The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Pooter]

Unfortunately the common denominator here is the brutal truth that both civilian cops and SF troops average to slightly below average people with average to slightly below average training. This is not to take away from their selflessness and dedication but let's be honest here and acknowledge this isn't the cream of the crop we're dealing with. If you have the aptitude to be a surgeon or a pilot or a navy seal you probably aren't going to be a cop. 

These people are not smooth operators who make perfect split second decisions in times of stress. This is why you should do everything in your power to never give the cops a reason to interact with you and ruin your day.. or much worse.  I set my cruise control on base to 1mph below the speed limit and stop for excessively long a stop signs precisely for this reason.  Do not give these jabronis a reason to enter your life.

 

If you do get stopped, then you have to mind your p's and q's even more to keep the situation on the rails.  This understanding seems to be lost lately as everyone would rather start flipping out and filming with their phone instead of staying calm.  This fuels bad reactions on the part of the police, which then fuels a media narrative, when then fuels more bad behavior by suspects who are convinced they're going to be summarily shot for no reason.
 

This self licking ice cream cone is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

 

 

[FLEA]

17 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Unfortunately the common denominator here is the brutal truth that both civilian cops and SF troops average to slightly below average people with average to slightly below average training. This is not to take away from their selflessness and dedication but let's be honest here and acknowledge this isn't the cream of the crop we're dealing with. If you have the aptitude to be a surgeon or a pilot or a navy seal you probably aren't going to be a cop. 

These people are not smooth operators who make perfect split second decisions in times of stress. This is why you should do everything in your power to never give the cops a reason to interact with you and ruin your day.. or much worse.  I set my cruise control on base to 1mph below the speed limit and stop for excessively long a stop signs precisely for this reason.  Do not give these jabronis a reason to enter your life.

 

If you do get stopped, then you have to mind your p's and q's even more to keep the situation on the rails.  This understanding seems to be lost lately as everyone would rather start flipping out and filming with their phone instead of staying calm.  This fuels bad reactions on the part of the police, which then fuels a media narrative, when then fuels more bad behavior by suspects who are convinced they're going to be summarily shot for no reason.
 

This self licking ice cream cone is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

 

 

Jesus dude, biased much? How do you come to this assessment? Based off of a single anecdote of a single person having a run in on a flight line? 

I think they didn't become pilots, surgeons or Navy Seals because that's not really what they wanted to do. 

[jazzdude]

If you do get stopped, then you have to mind your p's and q's even more to keep the situation on the rails.  This understanding seems to be lost lately as everyone would rather start flipping out and filming with their phone instead of staying calm.  This fuels bad reactions on the part of the police, which then fuels a media narrative, when then fuels more bad behavior by suspects who are convinced they're going to be summarily shot for no reason.
 
This self licking ice cream cone is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Well put, though I would add that the police need to do the same and not come across as threatening. The challenge is that both sides (police and public) to some extent are afraid of the other. Fear can make you do stupid things, and can put you in fight or flight.

Individuals may have bad experiences with police and do things to protect themselves, such as stopping in well lit public areas when pulled over, or recording the interaction. Both are reasonably reactions if you're wary of the police (or criminals impersonating the police), and shouldn't be seen as escalating actions (well, maybe not sticking a cell phone in the cop's face). Or they are just plain afraid of the police, whether it's for a good or bad reason.

On the other side, police do have be prepared to deal with potentially violent and armed criminals, and will do things to control the situation and protect themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes those self protective actions are perceived as aggressive and escalate the situation when it's not needed, and make what should've been an simple interaction into something much worse. And most people in general don't like being filmed doing their job by people looking for mistakes that can have career impacts or cause embarrassment.

This problem gets worse when different cultures collide, and normal mannerisms for one group are misinterpreted as threatening or aggressive by the other. (And yes, this is more than just race, look at the differences between west coast and east coast mannerisms, or how the military talks, etc)

There's not going to be an easy fix, since it requires trust to be rebuilt, both by the police and by the public/their community. That takes time, and generally is a local issue. And since the police are in that position of authority, I believe they are the ones that have to make the first steps in repairing the relationship with their communities and the public at large.

Then there's the question of if you have to comply with a police officer's demands. There are many situations where you don't have to comply with their demands, and have no legal reason to be compelled to. For example, a cop asking to search your vehicle during a routine traffic stop. It's your legal right to decline unless they get a warrant, but they can make your life very difficult if you decline and they don't want to drop the issue for whatever reason. Another example is the police asking to see your phone, or come into your house to ask questions.

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

Jesus dude, biased much? How do you come to this assessment? Based off of a single anecdote of a single person having a run in on a flight line? 

I think they didn't become pilots, surgeons or Navy Seals because that's not really what they wanted to do. 

This has nothing to do with that SF story.
 

We are talking about police forces writ large. And unfortunately, patrol level law enforcement on average is a low to middle income career field with relatively few entry requirements.  Of course there are exceptions and there are absolute rockstars in any community.  I'm sure the same holds true for police/SF. 
 

But if we're going to talk about the qualifications of the hypothetical "average cop" we have to look to  measurable metrics like pay and hiring requirements.  Much in the same way, you can look at the average pay and qualifications of your average Walmart cashier and safely assume they aren't about to be hired by Spacex.  
 

None of this is meant to be a dig against police.  They're good people doing honest work.  It's meant to be a dig against what society expects police to be and why the defund movement is so stupid.  If we want police to be infallible, unflappable law enforcement robocops who can deescalate any situation perfectly, then why don't we start recruiting, training, and paying them like it?

 

[Prozac]

13 hours ago, Pooter said:

This has nothing to do with that SF story.
 

We are talking about police forces writ large. And unfortunately, patrol level law enforcement on average is a low to middle income career field with relatively few entry requirements.  Of course there are exceptions and there are absolute rockstars in any community.  I'm sure the same holds true for police/SF. 
 

But if we're going to talk about the qualifications of the hypothetical "average cop" we have to look to  measurable metrics like pay and hiring requirements.  Much in the same way, you can look at the average pay and qualifications of your average Walmart cashier and safely assume they aren't about to be hired by Spacex.  
 

None of this is meant to be a dig against police.  They're good people doing honest work.  It's meant to be a dig against what society expects police to be and why the defund movement is so stupid.  If we want police to be infallible, unflappable law enforcement robocops who can deescalate any situation perfectly, then why don't we start recruiting, training, and paying them like it?

 

You make some great points. People rightfully expect perfection out of officers who hold the lives of civilians in their hands yet will not support taxes and levies that would improve training, pay and/or expand response options to help deal appropriately with situations where force may not be the most appropriate option. I wholeheartedly agree that “defund the police” has got to be one of the dumbest slogans in recent memory. “Reform the police” is far more appropriate if you’re a thinking human being. 

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

You make some great points. People rightfully expect perfection out of officers who hold the lives of civilians in their hands yet will not support taxes and levies that would improve training, pay and/or expand response options to help deal appropriately with situations where force may not be the most appropriate option. I wholeheartedly agree that “defund the police” has got to be one of the dumbest slogans in recent memory. “Reform the police” is far more appropriate if you’re a thinking human being. 

Exactly.  What do you do to improve a school system that's under performing? Cut funding even more? Yeah makes perfect sense. 
 

The dumbest part is that the defund movement isn't even logically consistent with the rest of the Democrat fiscal policy stances. They'll be the first to suggest increased funding for literally anything else that they deem a problem.  Climate change? Throw money at it. Racial reparations? Throw money at it. The Biden administration is literally pulling off a time heist against our future economy to the tune of several trillion dollars to "fix" all sorts of perceived national problems. 
 

But when it comes to police funding, they're  instantly fiscal conservatives because something something white supremacy. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Pooter

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

...yet will not support taxes and levies that would improve training, pay and/or expand response options to help deal appropriately with situations where force may not be the most appropriate option.

I can't support any of that until there's an accountability process that works to remove and bar the " bad lemons" as @Kiloalpha said.  If they want to work it at the same time, fine.  But this shit is unacceptable.

I would also add that communities need to get more involved with their police, it's not a one-way street.  The culture of "civilians vs. thin-blue-line" is not healthy.

[Lord Ratner]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:07 AM, pawnman said:

They won't be 160 IQ individuals...police departments have actually fought lawsuits so that they don't have to hire people who are "too smart".

Source? That sounds like an interesting case to read.

[Waves]

Upheld in federal court numerous times. One example:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story%3fid=95836

[Lord Ratner]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:52 AM, jazzdude said:

 and most are probably decent people doing their best. 
 

Probably? What military are you in? Your interactions with flightline SF are regularly negative to the point that you think most are only *probably* decent people?

 

Perspective takes effort. It's very easy use negative anecdotes to characterize entire systems in direct conflict with reality. We're seeing that with Americans' perception of policing now.

 

But if an educated officer will let one stupid interaction that only impacted a training sortie drive his perception to the "probably" standard, what hope does the rest of America have when the news is now completely saturated with carefully filtered anecdotal cases of police malfeasance?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[Lord Ratner]

23 hours ago, Pooter said:

Exactly.  What do you do to improve a school system that's under performing? Cut funding even more? Yeah makes perfect sense. 
 

The dumbest part is that the defund movement isn't even logically consistent with the rest of the Democrat fiscal policy stances. They'll be the first to suggest increased funding for literally anything else that they deem a problem.  Climate change? Throw money at it. Racial reparations? Throw money at it. The Biden administration is literally pulling off a time heist against our future economy to the tune of several trillion dollars to "fix" all sorts of perceived national problems. 
 

But when it comes to police funding, they're  instantly fiscal conservatives because something something white supremacy. 

You are mistaking the liberals with the marxists. The marxists are being quite consistent in their actions and advocacy, as well as in their tendency to hijack other political groups when they align on one or two issues. 

[jazzdude]

Probably? What military are you in? Your interactions with flightline SF are regularly negative to the point that you think most are only *probably* decent people?
 
Perspective takes effort. It's very easy use negative anecdotes to characterize entire systems in direct conflict with reality. We're seeing that with Americans' perception of policing now.
 
But if an educated officer will let one stupid interaction that only impacted a training sortie drive his perception to the "probably" standard, what hope does the rest of America have when the news is now completely saturated with carefully filtered anecdotal cases of police malfeasance?

Probably as in I give most people I don't know the benefit of the doubt that they are doing their best at their job.

Look at this forum and see how much people complain about any other career field. Finance, MPF, comm, etc. Hell, even GOs. Most are probably good people doing their best. I'd say a good chance/probability they are good people. But there are

But bad experiences tend to stick out, and disproportionately affect perceptions. Plus, conscious and unconscious thinking/reactions are affected differently, and it takes much more time and positive events to make a change in unconscious behavior. This makes fixing the policing problem (and poor perceptions) much more difficult, and on a longer timeline than people want to see the change in.

[lloyd christmas]

https://www.rt.com/usa/521381-maxine-waters-brooklyn-center-curfew/
 

Maxine Waters shows up in MN encouraging people to be more confrontational.  

Of course the message to people can’t be to not commit aggravated robbery, not to break the terms of your release by being in possession of a weapon or to not flee while the police are lawfully arresting you.  Nope.  Can’t say any of that.  
 

[pawnman]

11 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

https://www.rt.com/usa/521381-maxine-waters-brooklyn-center-curfew/
 

Maxine Waters shows up in MN encouraging people to be more confrontational.  

Of course the message to people can’t be to not commit aggravated robbery, not to break the terms of your release by being in possession of a weapon or to not flee while the police are lawfully arresting you.  Nope.  Can’t say any of that.  
 

I love how she says "I don't know what a curfew means"...then proceeds to tell the crowd what a curfew means.

And how she encouraged the rest of the crowd to break the curfew...then went home before the curfew kicked in.

I'm cynical enough to think she wants the cops to arrest protestors to continue to fuel her race-baiting politics.

[SurelySerious]

I love how she says "I don't know what a curfew means"...then proceeds to tell the crowd what a curfew means.
And how she encouraged the rest of the crowd to break the curfew...then went home before the curfew kicked in.
I'm cynical enough to think she wants the cops to arrest protestors to continue to fuel her race-baiting politics.

It seems to be the only political stance she has keeping her afloat.

[arg]

12 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

https://www.rt.com/usa/521381-maxine-waters-brooklyn-center-curfew/
 

Maxine Waters shows up in MN encouraging people to be more confrontational.  

Of course the message to people can’t be to not commit aggravated robbery, not to break the terms of your release by being in possession of a weapon or to not flee while the police are lawfully arresting you.  Nope.  Can’t say any of that.  
 

Didn't see that reported on CNN or MSNBC, wow. 

Is this inciting?

[dream big]

9 hours ago, arg said:

Didn't see that reported on CNN or MSNBC, wow. 

Is this inciting?

Why is she in MN? Shouldn’t she be addressing her failing district in LA? Oh wait, she doesn’t even live in her slum of a district. 

[M2]

 

Quote

Chauvin trial judge says Maxine Waters' 'confrontational' protest remarks could fuel appeal

WASHINGTON — The judge in Derek Chauvin's murder trial in the death of George Floyd criticized recent comments by Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., and said her words could be grounds for the defense to appeal a verdict.

The congresswoman, who has long been a lightning rod for criticism from the right, was already facing a torrent of Republican ire for her comments over the weekend urging protesters in Minnesota to “get more confrontational” if Chauvin is not convicted, with several GOP lawmakers calling for Waters' expulsion from Congress.

Chauvin's lawyer asked the judge to declare a mistrial over Waters' comments, arguing that she had prejudiced the jury. Judge Peter Cahill denied the request, but said that Waters' comments were "abhorrent" and that she may have handed the defense a lifeline anyway.

"I'll give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result in this whole trial being overturned," Cahill said as arguments in the case concluded Monday and the jury began deliberations...

 

 

 

[Boomer6]

As much as I despise CNN...

[ViperMan]

1 hour ago, Boomer6 said:

As much as I despise CNN...

Yeah, I actually read that article. At first I was surprised, but then I got to the punch line: "What Waters did was wrong, but it wasn't as wrong as what Trump did." Strange way to criticize someone, by pointing the finger at someone else...

 

[arg]

And Nancy is defending Auntie Maxine

[kaputt]

I find it shocking and frankly downright scary, the amount of people in this country, including people in positions of power, that believe the burden of proving your innocence should fall on the defendant. 
 

 

[VMFA187]

Norfolk fires police lieutenant who donated to accused vigilante Kyle Rittenhouse (yahoo.com)

[kaputt]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

Norfolk fires police lieutenant who donated to accused vigilante Kyle Rittenhouse (yahoo.com)

So politicians and celebrities can give money to bail out rioters, but a cop can’t donate to someone’s legal defense. America, 2021. 
 

That being said, he should have used his brain a little more and not used a work related email. 

[Smokin]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:39 PM, arg said:

Didn't see that reported on CNN or MSNBC, wow. 

Is this inciting?

Exactly.  In a just society, she would not only be impeached but also actually spend time behind bars.  Her words will likely get people killed.  First Amendment doesn't cover this kind of incitement to violence.