PPL

[Guest Brant Watson]

I have read that it is highly recommended to have your PPL when applying to a squadron. Is there any possibility at all of getting accepted without any flight experience whatsoever? I figured their had to be another way since some people can not afford to just go out and drop $7000-$8000 for their private?

[Jester203]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:06 AM, Guest Brant Watson said:

I have read that it is highly recommended to have your PPL when applying to a squadron. Is there any possibility at all of getting accepted without any flight experience whatsoever? I figured their had to be another way since some people can not afford to just go out and drop $7000-$8000 for their private?

 

Heh. Around here more like $15,000. As to your question, I'd say it depends on the unit but all the fighter units and fighter pilots I've come across in my own application journey are pretty clear that a PPL is effectively a requirement. Think about it as showing that you are, in fact, passionate about aviation and truly want to be a pilot.

[Tarawa565]

Anything is possible - but I'll add the following from my experience (Guard fighter hire so n=1):

1) With any job, anything is possible. Somebody totally unqualified is working in an investment banking firm in NYC - their dad also probably knows the CEO. Your objective as an applicant is to make yourself as competitive as possible. Without a PPL, all else being equal, you lose to the person with the PPL. That being said, same goes for the PPL vs the CFII. But, as you know, all else is not always equal. Think about your story, what you bring to the table, what makes you unique, and make the best version of yourself. I know some folks who got picked up by heavy units with no PPL - haven't yet met anyone without any hours (I think they all were post solo), but I'm sure someone is out there. All the fighter folks I know had at least a PPL, but a lot of us didn't have more than 50/60 hours. 

2) Everyone's life situation is different with it comes to affording a PPL. I gambled traded stock and worked to pay for mine (pre-COVID market). Other people are out pumping gas at the FBO. Somebody is doing the math of working a McDonalds 20 hours a week as a second job making $10/hr to make an extra $10k that year so next year they can get their PPL. If you're serious about getting your PPL, think about the solution space available to you to make it happen. But, if the price tag is still prohibitive, remember that aviation is a funny community - I know a couple people who were errand boys at a local airport and paid for gas in exchange for flight time and instruction. Their PPL cost much less than $10k. 

[Init2]

I was hired with a tanker unit and I had my ppl prior to applying. However, it was not required but heavily encouraged that you had at least soloed. My advice would be to start taking lessons and just steadily make progress.

The worst thing that I see are people who interview and don't get hired, and then a year later when they return again they have made no progress towards their goals. 

I hope the main takeaway here is to just always be progressing. 

[DifferentViper]

As another data point, I got hired at tankers with 20 hours. At the interview I had 10 and they wanted more so I borrowed money from my parents to get the next 10 as quickly as possible. Good advice above.

[ryleypav]

Agree with all the above. My future unit did not require it on paper, but it was basically an unwritten requirement. Even if you cant afford the whole license, get some time under your belt. Showing some initiative to get there will go a long way. The application I sent in that eventually led to the interview I got hired, I had mentioned that since last interviewing, I attained my PPL and that I was going to have 100 by the time of the interview. They asked if I accomplished that, and I had. Point is, they want to see the drive and ambition towards aviation. Its kind of a gamble hiring a guy who doesnt have any flight hours (not assuming you dont) because they may end up getting to pilot training only to find out they dont actually like flying. 

[JohnClark]

I know the feeling OP. The cost of living keeps skyrocketing and I think like the poster said above the cost to get a PPL is now closer to $10K to $15K rather than $5K to $8K most people state on forums (A lot of these people got their PPLs 5 to 15 years ago or they are luckily that they live in a low cost area).

Like you I've been underemployed for a long time. I had a great job back in 2012 to 2015 and I regret not getting  a PPL then. I managed to land two full time work from home jobs back in January (still have them but hours were cut due to COVID-19) and was able to take 6 lessons in February/March. COVD-19 happened and my instructor was laid off. I'm hoping he can get rehired when this lockdown finally ends. I'm hoping around July I can start taking lessons again.

As for advice. The only advice I can give is keep looking for better employment. I know this is way easier said then done and I'm sure there are days when you feel like life is unfair and you want to punch a whole in your wall. Believe me, I've been there. But keep trying.

Sadly the hard part about my area is that it rains a lot, so none of the FBOs/Airports are really busy and most all year around operate with skeleton crews and are rarely hiring. (I applied multiple times). It also means frequent lessons cancellations.

[PlanePhlyer]

As stated on 690 responses to this question...get it, don’t get it. If you want to be a military pilot that bad you’ll find a way. If I’m sitting on the board and screening applicants and you haven’t even attempted flying, then you probably aren’t getting a nod to even interview. Get two jobs, find a way to get it. Things are hard, but that makes them worth it. 

[Prayforwaves321]

On 5/24/2020 at 11:00 PM, Tarawa565 said:

Anything is possible - but I'll add the following from my experience (Guard fighter hire so n=1):

1) With any job, anything is possible. Somebody totally unqualified is working in an investment banking firm in NYC - their dad also probably knows the CEO. Your objective as an applicant is to make yourself as competitive as possible. Without a PPL, all else being equal, you lose to the person with the PPL. That being said, same goes for the PPL vs the CFII. But, as you know, all else is not always equal. Think about your story, what you bring to the table, what makes you unique, and make the best version of yourself. I know some folks who got picked up by heavy units with no PPL - haven't yet met anyone without any hours (I think they all were post solo), but I'm sure someone is out there. All the fighter folks I know had at least a PPL, but a lot of us didn't have more than 50/60 hours. 

I have my CFI and Im currently working on my CFII MEI add ons. Would that help offset any thing like mediocre test scores? I understand that the boards may use the whole person concept but would extra pilot certificates help offset a weak area in an application? Would it be best to try the unsponsored route?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Prayforwaves321

[wacky]

I can't speak to the unsponsored route, but having  dual given (via your CFI) counts in your total flight time which is part of the PCSM.

[SocialD]

I ran our UPT hiring board a year or two and have sat on 5 or 6 boards total.  I can tell you, at least at my squadron, we don't put much emphasis on flying time.  We used to require a Private but then we realized how ridiculously expensive it has gotten, so no we just require you to have soloed.  After that, we really don't care much.  Again, this is just one squadron...every unit has their own thing.  Best of luck!