The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[brickhistory]

And now every commander at every level is jumping on the collective guilt, collective punishment via mandatory re-education train.  

Edited June 4, 2020 by brickhistory

[Guardian]

Want to talk about institutional racism? Institutional racism is what the commanders are pushing right now. It’s sick. And Goldfein and the Chief should be held accountable and they should feel ashamed for what they are doing. They are tearing down the Air Force and instituting victim culture with a touch or racism of the reverse kind. You can just see how uneasy Goldfein is in talking about it because he perceives he has white privilege (my assumption based on observation).

 

What keeps any one group or minority down? Pander to them, convince them they are victims, give them anything they demand under the guise of equality, diversity, and any other buzz word. That’s how any minority is kept down. And that’s what the chief is saying by identifying himself and his sons with criminals and people who were in the wrong. It’s a very liberal idea. (Not talking politics).

 

Again. Not saying that George Floyd should have died. In fact everyone (regardless of color) should be upset with his death from a humanity perspective. Tearing the culture apart and creating divides isn’t the way to bring people together. Shame to any AF leader who says or furthers the junk that identifies minorities with criminals and aggravations and rioters. Aren’t we in the military supposed to be better than that? What happens when the first airman does something and claims racism when caught? “Chief told me that I was the target.” This is pure crazy talk.

 

This is what starts our country down the path of self destruction. Fighting this sick mentality that leadership is pushing means likely turning yourself into a Billy Mitchell where you are taken down by the system and everything you value is taken from you and only later after death did they realize Billy Mitchell was right.

 

So they can talk about the things they believe and hold personally but I bet if anyone stood up and challenged them they would be publicly ostracized. Another reason Goldfein is one of the worst commanders in our history and yes, I would take back the Schwartz of yesteryear in a heart beat.

 

Has anyone publicly spoken up about how wrong this mentality is? Or is everyone to afraid of retribution? I’ll admit it. I am.

 

Is John Q Public still a thing?

 

 

[Blue]

So, the Air Force is jumping on the latest Social Justice Warrior nonsense.

This should be surprising to no one who's spent more than a year in uniform.

[nsplayr]

@Guardian, as a fellow Guard guy now I sincerely hope you're not in a leadership position in your unit given your comments on this issue.

I'm not sure why this particular conversation that Gen. Goldfein and Chief Wright are having has riled you up so much, but no one is going to investigate them, no one is going to punish them, no one is going to reprimand them. They are not ashamed to be leaders and have hard, uncomfortable conversations with the men and women they lead.

I'm a white guy, and talking about race and racism is an uncomfortable conversation, I get it! But my friends who are black also say the same thing. Everyone I know would rather be talking about fast cars and cold beer and flying planes and killing bad guys.

That being said, we're Americans and we don't back down from a challenge, and right now our country is being challenged by our long history re: race and how that history impacts people today.

The people who are speaking out against racism and about starting a conversation about race in American and in our Air Force are signing their names and showing their faces. If you truly believe our leaders have a "sick mentality" and are doing a grave disservice to the Service, I honestly think you should speak out, sign your name and show your face in the same way. The kind of John Q. Public, anonymous leaking, etc. is just not my style and I don't think any of that helps nearly as much as speaking up frankly and standing behind what you believe in.

Edited June 5, 2020 by nsplayr

[DSG]

5 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

@Guardian, as a fellow Guard guy now I sincerely hope you're not in a leadership position in your unit given your comments on this issue.

I'm not sure why this particular conversation that Gen. Goldfein and Chief Wright are having has riled you up so much, but no one is going to investigate them, no one is going to punish them, no one is going to reprimand them. They are not ashamed to be leaders and have hard, uncomfortable conversations with the men and women they lead.

I'm a white guy, and talking about race and racism is an uncomfortable conversation, I get it! But my friends who are black also say the same thing. Everyone I know would rather be talking about fast cars and cold beer and flying planes and killing bad guys.

That being said, we're Americans and we don't back down from a challenge, and right now our country is being challenged by our long history re: race and how that history impacts people today.

The people who are speaking out against racism and about starting a conversation about race in American and in our Air Force are signing their names and showing their faces. If you truly believe our leaders have a "sick mentality" and are doing a grave disservice to the Service, I honestly think you should speak out, sign your name and show your face in the same way.

Let a hundred flowers bloom.

[Guardian]

But the question is why does it affect people today? By and large the US isn’t a racist country.

Why do people have to be their past? Why can’t they just move past it. The people who are hung up on it haven’t ever been through or are able to identify with slaves from Africa. To assert so is not intellectual honesty. Those are the discussions people are afraid to have. Why do you feel oppressed when you’re not? Why are their riots and why did they start prior to protests? Why are people so quick to make this a black vs white issue prior to everything coming out instead of a humanity issue?

Nsplayr, every airman is in a leadership position. And for the chief to identify himself and his family with criminals is just flat wrong. I know no one will hold them accountable. Maybe we should be asking why not?

Does it make any sense why we are going so fast down the racism path and riot path when none of that has come up? Not the opposition if he was on heavy drugs and had a heart attack? Not saying that cops in his back didn’t somehow aggravate or cause it. But who knows? Not me. Because the evidence hasn’t been presented. But that doesn’t seem to stop leadership at all levels from making poor and political statements in public. What good does it do to identify yourself with criminals just because the color of your skin. Can you at least explain that?

[Guardian]

Nsplayr can you honestly say that having this opinion and coming out publicly to speak about the racist nature of the chiefs statements won’t be met with punishment? I doubt it.

 

Like I said, I’m afraid of loosing everything because of their desire to push the victim mentality and guilty before proven innocent mentality. It’s guilty by accusation in this politically correct culture. I’d be open to actually hearing how you think I could make these statements. No one is going to get the top 2 in trouble. What’s a random airman to do. There are no safe spaces in the fight against PC culture and victim mentality. I’m sure somehow I will get in trouble for these comments.

[Guardian]

Let a hundred flowers bloom.

Whoa. Never heard of that. My point exactly.

[Blue]

Even though no one really asked, Air Force leadership took it upon themselves to make their statements.

They could have seized this opportunity to emphasize the fact that the US Military has a long track record of being one of the most inclusive institutions in the country.  They could have highlighted how the military will take people of all races, mix them in a unit together, and make them work together to accomplish a goal.  They could have emphasized how the military demolishes any perceived barriers based on race.

Instead, Air Force leadership chose to just jump on the victim bandwagon.  They'll be all kinds of thrash, PR, and probably a CBT or two.  And then it will all dissolve as soon as the next crisis pops up.

[Guardian]

If there was injustice or systematic racism, show me and I will stand by those to fight it. The chief did nothing but stoke bad attitudes, victims, and political correctness. His statements were in extremely poor form. And there was a much better message to be sent. They missed the boat.

 

[BashiChuni]

woke culture, cancel culture, safe spaces, PC culture, "speak up against racism", "no we dont like your opinion stfu about racism", "kneel before me"

very confusing times.

i had a great conversation with a coworker who typically posts provocative things on FB with the left leaning slant. it was amazing during our conversation how pleasant it was, even though we have different view points. i took some great points away from their perspective and i bet they would say the same.

i think part of the solution is to put the toxic social media down, turn off the news, and go talk to people Americans. imagine that.

Edited June 5, 2020 by BashiChuni

[Ryder1587]

My problem started with the CMSAF’s post.  His statements don’t support the data.  He said his greatest fear is that a black airman will be killed by a white police officer. Someone posted an article earlier that showed a study from 2015 that shows a white police officer has the same chance of shooting a black man as a Hispanic or black officer. So why make this about race ?

Can we improve poverty for the black community ?   Absolutely.  Are they in poverty because of racism ?  A thought that your race is superior to another’s.  I don’t think so.  Jordan Peterson has a good talk about this and it being majority privilege.  Is it something that should be addressed ?  I think so.  But most people are good and want to make the world a better place.  But by blaming other people or races or professions with no real solutions isn’t a solution to me.   
 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Ryder1587
Spelling.

[17D_guy]

16 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Why do people have to be their past? Why can’t they just move past it. The people who are hung up on it haven’t ever been through or are able to identify with slaves from Africa.

Holy shit @Guardian, take some Adderall and calm the fuck down. 5 posts in 10 minutes...got some history you're worried about or something?

Why do people have to be their past? 

Because they get called a coon in the work-center they thought they were joining to get away from their past.  Seen it, dealt with it. 

They get slow-rolled on training because, "That dumb N***r doesn't want to learn."  Seen it, dealt with it.

Commander has a meeting with flight leadership on how to deal with "them" coming to the unit.  Heard about it, was begged not to report it so they wouldn't be singled out.

You're sweating a false accusation of racism?

[17D_guy]

1 minute ago, Ryder1587 said:

My problem started with the CMSAF’s post.  His statements don’t support the data.  He said his greatest fear is that a black airman will be killed by a white police officer. Someone posted an article earlier that showed a study from 2015 that shows a white police officer has the same chance of shooting a black man as a Hispanic or black officer. So why make this about race ?

Somehow, I don't think saying..."He's wrong, the data shows they're likely to shoot other minorities as well" is that comforting.
 

Quote

Can we improve poverty for the black community ?   Absolutely.  Are they in poverty because of racism ?  A thought that your race is superior to another’s.  I don’t think so.  Jordan Peterson has a good talk about this and it being majority privilege.  

I love me some JP, but to act like there weren't systemic steps to keep Black American Communities in poverty, or destroy thriving ones, is wrong.  He's also Canadian, perhaps he should start questioning the RMCP on all those First Nations girls that seem to keep disappearing they can't find the time to look for.

[Guardian]

I’ve been on the receiving end of things like you mention. I’m not the labels people put on me. I refuse to be defined by their labels. And I won’t be a victim and let things that pretty much most people deal with get me down. Who do bullies pick on? The weak. One time you stand up and show them you aren’t a victim and you don’t care what they say or do and you overcome inspite of them. That’s the message. Not everyone in the Air Force that is of the same skin color should identify with criminals of the same skin color and fear the man. Exactly the opposite.

 

What’s adderall?

 

I’m sweating it for the reasons I mentioned. There are no real safe spaces unless you are a victim. Ever try to tell the green dot people that it’s wrong that someone who breaks the law by drinking underage then when they get in trouble claim they were raped to get out of trouble is a bad mentality? It doesn’t go well.

[Guardian]

Did you know minimum wage was created to keep blacks and minorities out of the work force? But our society, and primarily the far left,is pushing for higher min wage all the time

[Guardian]

Zero hate here. I’m for equal opportunity. It makes us better as a military. I serve next to and with a diverse group. And we are awesome.

And if anyone can show me where systematic racism or injustice lies, I will stand by them and fight it.

This ain’t it.

[di1630]

Has anyone heard one solution proposed on how to end this “systematic racism”?

I have not.

Which leads me to believe the reason no solutions are being proposed is because the problem is being mislabeled.

Racism is an easy out. We see it used as a broad cover for a multitude complex cases when the root cause is generally something different.

Floyd, Browm, Trayvon, etc, the only thing they had in common that it politically feasible to the left is their race.

Addressing what caused them to have violent run ins with others is not addressed because it’s an uncomfortable fact to admit that blacks are high risk in many areas. Health, poverty, crime, dropping out of school.

Why?

I think when we start solving tour problems, we’ll see that correlation of skin color to problems does not mean it’s the causal factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Ryder1587]

18 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

Somehow, I don't think saying..."He's wrong, the data shows they're likely to shoot other minorities as well" is that comforting.
 

I love me some JP, but to act like there weren't systemic steps to keep Black American Communities in poverty, or destroy thriving ones, is wrong.  He's also Canadian, perhaps he should start questioning the RMCP on all those First Nations girls that seem to keep disappearing they can't find the time to look for.

You missed the point.  Why couldn’t the statement say “I’m afraid an airman will be shot by a police officer”.  Why did he have to throw white vs black into the argument ?    Why doesn’t he want to say the cops are 18 times more likely to be killed ?  Why aren’t the real issues addressed ?  
 
Agreed with previous poster that race is easier to say versus talking about the real issues on what caused a divide. 
 

Lastly no one is sticking up for Chauvin. I think we all agree he deserves to face a trial. I think the disagreement is that Floyd was some great law abiding citizen making the world a better place   Because he definitely wasn’t.  Did he deserve what happened ?  Absolutely not. 

[Sim]

Video that leftist should watch. 

[Guardian]

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

i think part of the solution is to put the toxic social media down, turn off the news, and go talk to people Americans. imagine that.

 

This!  I don't have cable, and have essentially blocked everyone on SM and the only thing on my feeds is stuff I'm interested in (mostly Aviation groups).  Last Saturday someone posted on our Squadron group chat to avoid X part of town due to protests.  I had zero idea what people were protesting about and had to look it up, which is when I heard about this incident.  Today was spent tinkering on an N3N and a Stearman, then helped a guy who is building a Starduster, flew with a kid I'm teaching instruments, did a few pre-sunset grass landings in the Cub, then beers at my buddies hangar as we watched an amazing sunset.  

The world need less 24 hours news (err entertainment) channels and more sunset hangar beers!

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by SocialD

[TurnHer4]

I don't post here a lot, so I'll say this and go back into hiding.

We literally fought a war about states rights...to own slaves. Right side won. Slaves are freed. Lincoln had a lot to do with that...he was assassinated. Now black folks have to pull themselves up by their boot straps. No education, no skills, don't own any of our inventions, nothing. Cool. We pulled ourselves up, and started to thrive. We had our own schools, churches, hospitals, banks, etc. Those that hate us, couldn't handle it. So comes the Tulsa massacre in 1921. Burned down schools, churches, hospitals, banks, killed the men, and raped the women in front of the children. This happened in other parts of the country as well. But pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We did it again. Those that hate us didn't like it. Lynchings and burnings came along, also Jim Crow. While blacks were in WWI and WWII when they returned home, they were not given those same freedoms they went to a foreign land to fight for. Returned home to racism and segregation. Most weren't recognized until they died. JFK comes along and tries to help, does some good work...assassinated. Desegregation comes along. But then the country is redlined so we can only live in certain pockets of the country. Well now we can vote and make things better in our community, but the voting lines are redrawn to lesson the black vote. Now the funding for schools, banks, etc go to the "other neighborhoods" Well this isn't right. Lets peacefully protest. Those that hate us didn't like that. My parents and grandparents were in the street when Bull Connor unleashed the dogs and fire hoses on peaceful protesters in Birmingham. We had a voice, MLK...assassinated. Malcolm X comes along and tries it a different way...assassinated. Then comes the crack epidemic, and guns flooding black neighborhoods. We didn't own anything. We didn't own planes or boats to get any of this stuff in, or even leave the neighborhood to go buy such things. But it showed up. How did it get there? Now we have rich drug dealers and poor addicts. Violence ensues over these things. War on drugs happens. Dads/Uncles (dealers) are sent to prison. Addicts are still in the street. Who takes care of the children? No one, they raise themselves...in that environment. That's all they know. No one was coming into these communities to shed light on other options in life or a way to make it out. You gonna go to school, or sell a dime bag so you can eat tonight? We are still recovering from that. Moving into the 21st century, it's no longer cool to be racist out in the open. Those people didn't change their views they just went into hiding.

I say this not to blame folks, but to shed light on a few of the things the black community has faced. Yet, we still overcome and thrive. BUT if you think racism no longer exist, you're sadly mistaken. If you think racist haven't infiltrated our Sqs, Grps, Wgs, etc you're sadly mistaken. They are still out there, my black bro's and I see it often. We're not playing victim, and we aren't weak, but they still try us. Example, at my last Sq there was almost 20 flights and shops. 3 black flight ccs and a black shop chief. Some one had gotten enough complaints from others and had enough balls to complain to the CC that there were "too many" of us in leadership. Thats just one example. If you want more examples of racism me and the bros have seen on AD, we can take it to the PMs. 

I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I value your input and opinion. My issue is when we bring this stuff up, it gets dismissed and or downplayed. Having someone tell me my experiences didn't happen or "thats not what they meant" is ridiculous. If you can't see that black people have been oppressed and that those that oppressed us are still alive and or have passed those teachings down to their children, there's not a lot I can say. We just want a fair shake. I/We shouldn't be treated differently because of our skin color, that's it. I see a lot of you thinking of this as political, I don't see it that way. It's human rights. Conservatives/Leftist/libtards or whatever doesn't matter right now. 

I went a bit long. I'll go back into hiding now. If I ever see you dudes in the real world, first one is on me.

[Guardian]

Let’s fight it together. Show us where it exists. Tell us. Not saying there isn’t racism out there.

Don’t go into hiding. Glad you see it as human rights. That’s what Id like to think that all of those posting on the topic to include myself are after too. A fair and equal opportunity for all. I wish there weren’t labels and we were just all Americans and specifically us just volunteer Americans on one team for the better of our country. Thanks for your words. No need to go into hiding. Good conversation.

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

Video that leftist should watch. 

Mic drop.  Love this woman.  She has more courage than all the SJW victims combined.  I would go as far to say she has faced more racism from her own race than virtually any other martyr the BLM movement glorifies.   Finally, racism exists in every single country on the planet, and is espoused by every single race.  It is wrong, however it is manifested or by whomever.  However, the facts don’t suggest a “systematic racism” problem in America. 
 

To quote Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: “You are all equally worthless!”