The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Guardian]

Guessing slackline might be out plotting “peaceful protests” or else he would have responded by now.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

Guessing slackline might be out plotting “peaceful protests” or else he would have responded by now.

Easy, dude. He's not Goldfein.

[kaputt]

14 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Absolutely agree. Watched it a while ago and two things that stuck out to me were the fact that so many (almost all) of the homeless have either some sort of "debilitating" mental condition or are hopelessly addicted. One officer's quote stood out to me in particular: "Drug dealers selling crack, meth and heroin are evil people preying on the weakest part of society and belong in prison. We arrest them and nothing happens to them. They are back out on the street immediately. We need to acknowledge the disregard for human life inherent in selling life ending drugs and lock the dealers up for serious time."

There are elements in society that literally profit from people's death. I'm open (but skeptical) to the "legalization" argument. Weed has been legal in a lot of states now, and there is still a very strong illicit market for it, so I don't buy the argument that we can just tax it and it'll just all be ok.

Local governments are super complicit in this as well, as you alluded to. In California taxpayer money goes to a program that allows homeless drug users to exchange dirty needles for clean ones. 
 

Just exacerbating the problems perpetually.  

[Breckey]

Quote

A systematic review of 15 studies analyzing needle-syringe programs (NSP) found that NSP’s were associated with decreases in the prevalence of HIV and HCV and decreases in the incidence of HIV.[1] For example, a series of three-year longitudinal studies investigating the effect of New York’s legalization of syringe exchange programs between 1990 and 2002 found decreases in:

HIV prevalence from 50 percent to 17 percent (p<.001) [16]
Person-years at risk for HIV, from 3.55 to 0.77 per 100 person-years (p<.001)[16]
Another study that examined the effect of New York’s exchange program on the prevalence of HCV infection between 1990 and 2001 found that it was associated with a reduction in prevalence from 80 percent to 59 percent among HIV-negative intravenous drug users (p<0.034).[1, 17] An evaluation examining the District of Columbia’s lift of the Congressional ban on syringe exchange programs, which allowed the D.C. Department of Health to initiate an exchange program, showed a 70 percent decrease in new HIV cases among IDU and a total of 120 HIV cases averted in two years [18].

A cost-effectiveness analysis of a New York City needle syringe exchange estimated that the program would result in a baseline one year savings to the government of $1,300 to $3,000 per client. [19] Another cost-effectiveness analysis estimated that expanding access to clean syringes through an additional annual U.S. investment of $10 million would result in:

194 HIV infections averted in one year
A lifetime treatment cost savings of $75.8 million1A return on investment of $7.58 for every $1 spent (from the national perspective)[20]

https://www.cdc.gov/policy/hst/hi5/cleansyringes/index.html

The homelessness and drug abuse correlation is 100 percent true however CDC studies have shown that needle exchanges decrease overall government expenditure.

[Guardian]

Easy, dude. He's not Goldfein.

Thanks. I needed that.

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, Breckey said:

https://www.cdc.gov/policy/hst/hi5/cleansyringes/index.html

The homelessness and drug abuse correlation is 100 percent true however CDC studies have shown that needle exchanges decrease overall government expenditure.

Yes, though it's a bandaid on a compound fracture.

 

We need to embrace forced treatment for those unable to maintain a household. This is a weak area for conservatives who have no concept of what a hardcore drug addiction does to your mind. We want people to pick themselves up by the bootstraps, great, we gotta get their mind clean enough to do so. 

 

For liberals this means they have to stop pretending like letting people "live themselves to death" on the streets is some sort of virtue. Homeless people go to jail, not because they are criminal (though many are), but because you have to confine the addict to treatment long enough for it to take effect.

 

For conservatives, just locking people away won't work. It's going to take money to fix this; treatment is expensive. And providing the anti-addiction drugs for free (forever) will also sting. Tough.

[17D_guy]

43 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Yes, though it's a bandaid on a compound fracture.

We need to embrace forced treatment for those unable to maintain a household. This is a weak area for conservatives who have no concept of what a hardcore drug addiction does to your mind. We want people to pick themselves up by the bootstraps, great, we gotta get their mind clean enough to do so. 

For liberals this means they have to stop pretending like letting people "live themselves to death" on the streets is some sort of virtue. Homeless people go to jail, not because they are criminal (though many are), but because you have to confine the addict to treatment long enough for it to take effect.

For conservatives, just locking people away won't work. It's going to take money to fix this; treatment is expensive. And providing the anti-addiction drugs for free (forever) will also sting. Tough.

All truth.  Ben Shapiro had a good bit of LA history on it his last Rogan podcast appearance.  I've got family in Portland who're outraged at how the city is handling the situation.  "Just give them homes and out patient treatment, problem solved maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan."

I've had to protect my family from some of the crazies when we go to visit.  It's a fucking trip to be in a Burgerville with my young son, having to decide how close is "too close" with a stinky homeless fellow human being dancing in a circle blasted out of their cranuim.  Or having to tell people "No" they can't use our bathroom at church because we're scared they're going to use in there.

Liberal head's in the sand about "wanting freedom" fall on my deaf ears when they clean out these tents and there's shit and needles...everywhere.  These people have zero freedom while they're broken humans.

But it costs money, and it costs time and it costs compassion.  Something I've found in shorter supply from my conservative brothers/sisters, which is interesting with how much the Evangelical movement claims it.  Not throwing stones, don't want to get into the political side, just musing I've had for years on this subject.

I'm in UT now, and just last week they were a big push to get out one of the camps in SLC.  Reading the headlines about it...so many are mentally broken AND addicted to drugs.  There are a lot of shelters here, there's a lot the government does here.  But people don't want to go to a prison like place (they lock the doors at night) and "told what to do" (can't shoot up).  Can't say which came first the mental illness/drugs, but they need forceful help or life in a mental health care facility until they can rejoin us in society. 

I'm happy to pay taxes towards that end, and donate (and will continue to) to the services that provide those ends.  This is a needs a concerted effort by both government (local/state/federal) and communities (individuals/organizations/churches) to solve.

I say all this having had a homeless scare earlier in my life, and later becoming physically dependent on opiates during some prolonged extreme pain.  I was never addicted, but the thought of being dependent on a pill to get through the day was, and is, terrifying.

[gearhog]

Maj Gen Ed Thomas: Too many white guys are pilots. 
 

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/86-of-air-force-pilots-are-white-men-heres-why-this-needs-to-change-155046366.html?guccounter=1&__twitter_impression=true

[di1630]

Maj Gen Ed Thomas: Too many white guys are pilots. 
 
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/86-of-air-force-pilots-are-white-men-heres-why-this-needs-to-change-155046366.html?guccounter=1&__twitter_impression=true

I’m all for diversity in the ranks but I doubt we are suddenly going to find a ton of missed high-end recruits in the inner city.

I’ve said before, I could find better recruits by stopping the BS academic and chess club qualifiers that get kids into UPT.

I’ll take medium-intelligence type A recruits any day over the super-high-intelligence weenies I see filling the cockpits.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[busdriver]

It always cracks me up how everybody in the chain of command can find a way to justify the thing they already wanted to do based on the latest strategic guidance laid down by the CSAF.

[Guardian]

Maj Gen Ed Thomas: Too many white guys are pilots. 
 
https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/86-of-air-force-pilots-are-white-men-heres-why-this-needs-to-change-155046366.html?guccounter=1&__twitter_impression=true

Slackline?

[viper154]

19 hours ago, di1630 said:

I’m all for diversity in the ranks but I doubt we are suddenly going to find a ton of missed high-end recruits in the inner city.

I’ve said before, I could find better recruits by stopping the BS academic and chess club qualifiers that get kids into UPT.

I’ll take medium-intelligence type A recruits any day over the super-high-intelligence weenies I see filling the cockpits.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

There are a lot of levels to this, but it’s overall culture problem in the Air Force and in society in general. 
 

As the article said, military service isn’t as appealing as it once was, and a lot of American youth aren’t even eligible for service. A lot of the motivated type A, willing to learn inner city youth dedicate a lot of their time to sports, as culturally that is viewed as one of the only ways out. These kids are smart, motivated, athletic, we need to find a way to reach these populations. (Not just the athletes, but I think they provide a larger pool). 
 

You hit the nail on the head with the chess club bs. We need to change our recruiting and our officer training programs. Trying to convince any youth to spend 4 years at the academy or in ROTC marching in circles wearing blues and folding shirts into perfect squares to (maybe) get a opportunity to fly is a tough sell(and that’s assuming we give them scholarships). Ya, there is OTS, but in the context of low income youth they probably aren’t going to have a 4 year degree. I don’t have all answers, but trying to only get 4.0 GPA “smart” cadets isn’t the best strategy to me.

I get we aren’t the Army, but their ROTC program seemed to be a lot better structured than ours. While they were out in the field doing land nav, building shelters, learning weapons/tactics, we were in Blues marching in the gym and doing retarded GLPs bouncing balloons around and formatting Memos. I don’t give a shit how your memo is formatted, I’m probably not going to read it anyway. 99% of our force isn’t going to be on the ground running and gunning, but I think there is a lot more to take away from that training than marching and memos. 

When I’m flying around bum fuck no where, and everyone on the ground wants to kill me, I want a diverse crew/team (not talking skin color, I don’t give shit how much pigment is in your skin or what set of genitals you have). Having the 4.0GPA person brings something to the table, but so does the country boy who can live off the land and fix anything, the inner city kid that fought tooth and nail and has “street smarts”, the athlete, the immigrant, etc. Filling the rated ranks with people that checked the “chess club” box is a major contributing factor to the cultural/bureaucratic nightmare of a organization we have become.  

[Danger41]

On 10/30/2020 at 3:52 PM, di1630 said:

I’m all for diversity in the ranks but I doubt we are suddenly going to find a ton of missed high-end recruits in the inner city.

I’ve said before, I could find better recruits by stopping the BS academic and chess club qualifiers that get kids into UPT.

I’ll take medium-intelligence type A recruits any day over the super-high-intelligence weenies I see filling the cockpits.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

“Give me a committed B student with a boiling will to win over an A-plus scholar with a careerist agenda, and we’ll be on our way.”

Dan Pedersen in his book “Topgun” about his founding of the Navy Fighter Weapons School.

[dream big]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:25 PM, torqued said:

Maj Gen Ed Thomas: Too many white guys are pilots. 
 

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/86-of-air-force-pilots-are-white-men-heres-why-this-needs-to-change-155046366.html?guccounter=1&__twitter_impression=true

And? (From a non-white pilot) 

[gearhog]

6 hours ago, dream big said:

And? (From a non-white pilot) 

You didn't specify your gender. Why?

 

[Guardian]

He/him. Why does it matter that there are too many whites? Does he have a point that correlates to mission effectiveness? Or does he think we should be equal in all measurable differences? And how does he plan to implement and track this ridiculous statement?

Or is he just unknowingly a giant racist?

Equality of outcome is systematically racist and sexist and needs to stop.

[Prozac]

 

29 minutes ago, Guardian said:

He/him. Why does it matter that there are too many whites? Does he have a point that correlates to mission effectiveness? Or does he think we should be equal in all measurable differences? And how does he plan to implement and track this ridiculous statement?

Or is he just unknowingly a giant racist?

Equality of outcome is systematically racist and sexist and needs to stop.

It matters because when you have an institution that does not reflect the society it represents, you have problems. You could argue that the military is different. You’d be right to say, for example, that the majority of the population is obese and that doesn’t work for the military. Those kinds of arguments hold no water when it comes to race though. Like it or not, the US military has made racial equality a priority since the Eisenhower administration. One of the reasons the American public has a high amount of trust in their military is because it, at least in theory, represents a cross section of themselves. The faith of the American population is a key factor in long term combat effectiveness. If you look at the big/long term picture, we are playing chess not checkers. 

[Prozac]

One point to add to my prior post:

I’m not saying we can’t have a discussion on the best way to accomplish racial equality. I happen to believe that affirmative action programs are a key part of a broader overall strategy that includes investment in education and community outreach. There are certainly many valid strategies or combinations of strategies out there, but just accepting that our pilot force is racially misrepresented is the wrong answer. 

[Blue]

Quote

 

To be clear, the Air and Space Forces are not setting quotas based on race or gender. We will, however, focus intensely and concentrate our efforts in traditionally underserved communities. It wouldn’t be legal or productive to hold recruiters accountable for bringing in a certain number of recruits from various demographic groups. But if we see that we’re not hitting recruiting targets that mirror the qualified population in those categories, we will adjust to concentrate on areas where we can get a more representative balance in our applicant pool. To use a fishing analogy, recruiters must not only cast a wide net but ensure we are spending time in the right fishing holes.

And by measuring those targets, we’ll employ the old management axiom that what gets measured gets done. And we’ll get it done.

 

I love this article.  "To be clear, we're not going to have quotas.  Instead, we're going to...........................have quotas."

[DosXX]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I love this article.  "To be clear, we're not going to have quotas.  Instead, we're going to...........................have quotas."

To be fair, there's a big difference between saying that 30% of pilot slots are reserved for minorities and implementing recruitment policies that try to close the gap.

[TreeA10]

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again.  The phrase, "Special consideration should be given to women and minorities and minorities for possible past discrimination" was given to promotion boards in the mid 90s.  In 1994, the promotion rate target to Major was 73% of all eligible officers.  The promotion rate for minority women was 94%. This did no favors to the reputation of those promoted or the Air Force itself with the AF losing lawsuits as a result.

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

One point to add to my prior post:

I’m not saying we can’t have a discussion on the best way to accomplish racial equality. I happen to believe that affirmative action programs are a key part of a broader overall strategy that includes investment in education and community outreach. There are certainly many valid strategies or combinations of strategies out there, but just accepting that our pilot force is racially misrepresented is the wrong answer. 

Say you have a room of 100 pilot candidates that exactly represents the demographics of the USA. They all have different resumes and the resumes don't specify race or gender.

What would your selection process be if you needed to choose 20 of them to fly aircraft in combat?

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by torqued

[Guardian]

Prozac. Are you being serious? The colors and genitalia in the military must as closely match the civilian world? Obviously not a direct quote but that is what you said boiled down. Dude....why? That’s a very racist thing man. Seriously. You are discriminating against some by the color of their skin or their sex organ. That’s what we are trying to eliminate.

I hope you’re just kidding around.

[FLEA]

13 hours ago, Guardian said:

Prozac. Are you being serious? The colors and genitalia in the military must as closely match the civilian world? Obviously not a direct quote but that is what you said boiled down. Dude....why? That’s a very racist thing man. Seriously. You are discriminating against some by the color of their skin or their sex organ. That’s what we are trying to eliminate.

I hope you’re just kidding around.

I like to ask in these conversations if it's also important that the racial makeup of players in the NBA should also be representative of society, why or why not?  

[Guardian]

Great point. We need more representation from minorities and majorities in the NBA. They don’t represent the community they play in.