The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Sim]

2 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

I think it’s laughable that Senators are now decrying the Postmaster General...after confirming him unanimously 89-0. 

They've already taken a knee....right after stealing (raiding) usps's coffers

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

It’s weird how new information coming to light will do that!

Sometimes all it takes for Congress to do its job is to have the orange man threaten to do something. Seriously, Congress has failed to act for years on the post office issue. 

[rancormac]

Just because a process has "worked" on a small scale, does not give proof that its a secure model.  Just because it has 'worked' has ZERO correlation to its susceptibility to fraud.  "It worked" does not mean "it cannot be taken advantage of to win by any means necessary".

Self checkout lines work.  Is that going to stop a desperate crowd from stealing shit when the time comes?

[Sua Sponte]

58 minutes ago, rancormac said:

Just because a process has "worked" on a small scale, does not give proof that its a secure model.  Just because it has 'worked' has ZERO correlation to its susceptibility to fraud.  "It worked" does not mean "it cannot be taken advantage of to win by any means necessary".

Self checkout lines work.  Is that going to stop a desperate crowd from stealing shit when the time comes?

https://shass.mit.edu/news/news-2020-pandemic-voting-mail-safe-honest-and-fair-stewart

Quote

"Vote fraud in the United States is exceedingly rare, with mailed ballots and otherwise. Over the past 20 years, about 250 million votes have been cast by a mail ballot nationally. The Heritage Foundation maintains an online database of election fraud cases in the United States and reports that there have been just over 1,200 cases of vote fraud of all forms, resulting in 1,100 criminal convictions, over the past 20 years. Of these, 204 involved the fraudulent use of absentee ballots; 143 resulted in criminal convictions. 

Quote

One hundred forty-three cases of fraud using mailed ballots over the course of 20 years comes out to seven to eight cases per year, nationally. It also means that across the 50 states, there has been an average of three cases per state over the 20-year span. That is just one case per state every six or seven years. We are talking about an occurrence that translates to about 0.00006 percent of total votes cast. 

I’ll take those odds. No method is 100% for certain against fraud.

[brickhistory]

*cough = ballot harvesting - cough*

 

 

It's pretty easy to see the narrative being crafted:

Trump loses due to mail-in voting and it's "see the system worked."

Trump wins, no matter the methods used to cast ballots and it's "That bastard cheated."

Cue the riots...

 

Hope folks got their ammo earlier because it's either nearly non-existent now or sky-high prices to obtain any

[brickhistory]

Ammo?  

No.

[lloyd christmas]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

states are responsible for voting. not a mass federal voting program.

 

This.  The federal government will not relinquish control over the entire election process once they have it.  Add it to the list of programs that the federal government mishandles on scales that are hard to measure.  Like the USPS...  

The Dems will get what they want on this one.  But, it is going to bite them.  It will be a complete clusterfuck just like Trump has said.  We will not know the results for months and the mistakes, miscounts, lost ballets, fraud and the rest will end up in the court system being litigated for years.  Trump will then be accused of not wanting to leave office.  

I can't wrap my mind around smart people here actually advocating for the federal government to take control over our voting rights.  IT IS THE PROCESS THAT PROTECTS US FROM THE GOVERNMENT.  How can anyone seriously think they can pull this off regardless of your political leanings?  There are endless threads on this very website detailing many of the things that the federal government mishandles.  They won't get this one right either.  It will be a disaster of epic proportions.  

[brickhistory]

9 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

 

@Sua Sponte this won’t happen in November... right?

That gutsy bastard is willing to take that risk for 'Merica.  In fact, the entire DNC is.

 

[Sua Sponte]

17 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html?fbclid=IwAR3BFBXBI38fk28bYNM69IXN7pHH0lXqgbbTn3r0RdBuhpHD8oFaHaQaCmo
 

“In the City Council election, 16,747 vote-by-mail ballots were received, but only 13,557 votes were counted. More than 3,190 votes, 19% of the total ballots cast, were disqualified by the board of elections. Due to the pandemic, Paterson’s election was done through vote-by-mail. Community organizations, such as the city’s NAACP chapter, are calling for the entire election to be invalidated.”

“Reporting by NBC further uncovered citizens of Paterson who are listed as having voted, but who told the news outlet they never received a ballot and did not vote. One woman, Ramona Javier, after being shown the list of people on her block who allegedly voted, told the outlet she knew of eight family members and neighbors who were wrongly listed. “We did not receive vote-by-mail ballots and thus we did not vote,” she said. ‘This is corruption. This is fraud.’”

@Sua Sponte this won’t happen in November... right?

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885074932/n-j-election-fraud-case-draws-a-trump-tweet-but-suggests-safeguards-are-working

So a city councilman and cronies got caught and charged in the first time New Jersey did mail-in voting? And? Is the KC-10 an unsafe jet cause one blew up Barksdale decades ago? Or is it a safe jet because the remaining 59, at the time, went on to have a great safety record compared to the KC-135?

Edited August 17, 2020 by Sua Sponte

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

This.  The federal government will not relinquish control over the entire election process once they have it.  Add it to the list of programs that the federal government mishandles on scales that are hard to measure.  Like the USPS...  

The Dems will get what they want on this one.  But, it is going to bite them.  It will be a complete clusterfuck just like Trump has said.  We will not know the results for months and the mistakes, miscounts, lost ballets, fraud and the rest will end up in the court system being litigated for years.  Trump will then be accused of not wanting to leave office.  

I can't wrap my mind around smart people here actually advocating for the federal government to take control over our voting rights.  IT IS THE PROCESS THAT PROTECTS US FROM THE GOVERNMENT.  How can anyone seriously think they can pull this off regardless of your political leanings?  There are endless threads on this very website detailing many of the things that the federal government mishandles.  They won't get this one right either.  It will be a disaster of epic proportions.  

Wait, is someone saying you can’t vote if you’re legally entitled to vote?

[Sua Sponte]

1 minute ago, Kiloalpha said:

So let me get this straight. First it was “fraud doesn’t happen.” And now it’s “doesn’t matter if it does, we’ll catch it?”

Talk about goalpost moving...

Can you point out where I wrote that? Don’t worry, I’ll wait.

What I actually said before you chimed in to the adult discussion.

No method is 100% for certain against fraud.

And I literally posted an article from MIT talking about a study that states voting fraud is “"Vote fraud in the United States is exceedingly rare, with mailed ballots and otherwise.”

 

[Homestar]

The Post Office is in a no-win situation:

1) Explicitly authorized by the Constitution

2) Forced by Congress to finance its own operations

3) Forced by Congress to pre-pay all its pension requirements decades in advance

4) Deliver mail services to every stretch of the county imaginable at rates that are affordable.

I think it's a good thing that Trump got the Post Office stuck in his craw.  It's forcing Congress to undo the very strings it has used to tie the hands of the Post Office.  The USPS could function with a budget of $15bn/year.  I see no reason why the USPS shouldn't operate as a government agency under Congressional appropriations.  

[BashiChuni]

24 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

No method is 100% for certain against fraud.

 

 

agreed. but you're asking for it with a mass voter mailing program. much harder to commit fraud when most americans go to the polling booth.

 

also, i haven't heard one compelling reason to change the voting process with two months to go since the election.

COVID is a known entity at this point and we know how to NOT catch it. Masks, distancing, open air spaces. easy.

Edited August 17, 2020 by BashiChuni

[Sim]

In other news. Orange man not only stealing mailboxes but cars and roads so people don't vote! 

 

 

[lloyd christmas]

57 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

Wait, is someone saying you can’t vote if you’re legally entitled to vote?

What is your definition of "legally entitled" to vote?  

 

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

agreed. but you're asking for it with a mass voter mailing program. much harder to commit fraud when most americans go to the polling booth.

 

also, i haven't heard one compelling reason to change the voting process with two months to go since the election.

COVID is a known entity at this point and we know how to NOT catch it. Masks, distancing, open air spaces. easy.

There will not be “mass mail voting” if you mean ballots being mailed to every voter in a state.

That type of voting system, which is legal and so far effective, will take place in I think 9 states, and 5 of those have done so previously, some for decades. And the systems are basically set now; no state that I know of is making any more significant changes other than NY that has a bill passed through their legislature but not yet signed into law.

Absentee voting, which the President seems to like and does personally, will be much more prevalent this year due to the pandemic. But that’s ok, right? Trump likes it, Democrats like it, it was passed into law or authorized in both red and blue states, by legislatures and by Secretaries of State from both parties. The President is encouraging his supporters in battleground states to vote via absentee ballot...and that’s great! People should absolutely take advantage of that option.

So...what are we fighting about?

Like @Homestar said, let’s fund the post office appropriately, which I agree Congress has failed to do for years. They hamstring the service by controlling its operations and then complain that it “loses money” and doesn’t work well.

Edited August 18, 2020 by nsplayr

[SurelySerious]

Frankly one of the largest money losing ventures of the USPS is this...courtesy of the UN still giving China 3d world nation postage discounts:

As U.S. Postage Rates Continue To Rise, The USPS Gives The Chinese A 'Free Ride'

International postage rates for incoming packages are set by a U.N. agency called the United Postal Union (UPU). This is a body that was established in 1874 — subsequently being absorbed into the U.N. — that is currently made up of 192 countries which meets every four years to revise its policy and set new terminal fees, with each country getting one vote a piece. While the voting system of the UPU is egalitarian, the shipping rates that it sets are not. According to Nancy Sparks of FedEx Express (via eCommerceBytes.com), the rate structure of the UPU is a system where the “haves pay the have-nots.” Essentially, countries that it deems to be poorer or less developed pay less for shipping to countries that are categorized as being richer. So someone shipping from, say, China, will pay significantly less to ship to a country like the U.S. than an American shipper will pay to send that same package to China.  

[Sua Sponte]

5 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

What is your definition of "legally entitled" to vote?  

 

https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote

[17D_guy]

3 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Frankly one of the largest money losing ventures of the USPS is this...courtesy of the UN still giving China 3d world nation postage discounts:

As U.S. Postage Rates Continue To Rise, The USPS Gives The Chinese A 'Free Ride'

Seems like something the current President could jump all over if he was serious about it...but he's really not.

[M2]

Isn't this the same post office that advises people not to send cash via the mail because it's not safe?!? 

[SurelySerious]

8 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Seems like something the current President could jump all over if he was serious about it...but he's really not.

Treaties and agreements fall on legislative branch, no?

[Sua Sponte]

2 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Treaties and agreements fall on legislative branch, no?

Treaties yes, agreements/deals like the now rescinded Iran Nuclear deal, no. Obama knew he’s never get majority approval in the Senate to approve it, hence why it became an agreement/deal.

[lloyd christmas]

17 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote

Excellent.  We are both strict law and order guys when it comes to voting.  

[Sim]

Liberalism is a mental disorder. 

[CDAWG]

Liberalism is a mental disorder. 

Such a cliché and non-sensical thing to say. Denigrates the intelligence and respect of us card carrying Republicans.

Yes it’s dumb what they’re doing.


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