The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)

[FLEA]

35 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Either way, this falls squarely into the play stupid games, win stupid prizes column for me.  Don't vandalize/break into a federal building (or any building for that matter) and your chances of getting shot tend to diminish rapidly.  

Nope. Not good enough. We are not going to outrage over a dozen shootings of unarmed individuals resisting arrest and then decide to not outrage over a person who happens to be of the opposite political end also being killed in another likely unjustified shooting. That's not justice. Everyone needs to be treated equally under the law. Not just people from our preferred political demographic.

 

[SocialD]

Just now, FLEA said:

Nope. Not good enough. We are not going to outrage over a dozen shootings of unarmed individuals resisting arrest and then decide to not outrage over a person who happens to be of the opposite political end also being killed in another likely unjustified shooting. That's not justice. Everyone needs to be treated equally under the law. Not just people from our preferred political demographic.

 

 

Ah yes, I misread your post, I'm in agreement with you there.  I file many (not all) of those resisting arrests incidents into the same column as this chick.

[FourFans]

Here's a thought experiment to help evaluate the justice involved here:  Swap the skin colors or genders of the two individuals involved.  Do you think the outcome would be different?  If so, the results of this case are unjust.

[arg]

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2022/02/air-force-went-woke-its-planes-wont-fly-daniel-greenfield/

[dream big]

14 minutes ago, arg said:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2022/02/air-force-went-woke-its-planes-wont-fly-daniel-greenfield/

It’s going to get worse, on the woke and readiness side.. until we fix acquisitions, our planes will continue to suffer.  Diversity quotas won’t help the acquisition process.  Meanwhile in Ukrainian and the Pacific..

[HU&W]

10 hours ago, arg said:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2022/02/air-force-went-woke-its-planes-wont-fly-daniel-greenfield/

His opening sentence incorrectly identifies the CMSAF, which casts doubt on the credibility of his other sources, evidence, and conclusions.  

[dream big]

53 minutes ago, HU&W said:

His opening sentence incorrectly identifies the CMSAF, which casts doubt on the credibility of his other sources, evidence, and conclusions.  

“..have made diversify and wokeness”; I think he’s simply stating that CMSGT Wright started the USAF’s recent woke catalyst with his unprofessional tirade after the Floyd incident.  He later addresses the current Chief Master Sergeant Bass.

[Sim]

[BashiChuni]

JUICY!

[bfargin]

 

[HeloDude]

This is why the Florida bill is necessary…and I don’t see how this stuff is a winning message for the left this fall.  Until we get rid of public (ie government schools that indoctrinate kids) funded by forcing people to give up their wealth to fund such schools, then banning this kind of indoctrination of very young children is the next best thing.  

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-jersey-second-graders-learn-gender-identity-alarming-parents

[brabus]

Why are parents surprised? This shit is  everywhere. If any of you read this and say, “glad that’s not in my kid’s (public) school,” you’re 100% wrong. Time for everyone to get off their asses and fight this bullshit. 

[bfargin]

https://babylonbee.com/news/are-you-a-groomer-9-things-to-look-for?fbclid=IwAR2XQyyjXmlMiXRiiLRYGkOsS4uGz2RM_tzgzUD16yvn4tKm5SSxwxQYcz4

[BFM this]

11 hours ago, brabus said:

Why are parents surprised? This shit is  everywhere. If any of you read this and say, “glad that’s not in my kid’s (public) school,” you’re 100% wrong. Time for everyone to get off their asses and fight this bullshit. 

My kids school has a sign in the parking lot that reads something to the effect of "Staff is armed and will use lethal force to defend students."

I'm not saying that stuff isn't at my kids' school.  But maybe not.

[brickhistory]

Woke stupidity should hurt (or at least be expensive):

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/04/09/the-cost-of-woke-appeals-court-rules-oberlin-must-pay-gibsons-bakery-32-million-n461248

 

 

[brabus]

4 hours ago, BFM this said:

My kids school has a sign in the parking lot that reads something to the effect of "Staff is armed and will use lethal force to defend students."

I'm not saying that stuff isn't at my kids' school.  But maybe not.

That’s awesome. While some places are definitely better than others, nowhere is safe from this crap. It is directed to the states from the federal level, so it is there in some form, even if “minor” in comparison to off-the-rail places like CA, etc. Bottom line is parents need to be vigilant and continuously demand full transparency and understanding of curriculum their kids are under. If there’s the slightest pushback from teachers, admin, or school board when you ask pointed questions and demand to see things for yourself - you have a much bigger problem than you think. 

[BFM this]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

That’s awesome. While some places are definitely better than others, nowhere is safe from this crap. It is directed to the states from the federal level, so it is there in some form, even if “minor” in comparison to off-the-rail places like CA, etc. Bottom line is parents need to be vigilant and continuously demand full transparency and understanding of curriculum their kids are under. If there’s the slightest pushback from teachers, admin, or school board when you ask pointed questions and demand to see things for yourself - you have a much bigger problem than you think. 

Shack.

I've decided, though I haven't seen any evidence of chicanery, that I'll make it a point just to go sit in on a school board meeting.  And make it a point to vote in school board elections.  Again, not because I think there is anything nefarious afoot in my little ISD, but because it is clearly important for parents to show up and be visible; if only to shake hands and thank the board members that have taken the time to step up and serve.  Message sent.

[BashiChuni]

In other news home fitness is now associated with the far right. 
 

 

[Smokin]

So apparently if you want to be in shape, you're a Hitler Youth? 

Also, how did the left succeed in pulling the switch-a-roo on making the Nazis right wing?  Last I checked the official party title was the National Socialist German Workers Party.  Only a the modern American liberal could come up with something so absurd as a Socialist Workers party being right wing.

[Prozac]

17 hours ago, Smokin said:

So apparently if you want to be in shape, you're a Hitler Youth? 

Also, how did the left succeed in pulling the switch-a-roo on making the Nazis right wing?  Last I checked the official party title was the National Socialist German Workers Party.  Only a the modern American liberal could come up with something so absurd as a Socialist Workers party being right wing.

Uhhh no. Only a broken education system and a public with a complete lack of historical curiosity would believe that the Nazi party was actually socialist. Despite the name, they were very much fascist by the time they gained power, which is in fact, about as right wing as you can get. I dunno, maybe open a history book or two once in a while? 🤷‍♂️ 

BTW: completely agree the MSNBC story is ludicrous. 

[bfargin]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Uhhh no. Only a broken education system and a public with a complete lack of historical curiosity would believe that the Nazi party was actually socialist. Despite the name, they were very much fascist by the time they gained power, which is in fact, about as right wing as you can get. I dunno, maybe open a history book or two once in a while? 🤷‍♂️ 

BTW: completely agree the MSNBC story is ludicrous. 

They were very much socialist until they got into power...just like all of the other socialist countries' leadership has done. I'd argue the political spectrum can't be viewed as a tape-measure/line but rather as a loop/circle and the far left and far right meet on the backside at fascism. Small sample but look at the antifa/BLM movements and see how they are fascists in their own right but claim to be on the leftist end of things. Both extremes end with absolute control and tyranny.

[Prozac]

6 hours ago, bfargin said:

They were very much socialist until they got into power...just like all of the other socialist countries' leadership has done. I'd argue the political spectrum can't be viewed as a tape-measure/line but rather as a loop/circle and the far left and far right meet on the backside at fascism. Small sample but look at the antifa/BLM movements and see how they are fascists in their own right but claim to be on the leftist end of things. Both extremes end with absolute control and tyranny.

Nice try linking today’s left to the Nazis. The far left and the far right don’t come close to meeting. They are polar opposites. At the far left end you have socialism (you know, real actual socialism where the government owns and runs everything…usually poorly, vs. calling anyone who ever voted for a democrat a socialist) and communism. On the far right is fascism/nationalism (like the Nazis….I won’t go into their history or why they were never really Socialist here. There are plenty of places to read all about it). Agree that both extremes lead to absolutism & eventual collapse which is why most aspiring normal folk should strive to stay far, far away from the fringes. 

[Milton]

16 hours ago, Prozac said:

Nice try linking today’s left to the Nazis. The far left and the far right don’t come close to meeting. They are polar opposites. At the far left end you have socialism (you know, real actual socialism where the government owns and runs everything…usually poorly, vs. calling anyone who ever voted for a democrat a socialist) and communism. On the far right is fascism/nationalism (like the Nazis….I won’t go into their history or why they were never really Socialist here. There are plenty of places to read all about it). Agree that both extremes lead to absolutism & eventual collapse which is why most aspiring normal folk should strive to stay far, far away from the fringes. 

Unfortunately the notions of "left" and "right" today are obscured by cultural and historic definitions, as the left and right "wings" harken back to the national assembly during the period of the French Revolution.  The two-dimensional "political spectrum" only muddies these concepts as, in practice, separating economic and social liberty (or control) is near impossible.  People tend to form political associations based on broad ideological beliefs (e.g. freedom vs control) or by more empirical or granular issues (e.g. tax rates, abortion, gun control, regulation, etc), none of which are easily placed in a single quadrant.

Assuming the "far left" and "far right," meaning the commonly understood totalitarian ideologies of communism and fascism, don't come close to "meeting" presents a false choice, with the "moderate" position simply being placed between the two.  Communism (or in practice, socialism) and fascism have more in common than most realize as they are both collectivist ideologies that subordinate the individual to the group, whose locus of control is by default the state.  Unlike classical liberalism, neither recognizes the sanctity of the individual, and their rights, if any, are merely utilitarian and subject to the whims of the state and the party.  The term "fascism" has latin roots, symbolically as a bundle of sticks fastened together (symbolizing the strength of the group under the leader).  The ideological origins of fascism in Italy, first authored by Giovanni Gentile and practiced by Mussolini, were actually socialist in character. 

Quote

Gentile went so far as to declare “Fascism is a form of socialism, in fact, it is its most viable form.” One of the most common reflections on this is that fascism is itself socialism based on national identity.

https://fee.org/articles/theres-no-denying-the-socialist-roots-of-fascism/

Gentile was influenced not only by Karl Marx, the father of authoritarian socialism, but also Hegel, who was essentially the ideological grandfather of authoritarian socialism (Marx's main man), having developed the notions of dialectical historicism and German idealism (awful!).  His convoluted philosophy ultimately boils down to nothing more than nineteenth century alchemy that influenced a number of terrible ideas and regimes.

While many historical and contemporary advocates of socialism have decried any common ideological roots or practical similarities between socialism/communism and fascism/nazism, these splinters are regular features in their ideologies.  For example, the infighting between Bolsheviks & Mensheviks during the Russian Revolution, the left-opposition against the Stalinist "right," the purging of party members following Lenin's death (and Trotsky's ultimate demise by icepick to the skull) under Stalin, the Night of the Long Knives (Nazi "socialist workers party" members killed by Hitler), and so on.  These ideological "splits" demonstrate that just because one faction is opposed to the other, they are not polar opposites but merely dissenting factions.  

Practically speaking, both Nazism/fascism and socialism/communism as political and economic systems concentrate power under the state.  Both are opposed to free market capitalism, private property rights, and individual liberty.  Its well understood that both systems restrict or eliminate civil liberties and clamp down on dissent, freedom of speech/expression, privacy, etc.  What's more telling is the similarity in their economic systems.  Many socialist ideologies  propose that the means of production will be owned by "the workers" which, due to its absurdity, gives rise to the state ownership of production, i.e. a centrally planned, state-run economy that eliminates market and price signals and private property rights.  Fascism and nazism likewise take control of existing private enterprises, eliminate or restrict property rights, and establish wage and price controls under state mandates.  

Quote

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it.

Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

Here's an even better example.  Look at the proposed economic policies of a Bernie Sanders (Democratic Socialist) or an Elizabeth Warren (Progressive Dem) type and compare them to Fascist Italy...

Quote

A former school teacher, Mussolini’s spending on the public sector, schools and infrastructure was considered extravagant. Mussolini "instituted a programme of public works hitherto unrivaled in modern Europe. Bridges, canals and roads were built, hospitals and schools, railway stations and orphanages; swamps were drained and land reclaimed, forests were planted and universities were endowed".^[21] As for the scope and spending on social welfare programs, Italian fascism "compared favorably with the more advanced European nations and in some respect was more progressive".^[22] When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian fascism in 1939, the reply was: "It is like your New Deal!".^[23]

By 1925, the Fascist government had "embarked upon an elaborate program" that included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing and old age and disability insurance.^[24] As for public works, the Mussolini's administration "devoted 400 million lire of public monies" for school construction between 1922 and 1942, compared to only 60 million lire between 1862 and 1922.^[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Fascist_Italy

I'm sure none of us favor a political or economic system that is "far left" (communist) or "far right (fascist)" but given this dichotomy would likely describe ourselves as "moderate."  But placing oneself in between fascism and communism is...absurd.  If one were to ask your political beliefs, would you say "Well, I'm somewhere between Stalin and Hitler"?  That...doesn't sound right.   If we look at the ideologies and history of these regimes, it becomes obvious that liberal, free-market capitalism (what we nominally have in the West) is not in between the far left and far right, but rather completely separate and opposed to either system.  If anything, fascism is between free market capitalism and communism.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Milton

[dream big]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:53 AM, Prozac said:

Uhhh no. Only a broken education system and a public with a complete lack of historical curiosity would believe that the Nazi party was actually socialist. Despite the name, they were very much fascist by the time they gained power, which is in fact, about as right wing as you can get. I dunno, maybe open a history book or two once in a while? 🤷‍♂️ 

BTW: completely agree the MSNBC story is ludicrous. 

Socialism and fascism are not mutually exclusive.  Ask Russia, Venezuela and many others.  The former is an economic system while the latter is a form of governance. 

[Smokin]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:53 PM, Prozac said:

Uhhh no. Only a broken education system and a public with a complete lack of historical curiosity would believe that the Nazi party was actually socialist. Despite the name, they were very much fascist by the time they gained power, which is in fact, about as right wing as you can get. I dunno, maybe open a history book or two once in a while? 🤷‍♂️ 

BTW: completely agree the MSNBC story is ludicrous. 

Nice try, but I have a masters degree in history, so I have opened a history book or two or hundreds or thousands.  I agree and understand that calling yourself something does not mean that you enact that system.  But, as others have pointed out, the Nazis were not pure socialists, but their economic system of governance was much more towards the socialist side than the capitalist side.  Some have claimed that Hitler actually privatized large parts of the German economy, such as the railroads, but it should be noted that new majority stakeholder that benefited from that privatization was an early supporter of Hitler and was heavily involved in government activities.  That is hardly a free market.  Germany moved significantly away from a capitalist society under the Nazi rule and even "private" (Lufthansa, BMW, etc) companies were not free to do as they desired in a capitalist free market but were often directed what to do and how to do it by the Nazi government.  That is strongly on the socialist side of the economic spectrum, thus it is reasonable that the Nazis when they called themselves socialists and were in fact socialists.

Also, as others have pointed out, politics are often too complicated to put on a simple linear model.  But if you were to make a simplified American political thought process on a linear spectrum, a larger and more invasive government is the left side, and a smaller and less invasive government would be on the right side.  While greatly simplified, the Nazis would clearly fall on the far left in this model.