The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[nsplayr]

8 hours ago, brabus said:

Another mental health case kills kids in a school, and predictably all the dems can talk about is gun laws. Not one mention of the shooter’s mental health illness, specifically trans in this case. They do not give one genuine fuck about saving kids, they care only about power. I’ll keep saying it, if all you talk about is guns and don’t talk about/do anything to address mental health and societal issues, you do not care about kids at all because you refuse to identify and address the RC.

Would you support Tennessee expanding Medicaid? I live here and I do. That would put a ton of resources into mental health for those at or near the poverty line, and it’s a very good deal given that the federal rather than state government pays the bulk of the added costs.

But the Republican leaders here who control almost every aspect of the state government have not and do not. Tennessee is below average in almost every way when it comes to caring for people with mental illnesses.

Dems here would 1000% be on board for more mental health spending and expanding access…submit the bill you’d like to see GOP TNLEG folks, we’re in the minority and cannot control the floor.

OTOH this mental health argument is always made when there is a mass shooting (ie all the time unfortunately!) and I always ask why does the US have so many more mass shootings and suicides by firearm when our mental illness numbers largely track with other counties? Like, we’re not a massive outlier in mental health problems, although mental health is a very serious issue I want to deal either, but we are a massive outlier in mass shootings in particular. Why do you think that is?

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, Biff_T said:

 What if they put as much energy towards helping the homeless as they do with trans issues?

Biff, I love ya man but this is you rn…and it’ll probably be me in another 30 years or so!

 

The only people I hear constantly harping about trans issues are old cranky GOP men and state legislators, and that Venn diagram has a lot of overlap 😅

Look I don’t fully get the issues trans people are dealing with, and parents should obviously have a say in their children’s medical care, but it’s like such a 0.1% issue I have a hard time caring at all. Adults can do whatever they want frankly.

p.s. - if you want to nearly homelessness, stop holding up permitting reform and stop doing NIMBY historical character preservation nonsense and let developers build a ton of new apartments in whatever town you live in. And FWIW I am 100% walking this talk in suburban/exurban Nashville. Build build build.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[CaptainMorgan]

Biff, I love ya man but this is you rn…and it’ll probably be me in another 30 years or so!

 
The only people I hear constantly harping about trans issues are old cranky GOP men and state legislators, and that Venn diagram has a lot of overlap
Look I don’t fully get the issues trans people are dealing with, and parents should obviously have a say in their children’s medical care, but it’s like such a 0.1% issue I have a hard time caring at all. Adults can do whatever they want frankly.
p.s. - if you want to nearly homelessness, stop holding up permitting reform and stop doing NIMBY historical character preservation nonsense and let developers build a ton of new apartments in whatever town you live in. And FWIW I am 100% walking this talk in suburban/exurban Nashville. Build build build.

Uh, if adults can do whatever we want, can we opt out taxes that support things we disapprove of?


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[CaptainMorgan]

Biff, I love ya man but this is you rn…and it’ll probably be me in another 30 years or so!

 
The only people I hear constantly harping about trans issues are old cranky GOP men and state legislators, and that Venn diagram has a lot of overlap
Look I don’t fully get the issues trans people are dealing with, and parents should obviously have a say in their children’s medical care, but it’s like such a 0.1% issue I have a hard time caring at all. Adults can do whatever they want frankly.
p.s. - if you want to nearly homelessness, stop holding up permitting reform and stop doing NIMBY historical character preservation nonsense and let developers build a ton of new apartments in whatever town you live in. And FWIW I am 100% walking this talk in suburban/exurban Nashville. Build build build.

Another reply, If we shot your dumb ass, would your wife let a homeless man off the streets to take your place?


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[Day Man]

4 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

 

So yes, Hell-in-a-handbasket here we come (wait, we're already there).

hey, it's not all bad news!

 

[Smokin]

8 hours ago, Sim said:

Very impressive work by cops. 

Great to see there are still people in our country that run toward the sound of gunfire.  Good on that cop wearing the body cam both figuratively and literally pushing any of his fellow cops that appeared to slow down.  A plan of nothing more than 'run to the sound of the gunshots and shoot that person' violently executed right now is better than SEAL team six showing up in 5 minutes.

Now if only we can get some of the front office people armed and doors that consist of more than glass, we might have a chance at this being a page three news article about someone being killed trying to break into a school.

[Pooter]

Appalling mainstream media reaction aside.. I see a lot of people talking about mental health and how family or someone should notice the warning signs and just because I'm the asshole who always has to play devils advocate..

How would that actually work? People going through deep mental health problems often purposefully conceal it from the friends and family. This is really common in cases of suicide as well. Not to mention your family are probably the least likely people on earth to suspect you of potentially committing mass murder. You extend benefit of the doubt to family by default. I think it's so easy to say "how did they not see it" when it's someone else's kid but if it was our kid I doubt most of us would. 
 

Even if you suspect something is off, most people wouldn't immediately jump to report a family member to a government watch list red flagging them for gun ownership. That's quite the leap with potentially life ruining consequences. 
 

This is why I find the right's "mental health" argument just as disingenuous as the left's "guns are the problem" argument. Copy broken homes with shitty parenting produce bad kids. But you can't un-ring that bell. Much in the same way you can't un-ring the bell of there being hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation in America. 
 

And neither side of the political aisle seems to want to actually do something about guns or mental health when they have the power to. Dems controlled the house, senate, and presidency until last November and didn't do crap. Likewise republicans just say "mental health problem" to deflect without ever proposing any public funding or resources to fix our supposed mental health problem. 

Mass shootings are literally a fad / social contagion and I worry that the political parties using them as a bat to whack each other with does nothing more than prolong the fad's popularity. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Pooter

[bfargin]

Well, when the alleged mental health professionals have been overtaken by idiots who claim that homo/trans is just another normal choice, no matter how much money you provide, they aren’t going to actually help these mentally disturbed people make rational decisions and regain some cognitive balance.
 

When truth is ignored (men can be women and vice versa) and value for life is minimized (abortion on demand), then we as a society aren’t going to really value truth or life. With no absolute truth, everything is subjective and at the whim of the individual. As shown above by Huggys link, the trans community is blaming normal people for that douchebag’s murder of kids.

[HuggyU2]

Reposting due to technical error...

 

[dream big]

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Would you support Tennessee expanding Medicaid? I live here and I do. That would put a ton of resources into mental health for those at or near the poverty line, and it’s a very good deal given that the federal rather than state government pays the bulk of the added costs.

But the Republican leaders here who control almost every aspect of the state government have not and do not. Tennessee is below average in almost every way when it comes to caring for people with mental illnesses.

Dems here would 1000% be on board for more mental health spending and expanding access…submit the bill you’d like to see GOP TNLEG folks, we’re in the minority and cannot control the floor.

OTOH this mental health argument is always made when there is a mass shooting (ie all the time unfortunately!) and I always ask why does the US have so many more mass shootings and suicides by firearm when our mental illness numbers largely track with other counties? Like, we’re not a massive outlier in mental health problems, although mental health is a very serious issue I want to deal either, but we are a massive outlier in mass shootings in particular. Why do you think that is?

We are a massive and diverse population. While that’s mostly a good thing, it comes with some disadvantages and dissent. While our mental health may be on line with other nations, I believe our culture has declined over the past 15-20 years. As others have mentioned, we have seen a trend away from proper parenting and upbringing. The younger generations are self centered and entitled. Look at the drop in recruiting numbers. We stopped caring about others and treating our fellow neighbors with love and respect. Only Biff was around then but back in the 50s the availability of guns was the same but mass shootings almost never happened, why do you think that is?

We also value individual freedoms such as the right to bear arms at the expense of a little security. What happened is absolutely tragic and one child is one too many, but I’d rather live in a country where I can protect my loved ones with a (very small) chance of anyone I know being involved in a mass shooting, vice a country without said liberties but “safer.” 

[Lord Ratner]

7 hours ago, nsplayr said:

p.s. - if you want to nearly homelessness, stop holding up permitting reform and stop doing NIMBY historical character preservation nonsense and let developers build a ton of new apartments in whatever town you live in. And FWIW I am 100% walking this talk in suburban/exurban Nashville. Build build build.

Homelessness has nothing to do with homebuilding and everything to do with drug use.

 

You'd accomplish precisely nothing by putting addicts in the suburbs, except for maybe freaking out a lot of soccer moms.

[SurelySerious]

I’d like to see the person who can’t hold a fast food job because of mental illness/drug use magically afford a place of living because someone just built a dwelling. Sounds fantastic…al.

[herkbier]

6 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

I’d like to see the person who can’t hold a fast food job because of mental illness/drug use magically afford a place of living because someone just built a dwelling. Sounds fantastic…al.

They don’t need to afford it, that’s the taxpayers job 

[brabus]

15 hours ago, nsplayr said:

always ask why does the US have so many more mass shootings and suicides by firearm when our mental illness numbers largely track with other counties?

To your first (unquoted) point, I don’t know that Medicaid is the answer, but I am for diverting money from colossally wasteful spending and putting it towards mental health services. To be clear, I do not support more total spending or new taxes, I support throwing Peter off the cliff to pay Paul.  

Firearms (or hammers, or prescription drugs, etc.) is irrelevant. What’s relevant is we have a systemic issue with not just mental health, but also rapidly declining societal norms and values. Those two things tied together are the RC of our issues that manifest in many ways, one of them being evil shitheads who shoot kids. Grndpndr’s post is a small visual presentation of that. But most importantly, we collectively see far less value in other human life than we used to. We’re not ISIS, but we’re sliding that way (in terms of zero fucks given for the lives of others who aren’t us/our circle). So why has this happened? I could list a thousand things that have driven our society down the toilet, and I believe we specifically have declined further than other first world countries (likely because we have more money and innovative capability that has netted us some really negative things, amongst all the great stuff too of course).

[FLEA]

7 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Homelessness has nothing to do with homebuilding and everything to do with drug use.

 

You'd accomplish precisely nothing by putting addicts in the suburbs, except for maybe freaking out a lot of soccer moms.

Id argue its both. People tend to turn to drugs as a cheap release when they are economically struggling. Home prices are soaring right now. Its absolutely bonkers what's going on in the real estate market. Interest rates are so high that sellers are holding on to homes now because they are in fear of downsizing and getting worse terms on a new mortgage. We are at a point where the high interest rates have had the opposite effect intended and are actually reducing supply even more. 

The struggle with housing is nobody wants to give. High density housing drastically reduces the prices of homes in a given geographic area. But people see homes as investments, and so reducing the price of housing is not something people generally want. This is a system that favors the established and perpetuates suffering for the unestablished. In fact, as a home owner, it is in my best interest to do every thing I can with my vote to keep housing supply low and to encourage housing cost to go higher. 

nsplayr is 100% right that housing is a NIMBY issue. Democrats talk big on it all of the time but you can pull voting data on zoning in heavily democratic cities like SF or Chicago and clearly see that every time a proposal for high density comes up, your rich silicon valley or wall street banker types immediately down vote it out of consideration. 

You are right about drug use. But the link between drug use and poverty is pretty defined at this point. And the current state of housing is a major contributor to poverty. 

I'm willing to bet based on the trend line we are on culture starts changing to be more like what you see in Asia. It will become more common for people to live with their parents into their 30s, even after marriage and kids. This isn't entirely a bad thing. Younger Americans will have less independence, but they will have more tolerance for career risk and familial units will generally be tighter. 

[Biff_T]

Let's build some affordable homes in Martha's Vineyard!   

My favorite part about homelessness in So Cal is going surfing a few days after it rains to find needles all over the beach.  This happens every single time it rains here.  Needles and trash.   Yet our (CA) leadership cries about protecting the environment.  The last time I checked, the ocean is part of the environment.  Our cities (Los Angeles, Long Beach, and etc...) are decaying.  It's a piece of shit now.   I wouldn’t advise tourists to come and visit.  It's a scam.  You'll feel like you paid a fuck ton of money only to visit a crappy carnival that smells like shit.  Disneyland is an overpriced liberal indoctrination camp.   Our roads are worse than an Iraqi runway on March 21, 2003.  Yet, Newsom is the next good thing?  He's helped ruin my state.   My favorite part is the SF reparations committee who have came up with a plan to pay people more than our entire state budget. All the while, SF is a shell of what it used to be. Tell me this makes sense.  

Go woke, go broke I guess?   

Let's keep voting blindly along party lines without doing any research about what we're voting for.  That seems like it's working.  Let's not focus on reality and give everyone a choice to literally become whatever they want.  Let's change the way we identify men and women.  Because changing what we call them makes our science true.  Let's blame people today for things done 100s of years before we were born.  Let's act like taking guns from law biding citizens will do anything to prevent mass shootings by criminals.   Let's dumb down our schools so anyone can get in, regardless if they have a 1.5 GPA.  Everytime we disagree with someone, let's call them a facist.  Let's pretend that our side can do nothing wrong.   Let's pretend that the people in Congress aren't insider trading. Let's pretend that our leaders really care about us.   

Edited March 29, 2023 by Biff_T
Ingles es muy dificil

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Firearms (or hammers, or prescription drugs, etc.) is irrelevant. What’s relevant is we have a systemic issue with not just mental health, but also rapidly declining societal norms and values. Those two things tied together are the RC of our issues that manifest in many ways, one of them being evil shitheads who shoot kids. Grndpndr’s post is a small visual presentation of that. But most importantly, we collectively see far less value in other human life than we used to. We’re not ISIS, but we’re sliding that way (in terms of zero fucks given for the lives of others who aren’t us/our circle). So why has this happened? I could list a thousand things that have driven our society down the toilet, and I believe we specifically have declined further than other first world countries (likely because we have more money and innovative capability that has netted us some really negative things, amongst all the great stuff too of course).

I don't buy this argument any more than the mental health one. The entire western world has been trending more secular/woke/declining social fabric/whatever you want to call it for decades.. but we're the only country with a mass shooting every week. 

How do you even measure a nebulous concept like declining social fabric? Church attendance? Because that was certainly higher on 1950.. along with racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and men beating their wives.  The social fabric argument strikes me as another pie in the sky deflection because it doesn't come with any proposed solution. 

 

[Pooter]

FWIW the best near term solution for school shootings is probably hardening schools. Armed guards and secured entrances will help a lot. The problem is that if you put those in place it will likely drive the shootings somewhere else that isn't hardened. It's a bandaid fix for a symptom, not the root cause. 
 

One idea that could fix the root cause is if the media all came to a gentlemen's agreement to simply not report on the shooters. Some outlets have already figured this out.  I'm convinced the attention and notoriety is a huge part of what drives these things so if they refused to show names, faces, or any identifying information about mass shooters that would remove a lot of the incentive. 
 

The same goes for social media where "going viral" is valued over all else, so maybe removing the viral aspect of these tragedies is what needs to happen. You'll never be able to squash notoriety at a local level, but I'm convinced the nation/worldwide infamy you get after committing an atrocity is a big motivator for a disenfranchised mentally sick person looking to go out in a big way. 

[Biff_T]

34 minutes ago, Pooter said:

How do you even measure a nebulous concept like declining social fabric?

By how many mass shootings a country has perhaps?  

 

[VMFA187]

I mentioned to my wife I'd volunteer one day a month to guard my daughters school and she countered "but would you trust the other dads who would want to volunteer as well? They don't have the experience you do."

Maybe some training would be required for most, but I'd fucking stand guard. 

[Biff_T]

12 minutes ago, Pooter said:

 

One idea that could fix the root cause is if the media all came to a gentlemen's agreement to simply not report on the shooters. Some outlets have already figured this out.  I'm convinced the attention and notoriety is a huge part of what drives these things so if they refused to show names, faces, or any identifying information about mass shooters that would remove a lot of the incentive

This.

What will they choose though? Money and power or doing what's best for our nation?   I've read at least one history book and something tells me they will choose money and power.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by Biff_T

[Pooter]

11 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

By how many mass shootings a country has perhaps?  

 

😂 yes.. but I'm sure you're familiar with a circular argument

-why do we have so many mass shootings

-because of the degraded social fabric 

-why is our social fabric degraded

-because we have so many mass shootings

[Biff_T]

7 minutes ago, Pooter said:

😂 yes.. but I'm sure you're familiar with a circular argument

-why do we have so many mass shootings

-because of the degraded social fabric 

-why is our social fabric degraded

-because we have so many mass shootings

Yeah.  I was just being a smart ass.  Lol

[Biff_T]

 

 

 

[Pooter]

19 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

I mentioned to my wife I'd volunteer one day a month to guard my daughters school and she countered "but would you trust the other dads who would want to volunteer as well? They don't have the experience you do."

Maybe some training would be required for most, but I'd fucking stand guard. 

Not a bad idea. 
 

or use the national guard. We have roughly 400,000 national guard members and 100,000 public schools so that's roughly 4 guards per school right there. Obviously it wouldn't be full time so you'd have to involve police and volunteers as well but it's certainly doable.

Or cut aid to Ukraine by 10% and you've financed a years salary for privately hired guards at every school for a decade