The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[O Face]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

Not a bad idea. 
 

or use the national guard. We have roughly 400,000 national guard members and 100,000 public schools so that's roughly 4 guards per school right there. Obviously it wouldn't be full time so you'd have to involve police and volunteers as well but it's certainly doable.

Or cut aid to Ukraine by 10% and you've financed a years salary for privately hired guards at every school for a decade

I like yours and VMFA’s thoughts and I know some states have thought of this too, but what about arming willing teachers??!!  I can’t take the screaming you get when mentioning this novel idea. Is it any crazier than pilots being FFDO’s?  Of course not. Set up a training program, and teacher’s can go and then carry a gun to work instead of just sitting there waiting to soak up bullets.  Maybe it’ll give some of these pieces of shit something to think about, prior to walking unchallenged into a school and shooting the place up. 

[CaptainMorgan]

I like yours and VMFA’s thoughts and I know some states have thought of this too, but what about arming willing teachers??!!  I can’t take the screaming you get when mentioning this novel idea. Is it any crazier than pilots being FFDO’s?  Of course not. Set up a training program, and teacher’s can go and then carry a gun to work instead of just sitting there waiting to soak up bullets.  Maybe it’ll give some of these pieces of shit something to think about, prior to walking unchallenged into a school and shooting the place up. 

Teachers=democrats. Democrats+guns=bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[O Face]

40 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Teachers=democrats. Democrats+guns=bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Usually yes, but my wife isn’t. She’s a damn good shot too. 

[brabus]

@Pooter Ok, so the root cause is a specific type of inanimate object that is a motionless paperweight until a human with free will decides to be a POS and picks it up? Shitty diets, fast food, etc. kills WAY more people than firearms. Vehicle accidents kill double the people that guns do (I’m not counting suicides, many of those gun-related deaths are legal and justified, and many are criminal-on-criminal related, meaning no “innocent” people were killed). Where’s everyone calling for the ban of these inanimate objects that require human free will to use? 

The point of the above: it’s an illogical argument that inanimate objects are a RC of anything. Humans with free will are the RC of things based on the decisions they make (decide to kill someone, drive like a jackass, eat the 69th Big Mac even thought they have 3 different heart diseases).
 

- In 2020 we were still at a lower murder w/ gun rate than 1974, and 2020 was a bad year in general. Murder w/ gun rates was fairly stable from 2000-2015, and then made a sharp rise from there, despite increasing gun sales over that entire time period. In fact, gun sales have risen steadily while murders have sharply declined over decades until that significant rise in 2015. There’s literally a negative correlation between the two. Guns didn’t change, so what else did?

- # households with a gun has been DECLINING since the 60s, as increasing gun sales go to people with multiple (e.g. hunters and shooting hobbyists). Murderers using guns haven’t typically been the guy who has a large collection at home, it’s the deranged idiot who bought a gun last week/owns a couple or the gang banger/criminal who illegally acquired a gun and used it in nefarious activities (e.g. drug related).

- It was common place not that long ago to see school parking lots filled with guns. It was not that long ago when kids brought rifles into school and stuffed them in their locker for use later that day in a school-sanctioned shooting event or hunting after school. No school shootings happened during this time.

So, objectively and subjectively firearms do not have the correlation to un-justified murder that some people/gov members and the media want to claim. They are less involved in death than many other things in our country. They are a convenient boogeyman, but the facts do not support that “boogeyman status.”

So now we’re back to the start of this discussion - what has changed this century (roughly starting from Columbine) compared to the 20th century? Well, generally positive morals and values were far more important and cohesive family units were more prevalent in the past. People were far more likely to understand the value of human life, even if they didn’t like someone. People were more apt to care about a stranger than they are today. So yeah, society has changed for the worse and is ultimately driving worse behavior. Perhaps we’ve opened Pandora’s box and we can’t put it back in. But, I do believe concrete solutions involve mental health services and campaigns/grass roots to minimize things that lead to mental health issues (#1: be a good parent, #2: community involvement to teach caring about others/reduce selfishness). We need to look hard into tying mental health to firearm access; I’m undecided on the best way to do that, but clearly something needs to be done. I agree with your immediate solution of hardening schools. My kid’s school has many concealed carrying people in it -  every school should do this. Every school should have locked doors with controlled access. Combine those two things and you have a significant deterrent/significantly better chance of stopping a shooting/minimizing damage. 
 

Bottom line: I’m just as frustrated as others with how things are going in our country regarding murder, especially of children. I don’t want anyone’s kids to be in these situations. But, I want to actually solve the problem, and those who grasp at guns don’t give a fuck about solving the problem, as they are incapable or unwilling to identify the root cause and work towards solving that. It’s a difficult problem and I’m not arguing there’s an easy solution, but it’s disingenuous to say you care when all you do is yell #noguns in the face of the facts, with no effort put towards real solutions. 

[slc]

Another thought on all this is how media portrays all these events i.e. "in your face" all day long.  Compare that (as far as MSM coverage) w/ last nights Blackhawk crash x 2 that's killed more individuals than Nashville....

[Guardian]

How come being a “Trans” isn’t a red flag to gun ownership. Documented history of that being a mental illness and having a much much much higher instance of suicide and attempted suicide which screams red flag.

[bfargin]

Transurrection in TN today. Call the TBI and FBI to throw them all in federal gulag facilities. 

[Guardian]

Is it an insurrection? Are they trying to overthrow?

[O Face]

7 hours ago, brabus said:

@Pooter Ok, so the root cause is a specific type of inanimate object that is a motionless paperweight until a human with free will decides to be a POS and picks it up? Shitty diets, fast food, etc. kills WAY more people than firearms. Vehicle accidents kill double the people that guns do (I’m not counting suicides, many of those gun-related deaths are legal and justified, and many are criminal-on-criminal related, meaning no “innocent” people were killed). Where’s everyone calling for the ban of these inanimate objects that require human free will to use? 

The point of the above: it’s an illogical argument that inanimate objects are a RC of anything. Humans with free will are the RC of things based on the decisions they make (decide to kill someone, drive like a jackass, eat the 69th Big Mac even thought they have 3 different heart diseases).
 

- In 2020 we were still at a lower murder w/ gun rate than 1974, and 2020 was a bad year in general. Murder w/ gun rates was fairly stable from 2000-2015, and then made a sharp rise from there, despite increasing gun sales over that entire time period. In fact, gun sales have risen steadily while murders have sharply declined over decades until that significant rise in 2015. There’s literally a negative correlation between the two. Guns didn’t change, so what else did?

- # households with a gun has been DECLINING since the 60s, as increasing gun sales go to people with multiple (e.g. hunters and shooting hobbyists). Murderers using guns haven’t typically been the guy who has a large collection at home, it’s the deranged idiot who bought a gun last week/owns a couple or the gang banger/criminal who illegally acquired a gun and used it in nefarious activities (e.g. drug related).

- It was common place not that long ago to see school parking lots filled with guns. It was not that long ago when kids brought rifles into school and stuffed them in their locker for use later that day in a school-sanctioned shooting event or hunting after school. No school shootings happened during this time.

So, objectively and subjectively firearms do not have the correlation to un-justified murder that some people/gov members and the media want to claim. They are less involved in death than many other things in our country. They are a convenient boogeyman, but the facts do not support that “boogeyman status.”

So now we’re back to the start of this discussion - what has changed this century (roughly starting from Columbine) compared to the 20th century? Well, generally positive morals and values were far more important and cohesive family units were more prevalent in the past. People were far more likely to understand the value of human life, even if they didn’t like someone. People were more apt to care about a stranger than they are today. So yeah, society has changed for the worse and is ultimately driving worse behavior. Perhaps we’ve opened Pandora’s box and we can’t put it back in. But, I do believe concrete solutions involve mental health services and campaigns/grass roots to minimize things that lead to mental health issues (#1: be a good parent, #2: community involvement to teach caring about others/reduce selfishness). We need to look hard into tying mental health to firearm access; I’m undecided on the best way to do that, but clearly something needs to be done. I agree with your immediate solution of hardening schools. My kid’s school has many concealed carrying people in it -  every school should do this. Every school should have locked doors with controlled access. Combine those two things and you have a significant deterrent/significantly better chance of stopping a shooting/minimizing damage. 
 

Bottom line: I’m just as frustrated as others with how things are going in our country regarding murder, especially of children. I don’t want anyone’s kids to be in these situations. But, I want to actually solve the problem, and those who grasp at guns don’t give a about solving the problem, as they are incapable or unwilling to identify the root cause and work towards solving that. It’s a difficult problem and I’m not arguing there’s an easy solution, but it’s disingenuous to say you care when all you do is yell #noguns in the face of the facts, with no effort put towards real solutions. 

Well said Sir. Wish everyone in the USA could read and understand these words. 

To all the take your gun types: Here’s an idea too! How about we pass a law making it illegal to go murder a bunch of kids in a school??!!  Oh wait, that law is already in place?  Damnit, well I’m guessing the school shooter probably won’t obey gun laws either then if they’re gonna ignore homicide laws. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by O Face

[Biff_T]

46 minutes ago, O Face said:

Well said Sir. Wish everyone in the USA could read and understand these words. 

Too all the take your gun types: Here’s an idea too! How about we pass a law making it illegal to go murder a bunch of kids in a school??!!  Oh wait, that law is already in place?  Damnit, well I’m guessing the school shooter probably won’t obey gun laws either then if they’re gonna ignore homicide laws. 

Quit making sense dude!  

Here's an Idea.  The gun haters can turn all of their guns in and go back to their homelands. 

This country, as with most countries, was helped tremendously by guns.  We took it by killing and relocating the Natives.   

Show me how woke you are by giving your stolen land back to the Natives.  Until then, you are as guilty as the rest of us for all of the atrocities committed to form the boundaries that make up the U.S. 

Don't buy a gun if you don't like them.  

Don't sell guns to retards.  

Make mass shootings illegal lol.   

Kill the shooter on site.  If they surrender.  Make the trial fast, torture the piece of shit in public and let the victims' families finish him (it,he,she,me, you, pooh, ....pronouns and words) off.  

[tac airlifter]

19 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Teachers=democrats. Democrats+guns=bad.

My wife is a teacher & lethal shot.  She is 100% willing & capable of CC in school as a last resort to protect her students.  She should be allowed to do so.

I'll also note that despite objections from democrats the FFDO program has been wildly safe & successful.  More guns held by law abiding competent citizens= more safety for society.  The underlying tenet of democrat gun control is simply false.

[brabus]

County sheriff spoke at an event a while ago. Someone asked him why he thought our area crime was much lower than other areas with similar population. His response: “I think it’s because it’s widely known so many people have firearms here that criminals are far less likely to take risks.” And while crime does happen, a few incidents have involved dead criminals and the cops saying, “yeah that checks, have a nice day sir/ma’am.” 

[bfargin]

it’s a couple of days old now but well said by Gov Lee. He shows more grace than i want to show toward the shooter.
 

 

[FourFans]

@brabusI can't upvote that post enough.

I will add this simple note to answer your "I want to actually solve the problem" point

It's simple.

Incentivize men to stay in the home, providing with and for the mother with whom they create kids.

Protect the family unit, and America will survive.

[brabus]

Completely agree. The black community in America has suffered greatly from the reduction of fathers in the house. The breakdown of families has hurt them more than anything else since the 60s. 

[skybert]

9 hours ago, FourFans said:

@brabusI can't upvote that post enough.

I will add this simple note to answer your "I want to actually solve the problem" point

It's simple.

Incentivize men to stay in the home, providing with and for the mother with whom they create kids.

Protect the family unit, and America will survive.

Incentivize the courts not to break up  families without cause.

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, skybert said:

Incentivize the courts not to break up  families without cause.

Agree, but...

The courts aren't actually breaking up families, per se.  The courts are incentivizing the breakup of families, via application of shitty statute and case law. 

It's a low risk payoff for one of the parties that enters family court, statistically speaking.

But, even then, the table is set long before the divorce petition gets filed.  Social media has only poured gasoline on an already raging dumpster fire of demonizing men and devaluing family in popular culture.  Hooray single moms!  Pay no attention to the adult outcomes of children raised in single parent homes, much less those without fathers.

[Smokin]

12 hours ago, brabus said:

Completely agree. The black community in America has suffered greatly from the reduction of fathers in the house. The breakdown of families has hurt them more than anything else since the 60s. 

While epidemic in the black community, the rest of the United States (and the western world overall) isn't far behind.  This is absolutely the root cause of the majority of what is wrong with America.

[Day Man]

1 hour ago, Smokin said:

While epidemic in the black community, the rest of the United States (and the western world overall) isn't far behind.  This is absolutely the root cause of the majority of what is wrong with America.

any data to back that up?

[brabus]

3 minutes ago, Day Man said:

any data to back that up?

Plenty. Go look up the correlation between decreasing % of homes without fathers and increasing crime, poverty, etc. Look up “father status” of criminals and juveniles with misdemeanors.

[Day Man]

26 minutes ago, brabus said:

Plenty. Go look up the correlation between decreasing % of homes without fathers and increasing crime, poverty, etc. Look up “father status” of criminals and juveniles with misdemeanors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

[brabus]

Wow, what an astute argument. Are you trolling, or do you actually think a parental leadership vacuum makes no difference in a child’s direction in life? 

[FourFans]

18 hours ago, brabus said:

Completely agree. The black community in America has suffered greatly from the reduction of fathers in the house. The breakdown of families has hurt them more than anything else since the 60s. 

FIFY.

Edited April 1, 2023 by FourFans

[Day Man]

10 hours ago, brabus said:

Wow, what an astute argument. Are you trolling, or do you actually think a parental leadership vacuum makes no difference in a child’s direction in life? 

not trolling, and i agree that shitty parents (male or female) cause plenty of issues. but saying they are "absolutely the root cause of the majority of what is wrong with America" is a pretty definitive statement with a lot of other variables at play (eg, social media).

[Biff_T]

8 hours ago, FourFans said:

FIFY.

Some kids have two fathers. Lol