The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[Alpharatz]

Wow..I hesitate to respond to this high quality crowd..but here goes.  To start, a fair number of officers are straight out of the military and tend to fit right in to the police system which at least profiles as a military operation in a lot of cases.  (I love the four star general police chiefs).  So...whatever "quality" problems exist likely existed in the military.  Except , of course a crew chief likely hasn't dragged a deceased kid out of a swimming pool recently or waded into a street fight alone on some freezing dark night.  I DID hear of a crew chief who manhandled a lead footed pilot who shredded a couple of tyres...unable to assess quality on that one.  Dealing with who knows what problems that John Q dredges up  on a daily  basis is a challenge of course,  but can also drain the personality pretty badly.  Being a patrol officer can turn a guy into a hard case over time.  And now with this increase in gun play nation wide one could get pretty hyper vigilant and quick on the draw or quick with a beat down or who knows?  I do find it curious that peeps who rarely if ever see the blood and guts misery and sadness that officers do and are paid to deal with yap about "quality".  

[uhhello]

Sam Harris had a great podcast with Rener Gracie who brought up some great ways forward in regards to police training

[Prozac]

11 hours ago, Alpharatz said:

Wow..I hesitate to respond to this high quality crowd..but here goes.  To start, a fair number of officers are straight out of the military and tend to fit right in to the police system which at least profiles as a military operation in a lot of cases.  (I love the four star general police chiefs).  So...whatever "quality" problems exist likely existed in the military.  Except , of course a crew chief likely hasn't dragged a deceased kid out of a swimming pool recently or waded into a street fight alone on some freezing dark night.  I DID hear of a crew chief who manhandled a lead footed pilot who shredded a couple of tyres...unable to assess quality on that one.  Dealing with who knows what problems that John Q dredges up  on a daily  basis is a challenge of course,  but can also drain the personality pretty badly.  Being a patrol officer can turn a guy into a hard case over time.  And now with this increase in gun play nation wide one could get pretty hyper vigilant and quick on the draw or quick with a beat down or who knows?  I do find it curious that peeps who rarely if ever see the blood and guts misery and sadness that officers do and are paid to deal with yap about "quality".  

Another thing policing and the military have in common is service. When you get paid with tax dollars, the public has every right to “yap about quality”. Seems to be a common theme that the bad apples forget that they work for the people they are policing, not the other way around. 

[HeloDude]

6 hours ago, Prozac said:

Another thing policing and the military have in common is service. When you get paid with tax dollars, the public has every right to “yap about quality”. Seems to be a common theme that the bad apples forget that they work for the people they are policing, not the other way around. 

Sounds like quite a few of the politicians in the country...yet they remain in place.  

[Lord Ratner]

I spent hours looking at what was presented in the Chauvin trial. If not a single juror could find reasonable doubt to any of the charges brought against Chauvin, we have a real problem with media influence. I was in the "lock him up" group until recently. Now I can't help but wonder if the media is intentionally focusing on cases that are "questionable" in order to further divide the population. Michael Brown, George Zimmerman, and now Floyd. Either outright fabrications or very difficult to parse, but never clearly racist murders. Those cases seem to just fade into the noise.

 

This man had 3 times the fatal dose of fentanyl in his system. Plus meth. He was foaming from the mouth, a clear symptom of Fentanyl overdose. "I ate too many drugs." Saliva covered pills in the back of the police cruiser. The prosecution witnesses were almost comically irrelevant in the first couple days, yet they were permitted to take the stand. The MMA "effort" witness was a joke. The prosecution's own witnesses confirmed the validity of the restraint method used by Chauvin. The paramedics had to drive three blocks away before administering first aid because of the angry crowd. The video showing Floyd fight his way out of the cop car, already screaming that he couldn't breath (also a symptom of Fentanyl and meth overdose). 

 

Innocent? Who knows. But not a single reasonable doubt?

 

Between holding the trial in Minneapolis, a sitting congresswoman calling for increased confrontation, the mayor saying the police are at fault regardless of the verdict, and the judge failing to sequester the jury until the end, I hope his appeal judges have more courage than the jury did.

 

I don't suspect this is going to do any favors to the rapidly rising murder rate in America. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[lloyd christmas]

5 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Between holding the trial in Minneapolis, a sitting congresswoman calling for increased confrontation, the mayor saying the police are at fault regardless of the verdict, and the judge failing to sequester the jury until the end, I hope his appeal judges have more courage than the jury did.

Don’t forget that the city paid the Floyd family 27 million dollars during jury selection.  2 jurors were removed at that point if I remember correctly.  

What I don’t understand is the racial component.  All of the civil unrest is fueled by the narrative that, once again, we have a white cop killing a unarmed black man because he was black.  That’s all our President and Vice President spoke of during their remarks.  Most of the high profile race baiters were standing with Floyd’s family during their presser. It’s talked about so much that people don’t even question it.  In reality, there is zero evidence at all that this was racially motivated.  There were no hate crimes alleged or charged.  The prosecution said it was Chauvin’s ego that killed Floyd.  Even with zero evidence of a racially motivated crime it’s the center of the focus of everything you hear.  

I thought Biden and Harris’s comments were some of the most irresponsible comments ever made by someone at their level.  I really do.  It adds fuel to country that is already incredibly divided.  It completely erased any efforts - which they haven’t made - to bring the country together and to heal.  It adds a ton of weight to the anti cop narrative being pushed.  Not to mention, it gives credibility to those race hustlers who push these false narratives. 

Chauvin’s actions were inexcusable.  Focusing on a made up racial component of the situation takes the thought and energy away from the legitimate police reform we should be focusing on, like more funding and more training.  

[NKAWTG]

With the threat of my town burning down, and the implied doxing of my family by the prosecutor's office, it would be hard not to convict.  This is still in the first inning though.

Do the other 3 officers take a plea deal, knowing they can't get a fair trial?

Does the prosecutor even offer a plea deal knowing he has a guaranteed conviction?

Is the nation in a saner place that the appeals court can rule fairly?

Does the appeals court even bother since the jury came to the "politically correct" conclusion?

Do Antifa, BLM and Mad Maxine repeat their terroristic threats at the next trial, or in Atlanta at Garret Rolf's trial?

[TreeA10]

How the jury found no reasonable doubt is really stunning. 
 

The continuing fallout from this is not going to be pretty  Police are already declining to interact with certain communities and violent crime and homicide numbers are up. Murders are up 30% in blue cities. What rational person would decide to risk prison for responding to a drug addicted, multiple felon?  Law enforcement officers are going to elect to do nothing as the preferred course of action and those communities are going to suffer more than they are now. 

[SocialD]

16 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

How the jury found no reasonable doubt is really stunning. 
 

The continuing fallout from this is not going to be pretty  Police are already declining to interact with certain communities and violent crime and homicide numbers are up. Murders are up 30% in blue cities. What rational person would decide to risk prison for responding to a drug addicted, multiple felon?  Law enforcement officers are going to elect to do nothing as the preferred course of action and those communities are going to suffer more than they are now. 

 

Did anyone really believe he would get a fair trial or impartial jury?  Dude was good as guilty before the opening statements started.  He'd have been better off fleeing the country.  

 

To your second comment, I've already witnessed this happen locally.  Quite a few of our part timers are LEOs and many of them are seeking full time employment on base right now.  One of them in OPS just took a stripe off to get a position.  They all say the same thing, it's getting worse wrt the aggressive interactions and you're just one edited video away from being fired or put in prison.  Even before all of this, the stories these guys would tell you were ridiculously eye-opening.  They deal with a segment of society that many don't belive exists.  

[uhhello]

5 hours ago, SocialD said:

 

Did anyone really believe he would get a fair trial or impartial jury?  Dude was good as guilty before the opening statements started.  He'd have been better off fleeing the country.  

 

To your second comment, I've already witnessed this happen locally.  Quite a few of our part timers are LEOs and many of them are seeking full time employment on base right now.  One of them in OPS just took a stripe off to get a position.  They all say the same thing, it's getting worse wrt the aggressive interactions and you're just one edited video away from being fired or put in prison.  Even before all of this, the stories these guys would tell you were ridiculously eye-opening.  They deal with a segment of society that many don't belive exists.  

NYC even went as far to remove any form of contact/interaction with the chest when attempting to subdue.  Sam Harris podcast goes into detail how they removed the last few barriers between subduing someone and using taser/lethal force.  NYC is fucked.  

[TreeA10]

Listening to a podcast on my way home from the airport and it's been estimated than "the Ferguson effect", I.e. the pullback by law enforcement as a result of the Michael Brown shooting, led to 1000 to 6000 more deaths since it  happened.  The carnage is going to be worse going forward. 

[pbar]

9 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

Listening to a podcast on my way home from the airport and it's been estimated than "the Ferguson effect", I.e. the pullback by law enforcement as a result of the Michael Brown shooting, led to 1000 to 6000 more deaths since it  happened.  The carnage is going to be worse going forward. 

Can't get people to give up their liberties and freedom if they feel safe....

[VMFA187]

Virginia Dept. of Ed moves to end accelerated math classes for 'equity': 'Not an exaggeration' - Washington Times

Virginia looking to completely remove all accelerated math classes until 11th grade.

Curious how this is going to effect women and minorities in STEM...

This is starting to become the second version of Orwell's 1984. 

[jazzdude]

Virginia Dept. of Ed moves to end accelerated math classes for 'equity': 'Not an exaggeration' - Washington Times
Virginia looking to completely remove all accelerated math classes until 11th grade.
Curious how this is going to effect women and minorities in STEM...
This is starting to become the second version of Orwell's 1984. 

That's pretty dumb. Math seems to be one of the few subjects where there's some level of tailoring to the student (via accelerated paths). It helps meet the need of the student by providing an appropriate level of challenge.

A better fix would be better teaching in lower grades and building confidence in math earlier, which would pay dividends in high school and beyond.

[Pooter]

Got a story for you guys. This is going to be long and a little out of left field but I figure where better than to share it in this thread so I'll just go ahead. I have accidentally conducted a decade-long free speech experiment in the comment section of one of the most liberal leaning "news" sites in the world, and here are my findings. Let me explain. 
 

So there I was in college back in the 2010 timeframe and I got turned on to this fringe leftist news website called motherjones. Some of you might know it. They used to run an actual print magazine too.  If you haven't heard of them just go check the site right now, they're running articles about how opposing dc statehood is racist, how much people like that Biden is "boring" and other standard leftist tropes.  Compared to the bias in the MSM it's nothing particularly new or interesting, they've just been doing it shamelessly and for a lot longer. 
 

When I got turned on to this site in college I would read the ludicrous articles for fun and I immediately gravitated toward the comment section.  It was a hive of activity with 40-50 comments on an average article and sometimes hundreds on the popular ones.  I made an account and immediately started debating people. I never intended to troll, I simply enjoyed being in the minority there and trying to pick apart other peoples ideas. I became kind of addicted to playing political devils advocate in an ideologically homogenous place. Other quasi conservatives came and went, mostly trolls, but I was a semi active commenter for 7+ years. I had some legitimately good debates with people and I like to think I changed a few minds and had my mind changed about a few things too. 
 

The first time I noticed a change in the comments section was a few years back when they got rid of disqus (comment hosting software) and moved to a comment moderation/hosting service call coral. Coral is run by ... drumroll...  Vox. So I think you can already guess where this story is going.    The pitch was that the new moderation software was going to crack down on hate speech and inappropriate content. At first there was very little change, but then other users started complaining that the moderation was flagging them for profanity. I was always very careful not to swear in comments and didn't have an issue at first. But then I started having comments sent to moderation for no apparent reason. Moderation simply for cordially disagreeing or posting a mainstream opposing viewpoint. 

 

Some of my comments made it through the filters (with extremely careful wording) but then it got weirder as I noticed the bile filled responses to my comments weren't being blocked at all. Name calling, ad hominem attacks, death threats, and every label from nazi to the literal devil were thrown my way, laced with profanity the entire time. All the while More of my comments started getting blocked. Meanwhile comments from bots for porn sites and money scams started passing through the filter too. It became increasingly obvious that the sole purpose of the moderation was to shut down any opposing viewpoint no matter how it was presented. 
 

I tried making a new username but after 3 or 4 posts the moderation figures out you aren't a flaming liberal and just blocks anything new you submit. I noticed on my main account they even went back in my comment history and retroactively deleted some old comments of mine. It's simply not worth even trying to engage anymore because the moderation wall won't let anything through. 
 

So what is the motherjones comment section like today? Well it's 6-9 commenters that log on every day to violently agree with each other and say that conservatives are evil and the source of all problems.  There are no dissenting opinions and the tone from the regular commenters is increasingly self-congratulatory.  It's one of the most severe political echo chambers I've ever seen and a perfect microcosm of what our political discourse has become.  Now I'm not going to complain that my speech is being infringed because of course motherjones is a private company that can do what it wants, but there are lessons to be learned here.

1. echo chambers are insidious.  It's easy to look into another echo chamber and see the stupidity for what it is, but we need to be incredibly cautious with our own information diet to not end up in one ourselves.

2. Diversity of opinion is good for business.  These days motherjones is always running some kind of pathetic donation campaign to stay afloat. I saw first hand what their idiotic moderation did to their comment section engagement and I'm sure those anti-speech tendencies are torpedoing the rest of their business.

3. Go to motherjones if you want to read some truly entertaining leftist nonsense.  But I'll warn you, it will make you mad and you will want to comment. Don't waste your time.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Pooter

[Lord Ratner]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

Got a story for you guys. This is going to be long and a little out of left field but I figure where better than to share it in this thread so I'll just go ahead. I have accidentally conducted a decade-long free speech experiment in the comment section of one of the most liberal leaning "news" sites in the world, and here are my findings. Let me explain. 
 

So there I was in college back in the 2010 timeframe and I got turned on to this fringe leftist news website called motherjones. Some of you might know it. They used to run an actual print magazine too.  If you haven't heard of them just go check the site right now, they're running articles about how opposing dc statehood is racist, how much people like that Biden is "boring" and other standard leftist tropes.  Compared to the bias in the MSM it's nothing particularly new or interesting, they've just been doing it shamelessly and for a lot longer. 
 

When I got turned on to this site in college I would read the ludicrous articles for fun and I immediately gravitated toward the comment section.  It was a hive of activity with 40-50 comments on an average article and sometimes hundreds on the popular ones.  I made an account and immediately started debating people. I never intended to troll, I simply enjoyed being in the minority there and trying to pick apart other peoples ideas. I became kind of addicted to playing political devils advocate in an ideologically homogenous place. Other quasi conservatives came and went, mostly trolls, but I was a semi active commenter for 7+ years. I had some legitimately good debates with people and I like to think I changed a few minds and had my mind changed about a few things too. 
 

The first time I noticed a change in the comments section was a few years back when they got rid of disqus (comment hosting software) and moved to a comment moderation/hosting service call coral. Coral is run by ... drumroll...  Vox. So I think you can already guess where this story is going.    The pitch was that the new moderation software was going to crack down on hate speech and inappropriate content. At first there was very little change, but then other users started complaining that the moderation was flagging them for profanity. I was always very careful not to swear in comments and didn't have an issue at first. But then I started having comments sent to moderation for no apparent reason. Moderation simply for cordially disagreeing or posting a mainstream opposing viewpoint. 

 

Some of my comments made it through the filters (with extremely careful wording) but then it got weirder as I noticed the bile filled responses to my comments weren't being blocked at all. Name calling, ad hominem attacks, death threats, and every label from nazi to the literal devil were thrown my way, laced with profanity the entire time. All the while More of my comments started getting blocked. Meanwhile comments from bots for porn sites and money scams started passing through the filter too. It became increasingly obvious that the sole purpose of the moderation was to shut down any opposing viewpoint no matter how it was presented. 
 

I tried making a new username but after 3 or 4 posts the moderation figures out you aren't a flaming liberal and just blocks anything new you submit. I noticed on my main account they even went back in my comment history and retroactively deleted some old comments of mine. It's simply not worth even trying to engage anymore because the moderation wall won't let anything through. 
 

So what is the motherjones comment section like today? Well it's 6-9 commenters that log on every day to violently agree with each other and say that conservatives are evil and the source of all problems.  There are no dissenting opinions and the tone from the regular commenters is increasingly self-congratulatory.  It's one of the most severe political echo chambers I've ever seen and a perfect microcosm of what our political discourse has become.  Now I'm not going to complain that my speech is being infringed because of course motherjones is a private company that can do what it wants, but there are lessons to be learned here.

1. echo chambers are insidious.  It's easy to look into another echo chamber and see the stupidity for what it is, but we need to be incredibly cautious with our own information diet to not end up in one ourselves.

2. Diversity of opinion is good for business.  These days motherjones is always running some kind of pathetic donation campaign to stay afloat. I saw first hand what their idiotic moderation did to their comment section engagement and I'm sure those anti-speech tendencies are torpedoing the rest of their business.

3. Go to motherjones if you want to read some truly entertaining leftist nonsense.  But I'll warn you, it will make you mad and you will want to comment. Don't waste your time.

There is no intellectual basis for the policies of the progressive left anymore. Even the marxist part of the party is at odds with the critical race theory nonsense.

 

"Reason" implies that there are such things as right answers. Debate is a form of multi-party reasoning, so if you're entire ideology is based on falsehoods, debate is a threat. The only logical thing the left does these days is stifle debate.

 

Reminds me of the conservatives when they were nonstop railing against gay marriage. A bunch of small-government warriors demanding the federal government protect their religious ceremony from copy cats. Funny seeing the parties completely switch which one gets to be insane over 20 years.

[Homestar]

8 hours ago, Pooter said:

Well it's 6-9 commenters that log on every day to violently agree with each other

So, kind of like bops.net?

[HeloDude]

16 minutes ago, Homestar said:

So, kind of like bops.net?

Doesn’t sound like you and others have  been in agreement with much of what’s been posted over the last several years (and vice versa)...so no, not like bops.net. 

[Lord Ratner]

6 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Doesn’t sound like you and others have  been in agreement with much of what’s been posted over the last several years (and vice versa)...so no, not like bops.net. 

Oppression olympics. Both sides seems equally susceptible.

 

Even the term mainstream media is rapidly losing its relevance. I suppose we could use the term "legacy media," which would represent the longest running news sources, which have always been and are still overwhelmingly liberal. The difference is that sometime in the 90s those sources decided it was no longer their responsibility to hide their bias. Fast forward 30 years, and the result is that a number of equally ideological conservative news sites have formed, many of which are dominating the legacy Media at their own game.

 

My point is that we have a tendency as humans to operate on feelings we had a long time ago, even when a dispassionate review of the present landscape would suggest the source of those emotions has been remedied. Just look at how many race warriors are complaining about imbalances that haven't existed in America for decades. They use present-day anecdotes as example of a systemic problem. If you remove the content of their argument, it sounds similar to conservatives complaining that the media landscape hasn't changed. In both cases they are wrong.

[Pooter]

32 minutes ago, Homestar said:

So, kind of like bops.net?

It's not nearly as bad here. Some threads get a little echo chamber-ey but there's nothing stopping more liberal users from chiming in if they want to. And they usually do. In contrast, my comments which aren't even that conservative would be blocked for even a slight deviation from the orthodoxy. Or the grave crimes of asking a probing question or playing devils advocate. 
 

Trust me it's much better here, but that isn't to say we can't be careful and always think critically to ensure we don't go in that direction too. 

[pawnman]

Now that Jenner is opposing Newsome for the governor of California...she's out of the LGBT club.

 

[brickhistory]

One of the Chuavin jurors looks like he lied to the judge about his knowledge of and bias towards the trial.  On the record and under oath that "he only had a vague knowledge of the case." (paraphrased)

Photos/social media of him a few months BEFORE being selected showing him wearing a "Get off our necks" shirt and his comments on a local radio show this week where he says "We need to take action by being part of the system."

Just can't help bragging on taking down the "man," even if that bragging adds bigly to an appeal's overturning of the some or all of the charges.

[FlyingWolf]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/05/15/space-force-co-who-got-holiday-call-trump-fired-over-comments-decrying-marxism-military.html

 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Kiloalpha said:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/05/15/space-force-co-who-got-holiday-call-trump-fired-over-comments-decrying-marxism-military.html

This dude already has a book out and political contacts. He's made regardless of what is done with him. 

[SocialD]

7 minutes ago, FLEA said:

This dude already has a book out and political contacts. He's made regardless of what is done with him. 

 

One might even say, he knew this may be the outcome. Get your name in the limelight, book is promoted and get out of the military...that's like 3 birds with one stone!  We have a pilot at DAL that appears to be doing pretty much the same thing.