The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[lloyd christmas]

13 hours ago, Prozac said:

I could post dozens of similar montages that make the right seem unhinged as there’s plenty of the same garbage being passed around by lefties. 

Please post a similar montage of prominent Republican politicians, A list Hollywood actors and members of the main stream media calling for violence against Democrats.  Not the fringe whackos.  Powerful people with large audiences. 

I would honestly like to see it.  

[nsplayr]

As and you shall receive! 6.9 seconds on google:

 

[nsplayr]

8 hours ago, FourFans said:

Regardless, can we get back to this above quote?  Do you seriously disagree with the basic foundational civics of our republic, such as the electoral college?

I too support ending the electoral college and yet I can still say I support the constitution! I bet you hold a view like that too.

I also think SCOTUS decisions like Heller and Citizens United were wrong, even though because of those decisions, the constitution currently means things I don't think are correct.

I would venture you may have felt the same way about Roe or any number other SCOTUS decisions, and I know a few conservatives that would move to repeal various amendments (e.g. 17th amendment) if they could. Many conservative legal experts have big plans to overturn even more currently constitutionally protected rights via their control of the Supreme Court.

So it’s not like there is some fixed, sacred thing here beyond some bare basics. What the constitution says can and will continue to change both by passing or repealing amendments (very rare now), or mostly via the courts. Prozac saying he’s in favor of some changes in legal ways (such as the NPVIC) is perfectly normal and not some kind of sacrilege against the founders.

[FourFans]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I too support ending the electoral college

For what reason?  Would you support ending the electoral college if your party were in the minority?

Edited June 12, 2023 by FourFans

[Biff_T]

 

 

 

[nsplayr]

5 hours ago, FourFans said:

For what reason?  Would you support ending the electoral college if your party were in the minority?

Yes. I truly wish Kerry would have barely won Ohio in 2004, thus giving him the presidency while losing the popular vote. Both parties would have ditched the thing straight away. It’s a vestigial anachronism that modern America no longer needs. The person with the most votes should win, period, just like in literally every other election we hold.

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yes. I truly wish Kerry would have barely won Ohio in 2004, thus giving him the presidency while losing the popular vote. Both parties would have ditched the thing straight away. It’s a vestigial anachronism that modern America no longer needs. The person with the most votes should win, period, just like in literally every other election we hold.

someone explain it to him

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

 The person with the most votes should win, period, just like in literally every other election we hold.

The person with the most votes does win. The most electoral votes.  Everybody knows the rules, it’s not a surprise, and they should campaign in light of the system.
Otherwise Houston, Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York would decide every election.  And in that case, eventually states in the rest of the country would ask “Why are we in this union?”  And then the USA would fall apart.  The founding fathers thought of this, and developed the electoral college accordingly.

In another thread, you asked a profound question: “why can’t Republicans convince voters in major metropolitan areas to support them?”  I’ve been thinking on it, although I’m not ready to answer yet. But it’s a great question and it would be fun to discuss over bourbon sometime.  However in this context I will turn it around on you: why can’t Democrats convince voters in middle America or rural areas to support their policies?  That’s the only reason they want to divest the electoral college; it challenges their grasp on National offices.  You say it’s an anachronism, but I find it fundamental to national cohesiveness.

[nsplayr]

Y'all, I am perfectly aware of how the system currently works. In great detail.

Like, do you wanna talk about NE-3 and how in a weird scenario a Dem winning that single electoral vote in an otherwise red state could seal the election for them 270-268? I am a huge f*ing elections nerd if that is not abundantly clear. All candidates should and do campaign for the EC win today and I'm not advocating for them to do otherwise until the system changes. Lol except maybe Hillary who f-ing forgot to campaign in WI 🤦‍♂️

That being said, I would like the system to be different. The NPVIC is a viable and Constitutional way this might happen one day not too long from now.

BL: I would like the national popular vote winner to win the election, just like in every other election at every level. I understand the reasons why the founders set up the electoral college, the compromise between rural and at-the-time urban states, but I disagree that it's continuing to serve a valid purpose today. The country is vastly different in 2023 than when the Constitution was written. Like I said, it's a vestigial anachronism of the 1700s that's downsides outweigh any remaining benefit.

I also disagree that eliminating the EC would cause the nation to disintegrate, we're way stronger than that, and there is no state that would be better off on it's own than as part of the United States. Also today's divides are not longer regional but are urban/rural. People in Missoula have more in common politically with people in Madison or Austin or NYC than the rest of the state, and vice-versa for the rural parts of most states.

I also really do support eliminating the EC on principal, regardless of the fact that it's also painful that it hurts my preferred political party and has cost us the Presidency now twice. Like I posted before, if Kerry had become President over Bush due to a narrow EC win paired with a popular vote loss, A) I would have still thought that was unfair even though I much preferred Kerry in that race, and B) I firmly believe the GOP would have suddenly "seen the light" and joined the Dems to eliminate the EC forever.

14 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

In another thread, you asked a profound question: “why can’t Republicans convince voters in major metropolitan areas to support them?”  I’ve been thinking on it, although I’m not ready to answer yet. But it’s a great question and it would be fun to discuss over bourbon sometime.

Outstanding, I'd love to read your response if you ever want to post it.

15 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

However in this context I will turn it around on you: why can’t Democrats convince voters in middle America or rural areas to support their policies?

There is a whole cottage industry of think-pieces on why this is, what to do about it, etc. I've read a lot of them. The most persuasive ones either point to needing a nationally transcendent figure like Obama who just beats the pants off of his opponent, delivering states like Indiana and really cutting into typical GOP rural margins, or you need the type of Dem who is perhaps more in line with rural attitudes on trade, immigration, etc., someone like Sherrod Brown or Tim Ryan in Ohio, etc. I don't disagree that's what you'd need to improve rural margins.

What the last couple of elections have shown though, 2018-2022, is that as the electorate continues to change and morph and people move and etc., that Dems really don't have to make a ton of progress in truly rural areas. Not that you write them off, but that you can live even with 80-20 margins, similar to how Republicans do in cities.

The suburbs remain king and even when you lose a bit of margin in the urban cores (as Biden did comprated to Hillary 2020 to 2016), you can more than make up for it by campaigning hard in and winning the suburbs. So finding out what appeals to your wine moms, your 9-5 officer worker guys, etc. and not getting too suckered into what Billy Bob on the farm or Devonte in the inner city is most concerned with (oh no, stereotypes!), that's a viable path to win. This is the path Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock took in GA, Gretchen Whitmer took in MI, and the path Biden took in GA, AZ, MI & PA that delivered him the White House.

Happy to discuss in detail anytime brother, it truly is my wheelhouse of nerdery 🍺

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Y'all, I am perfectly aware of how the system currently works. In great detail.

Like, do you wanna talk about NE-3 and how in a weird scenario a Dem winning that single electoral vote in an otherwise red state could seal the election for them 270-268? I am a huge f*ing elections nerd if that is not abundantly clear. All candidates should and do campaign for the EC win today and I'm not advocating for them to do otherwise until the system changes. Lol except maybe Hillary who f-ing forgot to campaign in WI 🤦‍♂️

That being said, I would like the system to be different. The NPVIC is a viable and Constitutional way this might happen one day not too long from now.

BL: I would like the national popular vote winner to win the election, just like in every other election at every level. I understand the reasons why the founders set up the electoral college, the compromise between rural and at-the-time urban states, but I disagree that it's continuing to serve a valid purpose today. The country is vastly different in 2023 than when the Constitution was written. Like I said, it's a vestigial anachronism of the 1700s that's downsides outweigh any remaining benefit.

I also disagree that eliminating the EC would cause the nation to disintegrate, we're way stronger than that, and there is no state that would be better off on it's own than as part of the United States. Also today's divides are not longer regional but are urban/rural. People in Missoula have more in common politically with people in Madison or Austin or NYC than the rest of the state, and vice-versa for the rural parts of most states.

I also really do support eliminating the EC on principal, regardless of the fact that it's also painful that it hurts my preferred political party and has cost us the Presidency now twice. Like I posted before, if Kerry had become President over Bush due to a narrow EC win paired with a popular vote loss, A) I would have still thought that was unfair even though I much preferred Kerry in that race, and B) I firmly believe the GOP would have suddenly "seen the light" and joined the Dems to eliminate the EC forever.

Outstanding, I'd love to read your response if you ever want to post it.

There is a whole cottage industry of think-pieces on why this is, what to do about it, etc. I've read a lot of them. The most persuasive ones either point to needing a nationally transcendent figure like Obama who just beats the pants off of his opponent, delivering states like Indiana and really cutting into typical GOP rural margins, or you need the type of Dem who is perhaps more in line with rural attitudes on trade, immigration, etc., someone like Sherrod Brown or Tim Ryan in Ohio, etc. I don't disagree that's what you'd need to improve rural margins.

What the last couple of elections have shown though, 2018-2022, is that as the electorate continues to change and morph and people move and etc., that Dems really don't have to make a ton of progress in truly rural areas. Not that you write them off, but that you can live even with 80-20 margins, similar to how Republicans do in cities.

The suburbs remain king and even when you lose a bit of margin in the urban cores (as Biden did comprated to Hillary 2020 to 2016), you can more than make up for it by campaigning hard in and winning the suburbs. So finding out what appeals to your wine moms, your 9-5 officer worker guys, etc. and not getting too suckered into what Billy Bob on the farm or Devonte in the inner city is most concerned with (oh no, stereotypes!), that's a viable path to win. This is the path Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock took in GA, Gretchen Whitmer took in MI, and the path Biden took in GA, AZ, MI & PA that delivered him the White House.

Happy to discuss in detail anytime brother, it truly is my wheelhouse of nerdery 🍺

Absolutely not

[Prozac]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:38 PM, FourFans said:

Hopefully someday you'll realize you can't fix hate with more hate.

WTF dude? You’ve got a lib on the forum and you feel that you can place all of your angst about what you think liberals represent on me? You don’t know me. GTFO with your assumptions. Here’s a tip for you: don’t debate individuals as if they represent the entirety of positions you don’t like. Individual human beings are nuanced and complex, with wide ranging viewpoints on various topics. If you knew me at all, you’d know I don’t hate anyone. Hopefully someday you’ll realize you can’t fix the world with your head all the way up your ass (said with love). 

[ClearedHot]

[FourFans]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

WTF dude? You’ve got a lib on the forum and you feel that you can place all of your angst about what you think liberals represent on me? You don’t know me. GTFO with your assumptions. Here’s a tip for you: don’t debate individuals as if they represent the entirety of positions you don’t like. Individual human beings are nuanced and complex, with wide ranging viewpoints on various topics. If you knew me at all, you’d know I don’t hate anyone. Hopefully someday you’ll realize you can’t fix the world with your head all the way up your ass (said with love). 

Interesting response. Clearly you've been triggered. Thanks for not illuminating your position with any facts or responding to any of the questions that are asked to you. This response really does tell me a lot about you. 

You, likewise, don't know very much about me, and as far as I can see, you've not asked very many people here why they believe what they believe. Instead, you've actively displayed disgust, disbelief, and emotive response of distain for viewpoints that are not your own, including the above post. That's telling. 

Frankly, I'm not concerned if you call yourself a liberal, conservative, independent or other.  Do you think you deserve some special treatment because of your viewpoint?

One of the two of us actually tries to engage and present nuanced arguments. My comment about hate had nothing to do with liberals. It has to do with views you personally have expressed on this board, the contempt you've repeatedly expressed toward opinions you don't like, and the fact that you feel entitled to throw shade at opposing viewpoints just because you don't like them, not because you have a factually based argment against them that you're willing to share.  That's an expression of hate, hence my comment.

Edited June 13, 2023 by FourFans

[Prozac]

19 minutes ago, FourFans said:

That's an expression of hate, hence my comment.

And I’m the one who’s triggered?  A little over sensitive/borderline histrionics here man. Sorry you think I’m hateful because I don’t want to engage with your painfully meandering and obtuse arguments. I’ll try and keep your sensitivities in mind in the future. 

[Vito]

 I’m curious how many of our resident Liberals live in Liberal states and cities paying huge liberal taxes and exposing their families to liberals committing crime with impunity. At my airline, the few liberals amongst us, all preach social justice, equality, compassion etc as they sit ensconced in their safe, well run, low tax Republican States. I grew up in the Bronx, and it’s hard to be liberal when you see their policies and programs crash and burn around you on a daily basis for decades.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Vito

[Day Man]

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/vincent-delorenzo-priest-michigan-child-abuse-funeral/

must have been a drag queen on his days off🙄

 

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, Vito said:

 I’m curious how many of our resident Liberals live in Liberal states and cities paying huge liberal taxes and exposing their families to liberals committing crime with impunity. At my airline, the few liberals amongst us, all preach social justice, equality, compassion etc as they sit ensconced in their safe, well run, low tax Republican States. I grew up in the Bronx, and it’s hard to be liberal when you see their policies and programs crash and burn around you on a daily basis for decades.

Resident liberal here. Obviously I disagree with your premise. “Oh how can you live in evil red states where your daughters and wives can’t get healthcare, the government bans books, gay people are ostracized, the Bible is shoved down your throat, etc.” /sarcasm. It’s a bad faith question. I’m not asking that, just parroting back the inverse of what you asked just to be clear.

That being said, I’ll answer it!

I grew up in what is now a fairly blue state, went to school is a very liberal city, and have since moved because of the Air Force. If I could have landed a job or assignment in a big city, I would have loved that! My family will likely move back to the city where my wife and I went to college at some point after I retire.

What is your point in asking this question? Because obviously lots of liberals do in fact live in liberal-voting cities and states…that’s why they’re liberal-voting! The land itself is neutral and lacks consciousness.

Also not for nothing, many of the safest states are solidly blue. 9 of the top 10 by these measures!

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/safest-states-in-the-us.html

Re: taxes it all depends on your income and situation…different states balance income, sales and property taxes differently and YMMV, plus there are not clear ideological dividing lines there in all cases.

Edited June 14, 2023 by nsplayr

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, Vito said:

 I’m curious how many of our resident Liberals live in Liberal states and cities paying huge liberal taxes and exposing their families to liberals committing crime with impunity. At my airline, the few liberals amongst us, all preach social justice, equality, compassion etc as they sit ensconced in their safe, well run, low tax Republican States. I grew up in the Bronx, and it’s hard to be liberal when you see their policies and programs crash and burn around you on a daily basis for decades.

Seems pretty obvious that liberals live in these liberal cities, or they wouldn't be liberal cities.

I don't know how they see the disaster that is downtown LA and decide to vote for more of the same...but they do.

[FourFans]

14 hours ago, Prozac said:

And I’m the one who’s triggered?  A little over sensitive/borderline histrionics here man. Sorry you think I’m hateful because I don’t want to engage with your painfully meandering and obtuse arguments. I’ll try and keep your sensitivities in mind in the future. 

"I'm not triggered, YOU'RE triggered"  Cute. 

Sad to see that you have no intention of to answering hard questions or engaging in nuanced discussion.  I do genuinely want to hear the reasoned arguments behind why people believe liberal agendas, but I guess that won't be coming from you.

[Lord Ratner]

38 minutes ago, FourFans said:

"I'm not triggered, YOU'RE triggered"  Cute. 

Sad to see that you have no intention of to answering hard questions or engaging in nuanced discussion.  I do genuinely want to hear the reasoned arguments behind why people believe liberal agendas, but I guess that won't be coming from you.

Why? You know the answer. 

Because it feels good. Second and third order effects be damned.

[Biff_T]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

Seems pretty obvious that liberals live in these liberal cities, or they wouldn't be liberal cities.

I don't know how they see the disaster that is downtown LA and decide to vote for more of the same...but they do.

It’s the us vs them mentality that runs rampant throughout our entire society.  Something like this:

“There’s approximately 69,000 homeless people in LA county.” - Bob

”At least the other guys aren’t in charge.” - Bob’s friend

”Yeah, fuck those guys”- Bob

Homeless continue to live in the streets. American politics.  

[TreeA10]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

It’s the us vs them mentality that runs rampant throughout our entire society.  Something like this:

“There’s approximately 69,000 homeless people in LA county.” - Bob

”At least the other guys aren’t in charge.” - Bob’s friend

”Yeah, fuck those guys”- Bob

Homeless continue to live in the streets. American politics.  

Like I said before, leftists and liberals don't care if everything burns down to the ground as long as they get to rule over the ashes.

Everything is wonderful, nothing to see here, pay no attention to businesses shutting down.  https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/06/14/progressive-decay-another-ominous-sign-for-san-francisco-n2624441

[Biff_T]

Please for the love of God don't vote Newsom into the Presidential office.  Just look at CA.   Im from here and still live here.  This place has declined significantly in the last 10 years.  If you want this for the rest of country, he's your man.  He is also pushing to take away "assault" rifles.  Lol.   Fucking clown.  Oh yeah, he also backs reparations for slavery that our state can't afford. No person living in this country deserves reparations for something none of us alive today are gulity of commiting.   The fact that they even entertain this idea is ridiculous.    Yeah.  We're a civilization in decline and he is too proud and stupid to realize he's (and people like him) are the causal factor.   Id rather have an inmate for president than Gavin Newsom, at least the inmate cant hide the fact he's a criminal.  

[Vito]

 The reason why liberals live in liberal cities and states is because the “Takers” outnumber the “ Makers”. The MAKERS are taxed more, their businesses and success are ostrisized by the Left and their wealth is targeted by the Left, so they leave. The Takers, stay because they are the recipients of Democrat largess. Show me a City or State that’s better off under Democrat rule. I travel the country all the time. Cities like San Fran, NY, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, are all in decline, and rapidly in the last 5 years…all run by Democrats.
 

  NSplayer, I’m glad you hope to live back in the City…Hope you and your family will be safe..I know in NY today, none of my relatives or friends , all native New Yorkers,  even want to visit due to the parade of crimes we see each day on the NY News. Oh, and don’t forget, If you defend yourself on the subway after a psycho criminal threatens to kill you, You may get arrested for it, and they will erect a memorial to the psycho criminal..Fu$#@ng ClownWorld.  Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Vito
Punctuation

[Vito]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12187671/San-Franciscos-dying-downtown-hit-Westfield-stops-making-mortgage-payments-mall.html
 

Another Democrat success story..