The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Scooter14]

…unless the device only works when you want to slow down in which case you’re describing the hybrid design manufacturers have been using for 20 years.

Apparently I need to get smarter on electric cars. I honestly had no idea that they did that.

[Blue]

Yeah, conservation of energy, aka There is No Such Thing as a Free Lunch.

If you have an electric car, and try one of those power generation ideas (windmill on the roof, generator on the wheels, etc), the losses you experience from drag and friction are more than the power you generate.

Exception being the "regenerative braking" setups, where some of the power is recaptured when you're braking.  You're recapturing the energy that would normally be lost to heat and friction with the brakes.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Blue

[Danger41]

3 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

 

Federal Oil Leases Slow to a Trickle Under Biden

President, citing climate change, spurns resources his predecessors relied on to boost U.S. energy production

Have to apologize, as this particular story the WSJ wants you to sign-up (not free).  So, I've posted some snippets:

"WASHINGTON—The Biden administration has leased fewer acres for oil-and-gas drilling offshore and on federal land than any other administration in its early stages dating back to the end of World War II, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.

President Biden’s Interior Department leased 126,228 acres for drilling through Aug. 20, his first 19 months in office, the analysis found. No other president since Richard Nixon in 1969-70 leased out fewer than 4.4 million acres at this stage in his first term."

And

"In all, the Interior Department has awarded 203 leases for oil and gas development during Mr. Biden’s first 19 months in office. Former presidents Trump and Obama each approved 10 times as many leases during the same period, the Journal’s analysis shows."

And

"For offshore drilling, the Biden administration has yet to complete a sale."

 

Interestingly with Nixon, his vision was to go totally nuclear and totally independent of foreign energy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Independence#:~:text=Nixon declared that American science,plants by the year 2000.

[FourFans]

16 hours ago, Blue said:

Yeah, conservation of energy, aka There is No Such Thing as a Free Lunch.

If you have an electric car, and try one of those power generation ideas (windmill on the roof, generator on the wheels, etc), the losses you experience from drag and friction are more than the power you generate.

Exception being the "regenerative braking" setups, where some of the power is recaptured when you're braking.  You're recapturing the energy that would normally be lost to heat and friction with the brakes.

It's call KERS...and it's been around for a minute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy_recovery_system.  It's rather heavy for the small payback you get though.

Beyond that, they've proven that any wind-generation system loses more energy to drag than is recovered, otherwise you'd see them used in some form on every single 24-hour racer.  Currently, the only energy semi-efficient way of powering a car on the move is solar...which is anything BUT cost efficient, therefore they're don't do it.  However, the jury is still out on big-rigs, as they have the real estate on top of the trailer to house enough solar to be effective.  The problem there is that users, not the trucking company, have to foot the bill for putting solar on their trailers.  We're still exploring the benefits of aerodynamically streamlining big-rigs as it is, so any development will be sure to be slow.

Edited September 5, 2022 by FourFans130

[busdriver]

3 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

However, the jury is still out on big-rigs, as they have the real estate on top of the trailer to house enough solar to be effective.  

Nope.  There's about 5-6 kwh worth of space on top of a big rig.  Volvo's prototype (link) has a battery capacity of 540 kwh.  The efficiency numbers in that article don't match their range numbers, and their average speed was 50mph, but regardless you're talking a ~4% increase in energy over a four hour drive range.

To put the energy needed for a truck into perspective: the average home solar installation is about 8.5kwh.  

Electric truck stops are looking to be at megawatt levels to get a charge done over lunch.

[Prozac]

57 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Nope.  There's about 5-6 kwh worth of space on top of a big rig.  Volvo's prototype (link) has a battery capacity of 540 kwh.  The efficiency numbers in that article don't match their range numbers, and their average speed was 50mph, but regardless you're talking a ~4% increase in energy over a four hour drive range.

To put the energy needed for a truck into perspective: the average home solar installation is about 8.5kwh.  

Electric truck stops are looking to be at megawatt levels to get a charge done over lunch.

The numbers for solar powered vehicles don’t pencil out for anything but the lightest vehicles & even then, come with some major compromises. I’ve been following this company for a bit, & their offering looks somewhat promising as a second/commuter vehicle: https://aptera.us I’ll wait for their product to come to market before I judge their potential as a company.

I’ve wondered lately why all the momentum has moved away from hybrids and onto pure electric, especially for heavy applications like semis. Why not go diesel/electric like locomotives where you get all the benefits of electric motors powering the wheels full time (massive, instantaneous torque) with basically a diesel generator to charge you as you go along? Yeah, you still end up with (lower) emissions but it’s probably gonna be the best we can do until A: massive improvements in battery storage and packaging come along, or B: we develop 100% fail safe reactors that can fit under the hood. 

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

Nope.  There's about 5-6 kwh worth of space on top of a big rig.  Volvo's prototype (link) has a battery capacity of 540 kwh.  The efficiency numbers in that article don't match their range numbers, and their average speed was 50mph, but regardless you're talking a ~4% increase in energy over a four hour drive range.

To put the energy needed for a truck into perspective: the average home solar installation is about 8.5kwh.  

Electric truck stops are looking to be at megawatt levels to get a charge done over lunch.

I stand corrected.  This is why I operate airplanes instead of creating energy policy.

[FourFans]

2 minutes ago, Prozac said:

The numbers for solar powered vehicles don’t pencil out for anything but the lightest vehicles & even then, come with some major compromises. I’ve been following this company for a bit, & their offering looks somewhat promising as a second/commuter vehicle: https://aptera.us I’ll wait for their product to come to market before I judge their potential as a company.

I’ve wondered lately why all the momentum has moved away from hybrids and onto pure electric, especially for heavy applications like semis. Why not go diesel/electric like locomotives where you get all the benefits of electric motors powering the wheels full time (massive, instantaneous torque) with basically a diesel generator to charge you as you go along? Yeah, you still end up with (lower) emissions but it’s probably gonna be the best we can do until A: massive improvements in battery storage and packaging come along, or B: we develop 100% fail safe reactors that can fit under the hood. 

This is all I can see:

(for those not familiar with Top Gear.  This is from BBC Top Gear)

[StoleIt]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

This is all I can see:

(for those not familiar with Top Gear.  This is from BBC Top Gear)

[busdriver]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

 https://aptera.us I’ll wait for their product to come to market before I judge

I’ve wondered lately why all the momentum has moved away from hybrids and onto pure electric,

.....diesel/electric like locomotives

A: massive improvements in battery storage and packaging come along,

I'm watching Aptera as well.  I actually think their manufacturing techniques/ideas are more interesting than the car.

Honestly: Elon.  He made electric vehicles cool and up-market.  Everything previously was an over priced econo-box.

I suspect the weight/cost penalty doesn't work out well.  A single train car carries something like 4 semi-trailers worth of stuff.  You can amortize a lot when you're carrying that much, and weight is effectively irrelevant on a train.

I'm confident that the battery tech will be much better in the not-too distant future.  There's a shit load of money to be made in that sector.  What gives me pause is the energy levels needed to charge an electric semi.  Megawatt level charging, for one truck, is insane.  Now multiply that by however many charging stations at a truck-stop, and they'll have to hang out for 30 minutes while charging.  

I keep coming back to the electricity demand increase if our species dropped all fossil fuels, and I can't wrap my head around it without nuclear power.

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, busdriver said:

and I can't wrap my head around it without nuclear power.

Yeah, this is key. Everybody’s going to have to come to terms with the fact that we NEED new reactors. A lot of progress has been made over the past 40 years and it’s my understanding that smaller, regional level plants are probably the way to go. We should start a massive PR campaign to get people on board & start building the things ASAP. 

In related news, the French have apparently come to terms with the reality of Europe’s energy predicament and decided to re-start all of their reactors: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-restart-all-its-nuclear-reactors-by-this-winter-minister-says-2022-09-02/

Over/under on how long it takes them to start selling electricity to the Germans? 

[HeloDude]

13 hours ago, Prozac said:

Over/under on how long it takes them to start selling electricity to the Germans? 

So the Germans no longer find nuclear power dangerous?  What changed their mind so quickly?

“The German government has said that it considers nuclear energy dangerous and objects to European Union proposals that would let the technology remain part of the bloc’s plans for a climate-friendly future.“

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/1/3/germany-calls-nuclear-power-dangerous-rejects-eu-plan

[Sim]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:21 PM, Scooter14 said:

But if you’re going 75 on a highway and you throw a small RAT out there into the slipstream or like herkbum said have it in your wheel to charge the battery…

Now about this instead?

[Biff_T]

[busdriver]

23 hours ago, Prozac said:

smaller, regional level plants are probably the way to go. We should start a massive PR campaign to get people on board & start building the things ASAP. 

I think what you're alluding to is the so called small, modular reactors.  In my estimation, the primary advantage of these is less their size, and more the standardized safety design(s).  In other words, a 300Mw reactor could have 1-4 pre-approved configurations (# of reactors in the facility), which would hopefully make the regulatory approval process shorter, and allow new facilities to get started in a reasonable timeline.

In any event.  Agreed.

[arg]

3 hours ago, Sim said:

Now about this instead?

That’s a big ass Mercedes hood ornament 

[GrndPndr]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Wait is that M2's Twitter account?  That doesn't seem right (or does it?)

[FLEA]

28 minutes ago, GrndPndr said:

Wait is that M2's Twitter account?  That doesn't seem right (or does it?)

Oh man I didn't notice but now that you said it this whole thing is 100X more hilarious!!! 😂

[Lord Ratner]

On 9/5/2022 at 6:13 PM, busdriver said:

I'm watching Aptera as well.  I actually think their manufacturing techniques/ideas are more interesting than the car.

Honestly: Elon.  He made electric vehicles cool and up-market.  Everything previously was an over priced econo-box.

I suspect the weight/cost penalty doesn't work out well.  A single train car carries something like 4 semi-trailers worth of stuff.  You can amortize a lot when you're carrying that much, and weight is effectively irrelevant on a train.

I'm confident that the battery tech will be much better in the not-too distant future.  There's a shit load of money to be made in that sector.  What gives me pause is the energy levels needed to charge an electric semi.  Megawatt level charging, for one truck, is insane.  Now multiply that by however many charging stations at a truck-stop, and they'll have to hang out for 30 minutes while charging.  

I keep coming back to the electricity demand increase if our species dropped all fossil fuels, and I can't wrap my head around it without nuclear power.

Exactly. Invest in nuclear before everyone else realizes there was only ever one answer.

 

[disgruntledemployee]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:46 PM, Prozac said:

Yeah, this is key. Everybody’s going to have to come to terms with the fact that we NEED new reactors. A lot of progress has been made over the past 40 years and it’s my understanding that smaller, regional level plants are probably the way to go. We should start a massive PR campaign to get people on board & start building the things ASAP.

TRIGA (Training, Research, Isotopes, General Atomics) reactors are small and I can see them modified for power generation.  I hear they're safer safe compared to the bigguns (different fuel).  For example, the Mechanical Engineering building at UW Madison houses a 1 MW TRIGA.  The building occupies a block and one wouldn't know there's a reactor in the building when passing by.  Anyway, just shows that many small power plants could work, just add a steam generator system. 

Oh, and I know nothin about this stuff, so....

https://reactor.engr.wisc.edu/

Edited September 7, 2022 by disgruntledemployee

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

The Bill Gates documentary on netflix (maybe hulu?) had an episode on his venture into nuclear power. It looked really awesome, with passive safety (the opposite of Fukushima: when it loses power, it can't help but shut off and avoid a meltdown), but the big problem they ran into was the Trump admin enacting rules that prevented them from working with China to actually develop it, as they are the only country with the means to make such a risky investment in such small prototype. Whether or not that was worth it, the point still stands that nuclear really needs to be the backbone of our power grid, complemented with solar/wind when available, especially to power the desalination plants that southern California is going to need when Lake Mead dries up.

[BashiChuni]

yeah cause we want the chinese to be embedded at the core of any nuclear power generation in the US...good move on the Trump admin's part.

[BashiChuni]

Woke until if affects your city…then OOPS!

[Scooter14]

Now about this instead?

That looks like a lot of drag to me…

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Woke until if affects your city…then OOPS!

Yeah the lack of self awareness or shame is pretty impressive