I am a current Federal Government employee working for the FAA. I have been applying to Guard and Reserve boards.

 

If I get a job with the USAF reserves, my federal pension (FERS) with the FAA continues to accrue and build as if I never left while in USAF training. In addition, my military pension will build at the same time (as long as it is Title 10), and thus I can "double dip" and build two pensions for the same time period simultaneously  (https://www.fedsmith.com/2013/04/14/retired-reservists-can-legally-double-dip/).

 

I am also looking at the ANG. Does anyone know for sure if your initial training from OTS to UPT to B-School to Seasoning falls under Title 10 or Title 32 at a guard unit? And does anyone know where I can find this in writing to show my employer? I read both Title 10 and 32 statues, and both seem to cover training which makes it more confusing.

 

I will take any flying job I can get, but if I go reserve/title 10 I will have an extra $5,000 a year on my FERS pension just from double dipping during the time I will be at OTS through seasoning time period. If I start collecting at 60 and live to 85, that will be a $125,000 dollar difference over my lifetime.

 

The money by far isn’t the most important thing, and if i can’t double dip I will still apply to guard boards as well anyway,  but it would be nice to know. If all things were equal, I would tend to lean more toward the reserves if my ANG initial training was all under title 32 as it is a significant amount of time.

 

Thank you for your help

 

[brabus]

Your mil pension time builds whether 32 or 10, with some minor caveats when talking AD 20 yr retirement vs. ANG/AFRES 20 yr retirement (main difference is when you start collecting). What makes you think your fed service time won’t accrue when on orders? Why do you think it matters whether ANG or AFRES? I was only in FERS for a little over a year, but I continued to accrue fed service time while on 32 orders during that time period. 

[bcuziknow]

8 hours ago, John Doe said:

Hey all,

I  will take any flying job I can get, but if I go reserve/title 10 I will have an extra $5,000 a year on my FERS pension just from double dipping during the time I will be at OTS through seasoning time period. If I start collecting at 60 and live to 85, that will be a $125,000 dollar difference over my lifetime.

 

The money by far isn’t the most important thing, and if i can’t double dip I will still apply to guard boards as well anyway,  but it would be nice to know. If all things were equal, I would tend to lean more toward the reserves if my ANG initial training was all under title 32 as it is a significant amount of time.

 

Thank you for your help

 

Sorta correct - a few more variables than you make it sound, but its a plan.  For starters, the $5k/yr $125,000 "double dip" theory isn't free.  You do have to buy back the FERS time you missed to get retirement monies for it (currently at a rate of 3% mil earnings).  It accrues interest if not paid back within 3 yrs/ - of course many already know you cannot collect a AD ret (7200 pnts) and combine that time with a FERS retirement - so, there is an ART (no pun intended) to maximizing the govt checks...but when done correctly, you can safely retire well above 6 figures.  bcuziknow….;)

[John Doe]

4 hours ago, PilotCandidate said:

I believe Guard will put you on Title 10.
 

This is a screenshot from my actual UPT orders for the Guard. 

That is exactly what I needed thank you!

[John Doe]

3 hours ago, brabus said:

Your mil pension time builds whether 32 or 10, with some minor caveats when talking AD 20 yr retirement vs. ANG/AFRES 20 yr retirement (main difference is when you start collecting). What makes you think your fed service time won’t accrue when on orders? Why do you think it matters whether ANG or AFRES? I was only in FERS for a little over a year, but I continued to accrue fed service time while on 32 orders during that time period. 

So my HR department referred me to OPM who sent me this:

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/military-retired-pay/
 

“You cannot receive credit for any military service in your FERS retirement computation, if you are receiving military retired pay, unless you were awarded the retired pay:

- Due to a service-connected disability either incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States or caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war, or

-Under the provisions of Chapter 1223, Title 10, U.S.C. (pertaining to retirement from a reserve component of the Armed Forces).”

 

I have no idea why they have a loophole for Title 10 work (my guess is it is designed to help fed employee/reservist who get called up for deployments).

If I can also get this for Title 32 as well even better

 

[John Doe]

1 hour ago, bcuziknow said:

Sorta correct - a few more variables than you make it sound, but its a plan.  For starters, the $5k/yr $125,000 "double dip" theory isn't free.  You do have to buy back the FERS time you missed to get retirement monies for it (currently at a rate of 3% mil earnings).  It accrues interest if not paid back within 3 yrs/ - of course many already know you cannot collect a AD ret (7200 pnts) and combine that time with a FERS retirement - so, there is an ART (no pun intended) to maximizing the govt checks...but when done correctly, you can safely retire well above 6 figures.  bcuziknow….;)

That is great! So when I return to my fed job after seasoning, I just write a check for my missed FERS pension contribution fees and then the mil time is then added in to my FERS time? Which is completely separated from my military pension I guess then 

[brabus]

4 hours ago, John Doe said:

So my HR department referred me to OPM who sent me this:

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/fers-information/military-retired-pay/
 

“You cannot receive credit for any military service in your FERS retirement computation, if you are receiving military retired pay, unless you were awarded the retired pay:

- Due to a service-connected disability either incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States or caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war, or

-Under the provisions of Chapter 1223, Title 10, U.S.C. (pertaining to retirement from a reserve component of the Armed Forces).”

 

I have no idea why they have a loophole for Title 10 work (my guess is it is designed to help fed employee/reservist who get called up for deployments).

If I can also get this for Title 32 as well even better

 

That’s only saying you don’t get credit at the same time you’re receiving mil retirement pay, which doesn’t apply to you. While you’re away on USERRA, your FERS service years should continue to accrue. An example of the above would be you do 20 years in the AF, then retire from there and continue working your fed job. At that point you don’t receive additional mil-time-served credit towards your FERS retirement.

[John Doe]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:47 PM, brabus said:

That’s only saying you don’t get credit at the same time you’re receiving mil retirement pay, which doesn’t apply to you. While you’re away on USERRA, your FERS service years should continue to accrue. An example of the above would be you do 20 years in the AF, then retire from there and continue working your fed job. At that point you don’t receive additional mil-time-served credit towards your FERS retirement.

Oh okay I understand it now. That makes a lot of sense. But thanks for explaining it!