ANG UPT Age Waiver & AFI References

[GreenArc]

Please forgive me if I've missed something via search--I've tried numerous queries here, on other similar sites, ePubs, and generally via Google, but can't seem to find anything official that points to UPT age waiver availability for those over 33, and in my scenario, specifically re: an ANG UPT slot.

In short, I'm working with a very cool and really genuine ANG recruiter of a non-fighter unit who's been super helpful in our initial convos, but I feel we may have some wires crossed re: UPT age waivers. Essentially, they told me that active duty cut-off age for UPT is 30, but on the AD site it says "Becoming an Air Force Pilot requires you to meet strict physical, medical, vision and academic requirements. Applicants must achieve qualifying scores on the AFOQT exam, meet all requirements and pass a selection board prior to age 33". Obviously, that's not relevant to me at all--they just happened to mention it--but with that seeming to be off, it makes think there's perhaps there's just overall confusion on waivers.

More specifically for my situation, I'm also being told that for the ANG you have to have started UPT by your 33rd birthday, and that waivers with the ANG for UPT aren't able to be used to bypass that. In trying to confirm that, this site notes that "if an interested applicant can not meet the age criteria, an age waiver up to age of 35 years old is possible, otherwise an exception to policy is required. These are considered on a case-by-case basis. Waiver applications can be found in the AFI 36-2205" That AFI (apparently now AETCI 36-2605 per ePubs) doesn't seem to specifically call out anything about age, though...? Or perhaps the ANG falls under different guidelines?

I'm trying to walk the fine-line here of "kicking down the door to your dreams/don't take no for an answer" and not being the know-it-all punk old guy who pesters a recruiter to the point they're like, "screw this guy, he's difficult and questioning everything--plus his waiver is more work for me/us--so I'm done. Later bro." They've got a tough job as it is, and the age issue is my problem, not their's--I get that 100%--but I also don't want to give up on a potential opportunity if there's simply genuine confusion that's the blocker that could be cleared up relatively easily.

I can't seem to find an AFI/ePub doc that I can point to as a reference to that being an option. I've had several other ANG units tell me that age waivers are indeed possible with the ANG for UPT, and obviously we have several recent examples of that on this board as data points, too. Is there a specific ANG ePub-/AFI-type document that can be used for reference to confirm the official policy, or a place to find that on a state-by-state basis?

If they come back and tell me, "Sorry, our squadron just doesn't want to consider age waivers," totally cool--I mean, sucks for me, but I get why they'd go that route. But right now, I'm being told it's simply not a thing at all for ANG UPT applicants, and I feel like maybe there's just some confusion to tactfully work through, and I'd love to be able to clear that up before re-engaging.

A very, very sincere thank you for any help/guidance/wisdom you can provide. 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by GreenArc

[mb1685]

The document I've attached is the most recent MFR I've seen regarding the age limit. I found it in the AFRC UFT Application Guide, but since the document is from USAF HQ, I believe it applies to AD + Guard + Reserve.

What I find fairly interesting is that this MFR refers only to "the date as specified in the Undergraduate Flying Training Selection Board Announcement message" as the cutoff. AFI 36-2105 used that language to refer to a cutoff for AD boards, but it also had an additional sentence that delineated the cutoff for Guard and Reserve as the UPT start date. If that omission in this MFR isn't a mistake, then it seems like the new rule across the board is just "be selected by age 33" rather than "start UPT by age 33".

As for age waivers/ETPs not being a thing, that's nonsense. Search around here and you'll definitely find cases where they've happened for Guard/Reserve selects.

21 - HAF_A1P Memo.pdf

Edited May 28, 2020 by mb1685

[Splash95]

AFI 36-2105 is your friend. To my knowledge there's no "age waiver" per se; you'll have to request an Exception to Policy (ETP) if above the age limit. Reference chapters 3 and 5 of that reg. I'm fairly familiar with the ETP process as I successfully worked my way through it last year. You're welcome to PM me if you have questions.

[FDNYOldGuy]

5 hours ago, GreenArc said:

I'm trying to walk the fine-line here of "kicking down the door to your dreams/don't take no for an answer" and not being the know-it-all punk old guy who pesters a recruiter to the point they're like, "screw this guy, he's difficult and questioning everything--plus his waiver is more work for me/us--so I'm done. Later bro."

Dude, the AFI above gets the point, but keep this mentality and don’t stop pushing. Granted, ANG can be a little different beast and I’ve heard of bumps in the road that don’t make sense per AFIs, but ETPs (waivers) are 100% possible. You just need a unit (eg, pilots/commanders of the squadron/wing) to write it up and push the signatures. The recruiter will have little to do with the actual waiver.

Source: Non-prior service Reservist that recently graduated UPT and pinned on wings at 38...and my waiver went through in 2018 when the limit was still 30 and I was 36. It’s entirely possible. 

[GreenArc]

@mb1685 @Splash95 Thank you both so much for this; this is a tremendous help and exactly what I needed. I'm not sure how AFI 36-2105 managed to elude me, but again, truly appreciate both of you jumping in and helping a brother out.

And just for posterity and others who may be in the same boat (and please let any of the gurus correct me if I'm wrong here):

1. It seems like "age waiver" is a bit of a more "colloquial" in nature, and if you want an "age waiver", what you're actually after is an Exception to Policy (ETP)

2. UFT Eligibility Requirements and ETP guidance can be found here in AFI 36-2105, and specifically what you're looking for are the following points:

• 3.1.1. - "3.1.1.1. Regular Air Force applicants must not be beyond their 30th birthday nor have more than 5 years of Total Federal Commissioned Service by the date as specified in the Undergraduate Flying Training Selection Board Announcement message (generally two months after board convenes)."
• 5.1.1. - "An Exception to Policy may be requested when an Undergraduate Flying Training Board applicant does not meet requirements."
• 5.2.1. - "[An ETP can submitted when the] Applicant exceeds age and/or Total Federal Commissioned Service limits in Section" [brackets my own words for clarity]

3. Further, in regards to 3.1.1. from AFI 36-2105 the MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD from Brig. Gen. Dunn at HQ USAF/AlP notes the following (downloadable above):

• "I approve a permanent blanket exception to policy for the entry age and total federal commissioned service for undergraduate flying training as outlined in AFI 36-2105, Applying for Flying Training...Effective immediately, only individuals who are beyond their 33rd birthday and/or have greater than 8 years of total federal commissioned service by the date as specified in the Undergraduate Flying Training Selection Board Announcement message require an exception-to-policy to be considered for Pilot...AFI 36-2105 will be incorporated into a new consolidated publication which will implement the new parameters for applying to UFT...This exception will remain in effect until incorporated into AFI 36-2105."

This is probably ultimately non-consequential in the grand scheme of a unit looking to bring an older guy on, but only remaining question here is likely one of those "free to interpretation" for each unit: I wonder how "only individuals who are beyond their 33rd birthday" is interpreted. Does that mean up to 32 and 364 days, 33 and 1 day, or 33 and 364 days, since you're technically still 33 up until that point.

Either way though, again, a tremendous thank you to you both a for jumping in and helping a brother out!

Edited May 29, 2020 by GreenArc

[GreenArc]

11 minutes ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

Dude, the AFI above gets the point, but keep this mentality and don’t stop pushing. Granted, ANG can be a little different beast and I’ve heard of bumps in the road that don’t make sense per AFIs, but ETPs (waivers) are 100% possible. You just need a unit (eg, pilots/commanders of the squadron/wing) to write it up and push the signatures. The recruiter will have little to do with the actual waiver.

Source: Non-prior service Reservist that recently graduated UPT and pinned on wings at 38...and my waiver went through in 2018 when the limit was still 30 and I was 36. It’s entirely possible. 

Right on brother; thank you so much and I'll do just that! And a huge congrats on your achievement, seriously. An incredible encouragement to dudes like me, and frankly just a great story of focus, discipline, and perseverance. You're the man!

[CharlieHotel47]

@FDNYOldGuy an inspiration to us ole guys chasing wings.  
 

Recruiters will only go so far. Like stated above, it’s the pilots, chief pilot and squadron/wing CC that will push for your waiver... whatever that might be. If they like ya, they will fight for ya and back you up with whatever is needed. Keep educating yourself on the process. It’s easier to have conversations with commanders when your familiar with the process and understand what needs to happen to get from point A to B.
 

Visit the unit often. Be a good bro. Show both pilots and crew dawgs that your a cool dude and fit the aircraft lifestyle and community and you shouldn’t have an issue getting hired.... 

Good luck. Cheers 

[FDNYOldGuy]

Thanks, @CharlieHotel47. It’s proof being a pain in the ass pays off. Haha. 

16 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

@FDNYOldGuy an inspiration to us ole guys chasing wings.  
 

Recruiters will only go so far. Like stated above, it’s the pilots, chief pilot and squadron/wing CC that will push for your waiver... whatever that might be. If they like ya, they will fight for ya and back you up with whatever is needed. Keep educating yourself on the process. It’s easier to have conversations with commanders when your familiar with the process and understand what needs to happen to get from point A to B.
 

Visit the unit often. Be a good bro. Show both pilots and crew dawgs that your a cool dude and fit the aircraft lifestyle and community and you shouldn’t have an issue getting hired.... 

Good luck. Cheers 

And @GreenArc, I appreciate the congrats and still can’t believe it actually happened half the time. But, through it all, what is quoted above is 99% of the game. If people like you because you’re a good dude(tte) that shows you want it, proves to be a solid wing that the folks around you don’t hate sitting in the jet with, and that you’re willing to put in the hustle and legwork to be ahead of the game, folks will move mountains to help make it happen. But, they’re not going to do it for you; you’ve gotta go above and beyond doing your part. If you bring a problem and no solution you’ve also brought yourself, most of your gatekeepers (recruiters, squadrons, IPs, etc.) are going to balk. 

Have paperwork ready before you’re asked or ASAP after getting it, offer to help where you can to move things along, and keep pushing. No biggie if you’re annoying; you’re the one wanting the job and not them, so you should be your biggest advocate. 

Good luck and feel free to ask away if you have questions. No one draw you an exact road map because situations are different, contacts change, and, frankly, you’d probably not be the first to ask exactly what to do. But, most folks will point you in the right direction and, if you have the hustle, you’ll find your way. 

[GreenArc]

Amen @FDNYOldGuy; and that's my goal! Life required me to get a few things in order on the personal side make sure family and the military would get the best of me they deserved. Sucks it took as long as it did, but it is what it is--it was the right call and one I think will pay dividends for all parties involved if I can make this happen. I'll definitely be hitting up my local unit as soon as the COVID-19 stuff allows...which probably isn't for another few months in NorCal. But, when the time comes, I'll be ready!

I've also got almost everything needed, lined up, and ready to go. I just need to re-take the AFQOT and TBAS (I took them ~10 years ago, and apparently the formulas changed according to a nice lady at AFPC, and things like my once 92 PCSM is now sub-70, which was a shock when I first checked again recently) and after that it's just, "tell me what order you want it, where to send it, and when, and it's done."

I'll keep pushing brother, and again, congrats to you and all the best! 

[Castro]

Is it impossible to get an age waiver at 46 years old even with 23 years of law enforcement experience and a Masters Degree ? 

[Trash_Stache]

congrats on the pick up FDNY. Motivation for us all

[VincentDC]

FDNY, just wanted to let you know this thread has given me lot's of hope! I'm 39 but am a Reserve officer (non-rated) from a sister service. I'm in the beginning stages of planning and this information has really helped, thank you!