The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Blue]

11 hours ago, O Face said:

I doubt Kirby even knows what it means, but yes I agree, Uncle Sugar has his hand up Kirby’s ass far enough to get his fvckin lips to say whatever horseshit he wants. 

Scott Kirby (United CEO) is a particularly interesting example.  Opinions of the guy vary, be I don't think it can be denied that he's a pretty intelligent guy who knows how to run an airline.

His Linkedin profile is pretty active, with posts several times a week.  Scrolling through there, you'd think that diversity is the single biggest challenge facing the airline, with climate change a close second.  Every once in a great while, he talks about serving customers, fixing airplanes, flying airplanes, etc.  You know, real airline stuff.

Kirby is not an idiot.  He knows diversity, climate change, and similar ilk are bullshit.  But he also knows that the airline industry is beholden to the federal government, through both regulation, as well as the fact that the us govt. is one of United's biggest customers.

When Uncle Sam says his priorities are Diversity and Climate Change, Kirby (and other CEOs) march in lock-step.

Guys like that don't get to the corner office by "fighting City Hall."

[dream big]

4 hours ago, brabus said:

Woke-related: the meltdown from the progressives over Elon’s twitter acquisition is nothing short of hilarious, but also still shocking how incredibly delusional so many people are.

One gem of a tweet: “Nearly every American media institution is now openly right-wing”. That is some next-level delusion/ignorance. 
 

When you are so far left, nearly everything is now far right. Close family member hates Biden and Kamala, not for the reasons you would think. It’s because they aren’t liberal enough. 

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution. Those conversations have to happen without all of the usual conversational violations that shut down any chance of consensus or persuasion. Some examples:

- Strawmanning 

- Acting as though the person you're talking to is responsible for, or agrees with, all the ideas/opinions of someone else just because they voted for the same party

- Assumption of ill-intent

- Using perjoratives to describe the party or the politicians they support our have supported. This is an implicit insult. "That fucking moron Joe Biden," for example, implies that anyone who voted for him must also be stupid, because only an idiot would vote for an idiot. Libtards is another example.

- Spiking the football when you prove them wrong

- Forcing someone to own a previously held opinion even though they may have changed their mind since then.

 

You get the idea. It's all the exact same shit the liberals have been doing to conservatives for as long as I've been alive. But this isn't about what's fair, because it's not at all fair; it's about what works. Conservatives, as a group and as individuals, have to decide if they want to fix the society, or be viewed as the winners of a battle. Those are mutually exclusive goals.

So I understand this correctly:  Your solution to the democratic party being overtaken by the ideology of their small, yet extreme, violent, and exceedingly outspoken minority, is to have conservatives talk those extremists out of being extreme in polite and kind ways? 

Wouldn't it make more sense for moderate democrats, such as yourself, to do that, or simply overwhelm the extreme element by voting in non-extremists?  We've see the past couple years what happens when conservatives stick up for what they believe in.  Extremists liberals quite literally shit, spit, riot, and protest all over moderate conservatives for simply saying "no" to the extreme agendas. 

How did you come to your conclusion that it's the conservative's job to save the country, and not the democrat's to police their own fools?

[Biff_T]

Are we (The United States) better off now than 2 years ago?  If so vote the same if not change it up.  

I'm so woke right now. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Biff_T

[VMFA187]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution.

Hahaha. That's funny. I've attempted legitimate conversations to discuss issues but end up getting yelled at, by friends even, because many of those on the left are driven by their emotions and feelings on issues, not actual facts. 

Look at any attempt for a conservative spokesperson to speak at a college campus - Liberals/leftists start yelling, screaming, and completely shut down any ability to have a discussion. 

[GrndPndr]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution. Those conversations have to happen without all of the usual conversational violations that shut down any chance of consensus or persuasion. Some examples:

<snip>

Can only assume you are talking about a situation where that conversation is completely private?  Any public "discourse" will be instantly tainted by the press (both left and right), all the indoctrinees (public) will choose the the news that fits their indoctrination - and the whole thing will be dead in the water.

"Set takeoff power!"

"Uh sir, we don't have any engines, not even an APU."

"Well, I was hoping."

[ClearedHot]

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Good Lord, you must have been a real treat to give "feedback" to. So much for thick skin.

I happily take feedback from supervisors, subordinates, colleagues and people I care about.  Random social justice warriors on the internet, not so much. 

A quick review, you don't like what I post, I am an idiot, I am an asshole, I was a horrible officer and I don't take feedback.  You've stalked my profile, quoted my old posts and pointed out all of misguided posts and faulty logic...what next, are you going to slide into my DMs?  But I am the one trying to "keep it real on the internet?"  Seriously, you might need a new hobby.

You do realize it is a web forum...Labeled "Squadron Bar"...I know you want to speak loudest and insult everyone so you can win the debrief but seriously a bit of perspective might help your blood pressure.

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

Hahaha. That's funny. I've attempted legitimate conversations to discuss issues but end up getting yelled at, by friends even, because many of those on the left are driven by their emotions and feelings on issues, not actual facts. 

Look at any attempt for a conservative spokesperson to speak at a college campus - Liberals/leftists start yelling, screaming, and completely shut down any ability to have a discussion. 

Amen

The left has no tolerance for discussion...it is take no prisoners, our agenda at all costs.

Look no further than the events that happened to Paul Pelosi last night.  It is slowly coming out that this guy believes there is a conspiracy behind the COVID vaccine and the Jan 6 investigation.  Dude is clearly a nutjob but less than 8 hours after the attack a California Democrat is running an add linking the attack to the GOP.  This after Nancy Pelosi's daughter CHEERED the same thing happening to Rand Paul.

 

[chris99]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Conservatives have to talk to liberals. That's the solution. Those conversations have to happen without all of the usual conversational violations that shut down any chance of consensus or persuasion. Some examples:

- Strawmanning 

- Acting as though the person you're talking to is responsible for, or agrees with, all the ideas/opinions of someone else just because they voted for the same party

- Assumption of ill-intent

- Using perjoratives to describe the party or the politicians they support our have supported. This is an implicit insult. "That ing moron Joe Biden," for example, implies that anyone who voted for him must also be stupid, because only an idiot would vote for an idiot. Libtards is another example.

- Spiking the football when you prove them wrong

- Forcing someone to own a previously held opinion even though they may have changed their mind since then.

 

You get the idea. It's all the exact same shit the liberals have been doing to conservatives for as long as I've been alive. But this isn't about what's fair, because it's not at all fair; it's about what works. Conservatives, as a group and as individuals, have to decide if they want to fix the society, or be viewed as the winners of a battle. Those are mutually exclusive goals.

 

1 hour ago, GrndPndr said:

Can only assume you are talking about a situation where that conversation is completely private?  Any public "discourse" will be instantly tainted by the press (both left and right), all the indoctrinees (public) will choose the the news that fits their indoctrination - and the whole thing will be dead in the water.

"Set takeoff power!"

"Uh sir, we don't have any engines, not even an APU."

"Well, I was hoping."

Ratner is 100% spot on here (except he should not have just singled out conservatives). And he is most-assuredly speaking about private conversations with liberals. Unless you can have a rational conversation with someone of the opposing viewpoint, nothing is going to change. Some people might be too far gone to have a rational conversation with, but from my experience, if you try to put yourself in their shoes, go have a beer together, and not talk solely politics and religion; you should have at least a little success in establishing some rapport and being able to have a productive dialogue.

We also need term limits and at least one other viable party to vote for to break out of this funk in my opinion. I think the FairTax (H.R. 25) would help as well because it would abolish the IRS and curb lobbyism/tax loopholes.

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

The left has no tolerance for discussion...it is take no prisoners, our agenda at all costs.

Look no further than the events that happened to Paul Pelosi last night.  It is slowly coming out that this guy believes there is a conspiracy behind the COVID vaccine and the Jan 6 investigation.  Dude is clearly a nutjob but less than 8 hours after the attack a California Democrat is running an add linking the attack to the GOP.  This after Nancy Pelosi's daughter CHEERED the same thing happening to Rand Paul.

I like how you say the left has no tolerance for discussion, then gloss over the fact some dude from the right literally tried to kill the speaker of the house with a goddamn hammer.

[Lord Ratner]

5 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Liberals champion censorship this negating your proposed solution. 
 

You cannot ban people from Twitter & college campus speaking engagements while simultaneously blaming them for not engaging in conversation.

Again, separate what Trump might call "the elite" from the voters. Your average run-of-the-mill Democratic voter does not support censorship. Just like they don't support defunding the police. Censorship is exactly how the Democratic elite intend to maintain their control over their voters. Keep *you* from talking to them. 

 

If we throw up our hands because they censor a few prominent conservatives, they win. Believe it or not, you aren't censored, and the loudest conservatives are making millions. Don't buy into a narrative that isn't true.

 

[waveshaper]

"some dude from the right literally tried to kill the speaker of the house with a goddamn hammer." 

The media had to use this type of language in their headlines to get mega viewers/ratings.

If the headline had been "Paul Pelosi Gets Hammered" nobody would have read the story and think everything is normal...

[Guardian]

We should outlaw hammers!!!!!!

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

So I understand this correctly:  Your solution to the democratic party being overtaken by the ideology of their small, yet extreme, violent, and exceedingly outspoken minority, is to have conservatives talk those extremists out of being extreme in polite and kind ways? 

No. Literally the opposite. You have to talk to the non-extremists. When the "regular" Democrats realize the descriptions of conservatives as evil and hateful  (characterizations that cannot survive an intimate dialog) are made up nonsense, they will not feel like their party is "the only option for their views."

4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Wouldn't it make more sense for moderate democrats, such as yourself, to do that, or simply overwhelm the extreme element by voting in non-extremists?  We've see the past couple years what happens when conservatives stick up for what they believe in.  Extremists liberals quite literally shit, spit, riot, and protest all over moderate conservatives for simply saying "no" to the extreme agendas. 

I am 75% conservative, and while I despise both parties, I overwhelmingly side with the Republicans. I am certainly no Democrat. Never once voted for one. That's my point. Conservatives are spending all their time talking to each other. It's not going to fix anything. The hard work of reaching out falls to us. Is it fair? No. But if we don't fix it, who will?

4 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

How did you come to your conclusion that it's the conservative's job to save the country, and not the democrat's to police their own fools?

It's just one of the differences between conservative and liberal humans. We conserve. We defend and reinforce necessary systems. Liberals identify failings and bring attention to them. Neither side can succeed without the other, but not neither side will interact. Conservatives abandoned academia and government after the 60s. College got stupid, but conservatives shrugged. "The college kids will grow out of that when reality hits them." How'd that work out?

4 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Hahaha. That's funny. I've attempted legitimate conversations to discuss issues but end up getting yelled at, by friends even, because many of those on the left are driven by their emotions and feelings on issues, not actual facts. 

Yup. Not easy to go against a 24 hour news cycle or social media outrage machine. But what is your alternative? It's not getting better, and now the conservatives are starting to do the same shit liberals do. Just look at Jan 6th. Conservatives *never* used to riot. 

4 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

Can only assume you are talking about a situation where that conversation is completely private? 

Absolutely. A private conversation where you can ask questions and exchange opinions. 

 

2 hours ago, chris99 said:

but from my experience, if you try to put yourself in their shoes, go have a beer together, and not talk solely politics and religion; you should have at least a little success in establishing some rapport and being able to have a productive dialogue.

Shack.

 

It's amazing how far you can get in a conversation simply by doing nothing but asking questions, especially when you are attacked. When my mother in law said that the anti-abortion crowd is evil, during a conversation where I was definitely against abortion, all I had to do was ask "do you think I'm evil? Is your daughter?" Then wait. Let the wheels turn, which can't happen if you go on the attack.

 

Someone said the left is all emotion. 100% true. But emotion can be overruled by thought and reason, if thought and reason are invoked.

My favorite Jordan Peterson quote: "in order to think, you must be able to speak."

 

Liberals (voters, NOT activists) aren't speaking, because we aren't speaking to them anymore. If we don't find a way to talk with them about our reality, do we really think they are going to stumble upon it on their own?

[Day Man]

21 minutes ago, waveshaper said:

"some dude from the right literally tried to kill the speaker of the house with a goddamn hammer." 

The media had to use this type of language in their headlines to get mega viewers/ratings.

If the headline had been "Paul Pelosi Gets Hammered" nobody would have read the story and think everything is normal...

 

 

not here...did you conjure this up to justify some presupposed bias?

[waveshaper]

"not here...did you conjure this up to justify some presupposed bias?"

My response probably belongs over in "Lighten Up Francis":

 

[GrndPndr]

1 hour ago, Day Man said:

I like how you say the left has no tolerance for discussion, then gloss over the fact some dude from the right literally tried to kill the speaker of the house with a goddamn hammer.

Yes, you did just drop the other shoe.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, (if different from the usual).  Wait, this will play out as usual, with the left saying something must be done with the "Right wing MAGA nuts."  Yep, that's the way they roll!

[arg]

3 hours ago, Day Man said:

 

 

not here...did you conjure this up to justify some presupposed bias?

Dude should be treated like he assaulted any other person.

[kaputt]

12 minutes ago, arg said:

Dude should be treated like he assaulted any other person.

Well it’s California, so if they follow their standard he should be back on the street tomorrow. 

[bfargin]

Of course Biden and Obama bin Laden (the master of division) calling for unity of sorts. Pot meet kettle.

Leadership on both sides realize there are tons of mentally disturbed people (homos/trans/antifa/supremacists/etc) running around without any true support system in place. It's easy to get them spun up and some of them are willing to act out inappropriately/illegally.

[arg]

7 hours ago, Day Man said:

 

 

not here...did you conjure this up to justify some presupposed bias?

Also not the first time he's been hammered. He just wasn't driving this time.

[Prozac]

5 hours ago, bfargin said:

Of course Biden and Obama bin Laden (the master of division) calling for unity of sorts. Pot meet kettle.

Leadership on both sides realize there are tons of mentally disturbed people (homos/trans/antifa/supremacists/etc) running around without any true support system in place. It's easy to get them spun up and some of them are willing to act out inappropriately/illegally.

Ya know, it certainly doesn’t do much for unity or engaging with the other side when you refer to the  gay community as “mentally disturbed” and “homos”. 

[ClearedHot]

12 hours ago, Day Man said:

I like how you say the left has no tolerance for discussion, then gloss over the fact some dude from the right literally tried to kill the speaker of the house with a goddamn hammer.

Political violence is never acceptable, it makes us look like a banana republic.  Clearly both sides have nut jobs that act out.  Hardly glossing over it, did we know he was from the right in the first few hours?  From what I've read so far he seems like a mental patient (nude activist), that has posted many conspiracy theories.  This morning I read he supported Trump and has posted some QAnon BS, so clearly NOW we now there is some kind of fringe association to the right, but most of what I have seen indicates a mentally disturbed person.  Just curious did you post the same outrage when a left wing dude showed up at Brett Kavanaugh's house to assassinate him before he could vote to overturn Roe V Wade?  How about when a left wing lunatic went to a Congressional charity baseball game and shot a sitting Congressman for political reasons (Steve Scalise)? 

And to be clear, any politically motivated attack like this, regardless of party affiliation, is just wrong.  Can we just agree on that?

[FLEA]

Bill Maher just described the political climate in the country as a Cold Civil War and I think that might be really appropriate. Like a Cold War, the violence is minimal, and often by proxy. But the contempt both sides of America have for each other right now would certainly indicate we are not in a period of peace and cooperation. 

[Biff_T]

What's next?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/29/us/real-vampires-new-orleans-atlanta-cec/index.html