The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[O Face]

4 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

#1, but with a whole lotta "been woefully misled" into thinking all manner of asinine things.

Yeah, but the thing that really leaves me scratching my head is all the major corporations spewing their woke bullshit, around the clock, even at the expense of their own bottom line. It definitely leaves one feeling someone is tugging the puppet strings from behind the curtain. 

[brabus]

1 hour ago, O Face said:

even at the expense of their own bottom line

Quite the opposite - being woke makes them shitloads of money (at least in the short term). They’ll go “un-woke” the second they can’t profit from it. Read Woke Inc - great book on this topic.

[ViperMan]

2 hours ago, O Face said:

Yeah, but the thing that really leaves me scratching my head is all the major corporations spewing their woke bullshit, around the clock, even at the expense of their own bottom line. It definitely leaves one feeling someone is tugging the puppet strings from behind the curtain. 

Oh. There is NO doubt about that. You either have a DEI slide in your sales pitch and have HR "on board" with hiring people based on immutable characteristics, or you can kiss any privilege the government grants you in whatever field you operate in goodbye. Period. Appease the God in government, or GTFO.

Look at every airline right now. United is trying to hire 50% "POC" (whatever that means) and women. And it's not because they thought it up in a corporate meeting all by themselves.

[O Face]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Quite the opposite - being woke makes them shitloads of money (at least in the short term). They’ll go “un-woke” the second they can’t profit from it. Read Woke Inc - great book on this topic.

I guess I meant when folks like me get fed up with the corporation’s shit and stop buying their product. It seems to me that it would be so much easier to just keep quiet as a corporation and not piss off at least half of your clientele. I’ve been drinking RC with my Jack Daniels for years now…I wonder if Coke misses me?  I’ll check that book out. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by O Face
Spellcheck

[Lord Ratner]

8 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Thank you for your valuable critique Karen...Chaz or whatever your name is.  I great appreciate your unsolicited and useless feedback, I am almost a better person for having read it.  For the record, I have NO intent of changing minds that can't be changed but I do enjoy pointing out the lunacy of what they propose. 

As far as your personality assessment, well...I am a pilot so perhaps I'm an asshole afterall.

Or maybe I am a straight up asshole...either way, with all due respect, I could care less what you think 🙂

Finally, I would invite you to use that wonderful little ignore button, that way you wont be triggered, offended or develop any sort of social PTSD reading my future posts.  Cheers! 🥃

So wait, the guy who posts a dozen times a day on the web board is now whining about unsolicited feedback? Why would I ignore you when I can just call you out? Who's the Karen exactly?

 

Just another retired cog that didn't rock the boat when they could have made a difference, but now has a mission to keep it real on the internet. 

 

I'm sure the fight against social justice insanity will make huge strides with Boomer memes and more worthless political team-ism, but I think I'll stick with faith in the American people and not write off half the country because Fox News told me that Democrats all hate genders and white people. 😉

 

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, ViperMan said:

#1, but with a whole lotta "been woefully misled" into thinking all manner of asinine things.

Exactly. And they won't be guided back to reality through ridicule. 

[O Face]

1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

Look at every airline right now. United is trying to hire 50% "POC" (whatever that means) and women. And it's not because they thought it up in a corporate meeting all by themselves.

I doubt Kirby even knows what it means, but yes I agree, Uncle Sugar has his hand up Kirby’s ass far enough to get his fvckin lips to say whatever horseshit he wants. 

[Lord Ratner]

16 hours ago, brabus said:

Are we talking about “traditional” liberal democrats or are we talking about progressive liberals?

Definitely the former, who make up the vast majority of Democratic voters (not activists or politicians).

 

They are, by and large, the Democrats we live with, served with, and work with. And they are the only path to "fixing" the Democratic party, so yeah, we shouldn't treat them like shit for the mistake of trusting an activist class with an agenda.

[ViperMan]

59 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Exactly. And they won't be guided back to reality through ridicule. 

Fair enough, but they're so far gone, fact, reason, and logic aren't going to work either...hence, I'll choose ridicule and laughter.

[ClearedHot]

6 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Words...

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Fair enough, but they're so far gone, fact, reason, and logic aren't going to work either...hence, I'll choose ridicule and laughter.

I'm my experience, most overwhelmingly are not. Again, I'm not talking about someone who runs a nonprofit or PAC. Just a Democratic voter. 

 

The dialog is dead, and if you can't talk, you can't think. Abortion, transgenderism, racism, policing, immigration... I haven't found a single person, including some of my actual progressive friends, who actually hold the party line. But they have to be prodded, they have to go through the process of hearing the ridiculous policy, saying it out loud themselves, then trying (and failing) to explain it coherently to someone who is legit interested in hearing their reasoning without calling them a clown. I *rarely* ever have to do more than ask for a cogent explanation and then just let them stumble around until eventually they say something in direct conflict with the activist message. Some examples of things I have yet to see survive this process:

- All white people are racist. Actually racist against minorities.

- The current border situation is ok

- Abortion should be allowed for any reason on the day of delivery (this one *never* survives contact with a parent, and only rarely survives with anyone else)

- 5 year olds should be given irreversible hormones if they think they are a different gender

- The police are systemically killing unarmed black people (have to be able to cite FBI statistics)

- Homeless people should be free to live the way they are living now in most cities

 

Over and over and over I'm amazed at how quickly these insane ideas disintegrate upon the first instance of the well-intentioned liberal having to explain it to someone who isn't making fun of them, using some stupid nickname to describe their affiliation, or (and this is the big one) implying right off the bat that anyone who's would vote for a politician who supports/makes these claims must be stupid, unpatriotic, or evil.

 

You'd think after being treated that way for years, the Trump voters would realize how shitty it is and refrain from doing the same, but social media and 24 hour cable news have turned politics into a revenge sport, where whataboutism and score keeping are more important than consensus and finding truth. 

 

Shit, I see it with family members (in my family as well). People who spend decades living together suddenly accusing the other of being anti-American, evil, of hating some group or another, of "being the problem." Never once for something they actually *do,* and always for who they voted for, as if a single vote implies absolute allegiance to any and all of a political party's most dogmatic or absurd positions. It's obviously wrong, yet so easy a trap to fall into.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Lord Ratner

[brabus]

8 hours ago, O Face said:

I guess I meant when folks like me get fed up with the corporation’s shit and stop buying their product. It seems to me that it would be so much easier to just keep quiet as a corporation and not piss off at least half of your clientele. I’ve been drinking RC with my Jack Daniels for years now…I wonder if Coke misses me?  I’ll check that book out. 

I’m hoping the actions of people like us will be what ultimately corrects corporate America back to how they should act. I think it’ll happen, but how long it’ll take is the million dollar question. 

[SurelySerious]

I’m hoping the actions of people like us will be what ultimately corrects corporate America back to how they should act. I think it’ll happen, but how long it’ll take is the million dollar question. 

When the gubmint subsidizes and incentivizes more bureaucracy in the name of DEI…makes it more difficult. But hopefully.

[brabus]

Agreed - but at some point it’ll break, the subsidies will just lengthen the process. 

[brabus]

Woke-related: the meltdown from the progressives over Elon’s twitter acquisition is nothing short of hilarious, but also still shocking how incredibly delusional so many people are.

One gem of a tweet: “Nearly every American media institution is now openly right-wing”. That is some next-level delusion/ignorance. 
 

[ClearedHot]

3 minutes ago, brabus said:

Woke-related: the meltdown from the progressives over Elon’s twitter acquisition is nothing short of hilarious, but also still shocking how incredibly delusional so many people are.

One gem of a tweet: “Nearly every American media institution is now openly right-wing”. That is some next-level delusion/ignorance. 
 

And the maddening part is the press will echo that accusation.

Both sides do and say terrible things but the press was supposed to be there to correct the record, find and report the truth, be the fourth estate and provide a check and balance on the government.  Unfortunately the press lost it's way and picked a side, that has enabled so much false information that has been pushed to the headlines. 

I hope Elon publishes the algorithms that were being used at Twitter...good or bad it will be interesting to see the ground truth on the amount of manipulation performed by big tech.  I also hope he finds a way to keep Twitter profitable and functioning so there is a method to share the truth whether I agree with what is being said or not.

[lloyd christmas]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

- All white people are racist. Actually racist against minorities.

- The current border situation is ok

- Abortion should be allowed for any reason on the day of delivery (this one *never* survives contact with a parent, and only rarely survives with anyone else)

- 5 year olds should be given irreversible hormones if they think they are a different gender

- The police are systemically killing unarmed black people (have to be able to cite FBI statistics)

- Homeless people should be free to live the way they are living now in most cities

Over and over and over I'm amazed at how quickly these insane ideas disintegrate upon the first instance of the well-intentioned liberal having to explain it to someone who isn't making fun of them, using some stupid nickname to describe their affiliation, or (and this is the big one) implying right off the bat that anyone who's would vote for a politician who supports/makes these claims must be stupid, unpatriotic, or evil.

Every situation or narrative you listed above has either been created by, promoted, defended or championed by democrats.  Elected democrats aren’t changing their stance on the policies that created these issues, they are doubling down.  Every day there are more examples of Democrat policies getting more and more insane. Hopefully, November 8th will be a wake up call for democrats.  

Edited October 28, 2022 by lloyd christmas

[ClearedHot]

100%

it is my belief that the vast majority of Americans are in the middle sharing views form both parties.  The bifurcation is pushed by the extremes of both parties.  For years the far right has pushed religious based agendas but that pales in comparison to extreme progressive agenda that in many ways wants to literally destroy the United States as it exists today.  I would love to see us get back to the middle, but with the universities and press controlled by the left it is going to be an uphill battle.

It is almost comical, to be lectured by this cat.  I have been lambasted on this forum for saying I am pro-choice.  I've also said I want to Trump to go away and I am in favor and support Gay Rights yet he defaults to lumping me into the hard core right wing and without knowing me or what I did judges my career as a failure.  Oh well it is a free country and I believe in the first amendment even if you are insulting me and saying something I don't agree with...Murica 🇺🇸.

 

[Lord Ratner]

36 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

Every situation or narrative you listed above has either been created by, promoted, defended or championed by democrats.  Elected democrats aren’t changing their stance on the policies that created these issues, they are doubling down.  Every day there are more examples of Democrat policies getting more and more insane. Hopefully, November 8th will be a wake up call for democrats.  

Yes... That's exactly my point. Welcome.

 

But if your can't distinguish between Democratic politicians/activists/academics and the Democratic voters, then there will be no progress 

 

Elections are not going to wake them up. Meaningful interactions with conservatives who can demonstrate a sane alternative to their no-longer-sane party, will. This was always the problem with Trump; he could very effectively communicate the hypocrisies and insanities of the political left, but only to Republicans. His pure odiousness was anathema to anyone you'd actually want to persuade. As anyone in the Air Force heard a million times, perception matters.

[FourFans]

7 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Yes... That's exactly my point. Welcome.

 

But if your can't distinguish between Democratic politicians/activists/academics and the Democratic voters, then there will be no progress 

 

Elections are not going to wake them up. Meaningful interactions with conservatives who can demonstrate a sane alternative to their no-longer-sane party, will. This was always the problem with Trump; he could very effectively communicate the hypocrisies and insanities of the political left, but only to Republicans. His pure odiousness was anathema to anyone you'd actually want to persuade. As anyone in the Air Force heard a million times, perception matters.

So what is your solution here?  If classically liberal (not crazy) Democrat voters continue to vote democrat right now, they continue to vote for the insanity.  I sincerely want a Democratic party that polices itself...yet a whole bunch of extreme left politicians continue to get elected.

Are D voters waying to be recognized as 'not as extreme as the people we voted for' before they come to their senses and STOP electing these people?  Sounds pretty millennial, and I refuse.  I've had celebration of other people emotions shoved down my throat for long enough.

I understand your view of the problem, and I agree.  20 years in the AF taught me that admiring problems is really popular, really easy, and entirely worthless.  What's your solution?

 

Pro Tip: If you have an honest and genuine answer, it won't involve the word "Trump".  I get that you hate him, so do I. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by FourFans130

[Lord Ratner]

3 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

So what is your solution here?  If classically liberal (not crazy) Democrat voters continue to vote democrat right now, they continue to vote for the insanity.  I sincerely want a Democrat party that polices itself...yet a whole bunch of extreme left politicians continue to get elected.

I understand your view of the problem, and I agree.  20 years in the AF taught me that admiring problems is really popular, and completely worthless.  What's your solution?

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution. Those conversations have to happen without all of the usual conversational violations that shut down any chance of consensus or persuasion. Some examples:

- Strawmanning 

- Acting as though the person you're talking to is responsible for, or agrees with, all the ideas/opinions of someone else just because they voted for the same party

- Assumption of ill-intent

- Using perjoratives to describe the party or the politicians they support our have supported. This is an implicit insult. "That fucking moron Joe Biden," for example, implies that anyone who voted for him must also be stupid, because only an idiot would vote for an idiot. Libtards is another example.

- Spiking the football when you prove them wrong

- Forcing someone to own a previously held opinion even though they may have changed their mind since then.

 

You get the idea. It's all the exact same shit the liberals have been doing to conservatives for as long as I've been alive. But this isn't about what's fair, because it's not at all fair; it's about what works. Conservatives, as a group and as individuals, have to decide if they want to fix the society, or be viewed as the winners of a battle. Those are mutually exclusive goals.

[Lord Ratner]

25 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

I have been lambasted on this forum for saying I am pro-choice.

Good Lord, you must have been a real treat to give "feedback" to. So much for thick skin.

 

You weren't lambasted for being pro choice, you were lambasted (specifically, I called you an idiot) for doing exactly what we're talking about now:

On 5/10/2022 at 11:13 AM, ClearedHot said:

I presume all the fervent pro-life folks here have forced their wives to remove their IUDs. 

Then you tried to play dumb that that wasn't an intentionally inflammatory and reductionist attack instead of just starting the conversation. 

 

[lloyd christmas]

13 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution. Those conversations have to happen without all of the usual conversational violations that shut down any chance of consensus or persuasion. Some examples:

- Strawmanning 

- Acting as though the person you're talking to is responsible for, or agrees with, all the ideas/opinions of someone else just because they voted for the same party

- Assumption of ill-intent

- Using perjoratives to describe the party or the politicians they support our have supported. This is an implicit insult. "That fucking moron Joe Biden," for example, implies that anyone who voted for him must also be stupid, because only an idiot would vote for an idiot. Libtards is another example.

- Spiking the football when you prove them wrong

- Forcing someone to own a previously held opinion even though they may have changed their mind since then.

You get the idea. It's all the exact same shit the liberals have been doing to conservatives for as long as I've been alive. But this isn't about what's fair, because it's not at all fair; it's about what works. Conservatives, as a group and as individuals, have to decide if they want to fix the society, or be viewed as the winners of a battle. Those are mutually exclusive goals.

“Conservatives have to talk to liberals”.  Have you seen what happens when conservative speakers show up on college campuses?  

You don’t get to blame conservatives for the lack of productive conversation, insults or straw-manning.  Not even close.  It is the Democrat party and the left that is the party of division and hate.  It is intentional and designed to increase power, both personally and politically.  Reference words like bigot, racist, sexist, ableist, homophobe, nazi, white supremacist, extremist, etc.  

I agree, the average moderate Democrat isn’t some raging member of the squad.  However, you can’t ignore the progressive left’s tactics, language or policies.  The Democrat party owns it all.  The solution is for the Democrat party to police itself.   Not continue to blame republicans.  

 

[Lord Ratner]

4 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

“Conservatives have to talk to liberals”.  Have you seen what happens when conservative speakers show up on college campuses?  

You don’t get to blame conservatives for the lack of productive conversation, insults or straw-manning.  Not even close.  It is the Democrat party and the left that is the party of division and hate.  It is intentional and designed to increase power, both personally and politically.  Reference words like bigot, racist, sexist, ableist, homophobe, nazi, white supremacist, extremist, etc.  

I agree, the average moderate Democrat isn’t some raging member of the squad.  However, you can’t ignore the progressive left’s tactics, language or policies.  The Democrat party owns it all.  The solution is for the Democrat party to police itself.   Not continue to blame republicans.  

 

 

51 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

It's all the exact same shit the liberals have been doing to conservatives for as long as I've been alive. But this isn't about what's fair, because it's not at all fair; it's about what works.

Good luck. That's never worked on the past, but maybe this time will be different...

 

51 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives, as a group and as individuals, have to decide if they want to fix the society, or be viewed as the winners of a battle. Those are mutually exclusive goals.

 

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. 

Liberals champion censorship this negating your proposed solution. 
 

You cannot ban people from Twitter & college campus speaking engagements while simultaneously blaming them for not engaging in conversation.