The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Prozac]

Do you really believe a four star who has given his entire adult life to service of our free market, democratic way of life is somehow secretly endorsing, or has been forced to endorse Marxist socialism? I’ll be the first to agree that general officers can be out of touch and tainted by politics, but this point of view strikes me as a bit much. 

[Pooter]

36 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Do you really believe a four star who has given his entire adult life to service of our free market, democratic way of life is somehow secretly endorsing, or has been forced to endorse Marxist socialism? I’ll be the first to agree that general officers can be out of touch and tainted by politics, but this point of view strikes me as a bit much. 

I think senior generals are heavily influenced by the whims of the administration. It is also possible that he's busy, doesn't have the bandwidth to fully look into this stuff, and does not realize now nefarious the content he's quasi-endorsing truly is. 

[Majestik Møøse]

Studying it objectively in a university sociology class is ok with me. Assuming every one is allowed to discuss openly without forced bias or shaming. If biases were being presented, that would be something that needs crushing.

Regarding “critical race theory” itself, I’m willing to wait to learn more. About a year ago someone on this board observed that America only cares about a particular hot topic for about 2 months max. Seems to be true so far.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Majestik Møøse

[Pooter]

52 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Studying it objectively in a university sociology class is ok with me. Assuming every one is allowed to discuss openly without forced bias or shaming. If biases were being presented, that would be something that needs crushing.

Regarding “critical race theory” itself, I’m willing to wait to learn more. About a year ago someone on this board observed that America only cares about a particular hot topic for about 2 months max. Seems to be true so far.

They can talk about whatever useless nonsense they want in sociology classes.. perfectly fine by me. That degree already isnt worth the paper it's written on so CRT conversations certainly aren't going to change that. 
 

But with CRT itself I don't think we need to wait at all. Despite entering the mainstream very recently it's been around for decades and is basically Marxist class struggles repackaged in terms of race.
 

The gist is that any outcome differential between racial groups along any metric imaginable can be chalked up to a racist system. The part they don't want you to know is that since differentials between groups have and always will exist, "the work" needed to alleviate "systemic racism" will never be complete. And If you disagree with the assertion that all of the systems are racist, that's because you're a beneficiary of those systems which only increases your need for remediation. 
 

If the goal is to permanently cast oneself as the victim, it's basically a perfect ideology. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Pooter

[brabus]

CRT is also EVERYWHERE in the public school system, and has been injected for a long time now. It’s a hot topic because parents are finally realizing what bullshit is being taught to their kids and they’re pissed. Go do a little research into your local school district - very good chance CRT exists on a varying scale. This is not a flavor du jour topic, or at least it shouldn’t be. 

[Prozac]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

I think senior generals are heavily influenced by the whims of the administration. It is also possible that he's busy, doesn't have the bandwidth to fully look into this stuff, and does not realize now nefarious the content he's quasi-endorsing truly is. 

Which content, exactly, is he “quasi endorsing”? YMMV, but in my experience senior officers don’t unknowingly endorse anything, quasi or otherwise. General officers are certainly not infallible, but they’re not dumb either. It’s quite a stretch to intimate that Milley is somehow unknowingly part of some Marxist plot against America. 

[Lord Ratner]

21 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

What did you guys think of Gen Milley’s comments about woke culture and critical race theory? I thought they were pretty reasonable, and i also think that Laura Ingram went off the deep end. Also, Gaetz is a doucheclown.

He's a tool, like all of them, and he makes bullshit arguments like the best politicians in the world.

 

Why isn't Marx or Lenin on the reading list? First inconsistency.

 

Second, if he's comparing the reading of Marx and Lenin to Kendi (for understanding alternate views), is he acknowledging that all three are morally bankrupt? I assure you he would not claim that about Kendi lest his career be put in jeopardy.

 

Third, if you read Marx and Lenin to learn about communism, wouldn't you read Duke or Jared Taylor to learn about white supremacy? Where are those recommendations?

 

Once again liberal voters are being taken for a ride. CRT, just like anti-racism, has existing literature. You can read it. It's crazy at best, *overtly* racist at worst. But the people who wrote the books and the hacks who promote them lie on TV about the very content they created. It's wild. 

 

If you haven't read "How to be an Antiracist" or "White Fragility," maybe don't be so quick to defend them.

[Lord Ratner]

22 hours ago, Prozac said:

Do you really believe a four star who has given his entire adult life to service of our free market, democratic way of life is somehow secretly endorsing, or has been forced to endorse Marxist socialism? I’ll be the first to agree that general officers can be out of touch and tainted by politics, but this point of view strikes me as a bit much. 

Bro... Given his entire adult life? Have you seen what the AF is like once you make colonel?

 

Being busy is not a sacrifice, especially with the attendant rewards of being a general officer. I know plenty of corporate executives who work every bit as much as the O-6+ class, and more. They miss family events, work on vacation, and also very little sleep. Like the generals, they do it for the pay, power, and prestige. And they aren't bad people for it. They also aren't martyrs.

 

There are good ones and bad ones. But an undying passion for the flag gets you through boot camp, not War College.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Bro... Given his entire adult life? Have you seen what the AF is like once you make colonel?

 

Being busy is not a sacrifice, especially with the attendant rewards of being a general officer. I know plenty of corporate executives who work every bit as much as the O-6+ class, and more. They miss family events, work on vacation, and also very little sleep. Like the generals, they do it for the pay, power, and prestige. And they aren't bad people for it. They also aren't martyrs.

 

There are good ones and bad ones. But an undying passion for the flag gets you through boot camp, not War College.

Not saying the Gen is the greatest American ever. But I find it highly unlikely that someone as thoroughly vetted as he would spend a career in the US military while being some sort of secret Marxist. It seems that the standard trope from the right these days is that anyone who might lean left is a Chinese Communist, Marxist, Socialist, ANTIFA stooge that’s part of Hillary’s grand plot to hand the United States over to the Bill Gates led cabal that runs the world. I write that tongue in cheek, but Jesus the conspiracy theories are out there these days. It must be exhausting for the true believers to keep up!

[kaputt]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Not saying the Gen is the greatest American ever. But I find it highly unlikely that someone as thoroughly vetted as he would spend a career in the US military while being some sort of secret Marxist. It seems that the standard trope from the right these days is that anyone who might lean left is a Chinese Communist, Marxist, Socialist, ANTIFA stooge that’s part of Hillary’s grand plot to hand the United States over to the Bill Gates led cabal that runs the world. I write that tongue in cheek, but Jesus the conspiracy theories are out there these days. It must be exhausting for the true believers to keep up!

The thing is though, a lot of the “slight left leaners” these days have fallen in line with some absolute bat shit leftist stuff. Look at what figures in politics, sports, media, business, and even some in the military, say and support publicly today that not all that long ago would have been thought insane. 
 

I don’t really think it’s a conspiracy theory when it’s right out there in the open for people to see. 
 

The million dollar question is why are these people doing this? I tend to agree that many of them are not secret marxists, which to me is even scarier. That means they have at some point recently taken the bait that these ideas aren’t so bad after all. It means that the soft words of equity, inclusion, etc… and the fear of being cancelled is probably working. 

[Lord Ratner]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

Not saying the Gen is the greatest American ever. But I find it highly unlikely that someone as thoroughly vetted as he would spend a career in the US military while being some sort of secret Marxist. It seems that the standard trope from the right these days is that anyone who might lean left is a Chinese Communist, Marxist, Socialist, ANTIFA stooge that’s part of Hillary’s grand plot to hand the United States over to the Bill Gates led cabal that runs the world. I write that tongue in cheek, but Jesus the conspiracy theories are out there these days. It must be exhausting for the true believers to keep up!

Most of the "Marxists" knew nothing about Marx, they just wanted to belong to the intellectual class, which has *always* been infatuated with Marx for the same reason Marx wrote what he did. If only people did what I think is best, we'd live in a Utopia.

 

So no, the dear general is likely not a Marxist. He's either what is historically called a "useful idiot," or a habitual yes-man. As a general, the latter is most probable.

 

But when you are espousing and promoting the theories of proud Marxists, you shouldn't be shocked if you get lumped in with them. 

[Clark Griswold]

So no, the dear general is likely not a Marxist. He's either what is historically called a "useful idiot," or a habitual yes-man. As a general, the latter is most probable.

Could be both simultaneously, they’re not mutually exclusive

What was and is really bad about CRT at the USMA and mil in general is that it is indoctrination being presented falsely or defended as by leadership as education

When you walk into a briefing, presentation, class etc and are told you are this because of this with no objective examination of said theory it’s political / cultural indoctrination


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lloyd christmas]

It sure is interesting listening to politicians in DC talk about the increase in violent crime going on across the country.  Biden’s tired and confused presser on the issue was really hard to watch.  We are going after rogue gun dealers…. I had no idea that the ATF or FBI had never gone after rogue gun dealers before.  

It certainly isn’t hard to understand or to predict this if you’re willing to be honest about it.  When Democrat politicians create a culture of crime via a defund the police movement, demonize law enforcement officers, do away with cash bail, incentivize single parenthood, decline to prosecute criminals, create martyrs/heroes out of life long violent thugs, etc you are going to see a sharp increase in crime.  And innocent people will suffer.  And our country will continue to fall apart.

I can’t imagine pairing the message and behavior of Democrat politicians with policies that would make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves.  Scary stuff.  

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

It sure is interesting listening to politicians in DC talk about the increase in violent crime going on across the country.  Biden’s tired and confused presser on the issue was really hard to watch.  We are going after rogue gun dealers…. I had no idea that the ATF or FBI had never gone after rogue gun dealers before.  

It certainly isn’t hard to understand or to predict this if you’re willing to be honest about it.  When Democrat politicians create a culture of crime via a defund the police movement, demonize law enforcement officers, do away with cash bail, incentivize single parenthood, decline to prosecute criminals, create martyrs/heroes out of life long violent thugs, etc you are going to see a sharp increase in crime.  And innocent people will suffer.  And our country will continue to fall apart.

I can’t imagine pairing the message and behavior of Democrat politicians with policies that would make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves.  Scary stuff.  

People with the means to will just say F the city and move out to red states and more rural areas in general. Which is what we're already seeing happen. That's the one good thing to come out of this pandemic--it showed everyone how shitty the liberal policies that dominate our cities are. 
 

The only draws cities ever had in the first place were employment opportunities and amenities like nice bars/restaurants/shopping etc... but the Democrats just proved they'll shut that down if they feel like it. And then all you have left is an expensive, crowded, crime-riddled shithole. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Pooter

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

People with the means to will just say F the city and move out to red states and more rural areas in general. Which is what we're already seeing happen. That's the one good thing to come out of this pandemic--it showed everyone how shitty the liberal policies that dominate our cities are. 
 

The only draws cities ever had in the first place were employment opportunities and amenities like nice bars/restaurants/shopping etc... but the Democrats just proved they'll shut that down if they feel like it. And then all you have left is an expensive, crowded, crime-riddled shithole. 

 

Big problem is these idiots come out here and think it's perfectly normal to pay stupid prices for real estate, because it's a "good deal," compared to the exorbitant prices they're used to in the city.   Then they start to vote in the same idiots they just fled.  Like a beaten wife who thinks their husband has really changed, they think it will be different.  Stay where you're at and don't fuck up our area too!  

[lloyd christmas]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

People with the means to will just say F the city and move out to red states and more rural areas in general. Which is what we're already seeing happen. That's the one good thing to come out of this pandemic--it showed everyone how shitty the liberal policies that dominate our cities are. 
 

The only draws cities ever had in the first place were employment opportunities and amenities like nice bars/restaurants/shopping etc... but the Democrats just proved they'll shut that down if they feel like it. And then all you have left is an expensive, crowded, crime-riddled shithole. 

Yep.  I live in the DFW metroplex.  I see it all the time.  

Libs have ruined literally everything they’ve touched.  Please don’t California my Texas.  

[M2]

Interesting...
 

Quote

Lawmaker Wants to Grill Officers on Critical Race Theory Before Approving Promotions

Sen. Tom Cotton says he may start grilling general officers about their views on critical race theory before agreeing to promote them. 

The additional questioning would be a new step in the Arkansas Republican’s efforts to eradicate military training that concerns white privilege or the oppression of Black people. Cotton argues that teaching about these things undermines troop morale and unit cohesion. 

The Senate Armed Services Committee considers about 50,000 nominations each year for civilian and military officials, including all general or flag officers, even if they are not leading a major command that would require a confirmation hearing. Just last month, for example, the Air Force sent the Senate a batch of 113 Air National Guard officers who were being promoted. These slates of names are typically handled at the staff level and approved without fanfare. 

But Cotton wants to rethink that...

(Full article at title link)

 

[dream big]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:50 PM, M2 said:

Interesting...
 

Crenshaw has teamed up with him as well. While it is surely political posturing by Cotton, it is a nice display of checks and balances.  CRT has no place in our military.  Basic treating all people with respect might do. 

[Waingro]

9 hours ago, dream big said:

Crenshaw has teamed up with him as well. While it is surely political posturing by Cotton, it is a nice display of checks and balances.  CRT has no place in our military.  Basic treating all people with respect might do. 

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

[dream big]

29 minutes ago, Waingro said:

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

You very well could be right, maybe this is a big nothing burger that passes as the flavor of the year.  I wouldn’t want to take that chance though.  Our military and this country are too important for freedom to risk it with social experimentation. So, if CRT is common place in the military (Lt Col Lohmeier’s accounts lead us to believe it is), then it should be stomped out immediately. 

[brabus]

8 hours ago, Waingro said:

Agreed, it doesn't belong. But I doubt Crenshaw or Cotton could accurately describe what CRT actually is. And it isn't in our military, or K-12 curriculum anywhere. This is a culture war Boogeyman with as much factual basis behind it as razor blades in Halloween candy, or the "War on Christmas." Media personalities everywhere are giving airtime to politicians trying to build capital based on CRT fear. 

Either you’re incredibly wrong, or I could potentially see a POV that people have grossly misread and misapplied CRT in the education system (e.g. what they’re doing isn’t implementing CRT, but that doesn’t mean they’re not implementing horrific policies). Either way, what’s happening in public education is a disaster and people need to stand up and stop this bullshit. 

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Either way, what’s happening in public education is a disaster and people need to stand up and stop this bullshit. 

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

[Waingro]

21 minutes ago, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT...

Careful, bringing up the fact that zero schools have ever espoused CRT is just one step away from asking them to define it! I'm pretty sure the Tucker talking points don't go that deep.

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

“CRT has no place in our public schools”

“The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools”

Both statements can be simultaneously true you know.  

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Prozac said:

You’re absolutely correct there. Of course, I couldn’t find a single example of a school district in the United States espousing CRT, but there seem to be plenty that still want to teach creationism, like in Arkansas:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/08/house-advances-bill-to-let-schools-teach/

The radical conservative agenda has no place in our public schools! 

I'd certainly argue that the 1619 Project is a form of CRT.

As for defining it: CRT is, at its core, the idea that race is the overriding factor in all of American society.  That race dictates where people live, the incomes that people have, the opportunities they can take advantage of, the laws that are passed and enforced.  It's the idea that race is the single most important factor in a person's life.

The Biden Administration has proposed giving more funding to schools that teach the 1619 project and Ibram X Kendi's work.  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/04/19/2021-08068/proposed-priorities-american-history-and-civics-education