C-130 crash lands at Taji north of Baghdad

[ClearedHot]

Multiple sources reporting injuries but no fatalities.

[jrizzell]

Multiple sources reporting injuries but no fatalities.

Wonder if this was H or J

[lloyd christmas]

3 hours ago, jrizzell said:

Wonder if this was H or J

H

[D_Vezencuando]

CJTF-OIR Spokesman Twitter feed: June 8, appx. 10:10 pm (Iraq time), a U.S. Air Force C-130H landing at Camp Taji Airbase, Iraq overran the runway and crashed into a wall. Small fire. 4xInjured; treated at Taji. Enemy activity NOT suspected. Investigation continues. (Link via drive.com and Twitter.) 

[dream big]

On 6/8/2020 at 9:16 PM, jrizzell said:

Damn it Guard/Reserves, that’s why we can have nice things...hopefully no one is seriously injured

In my experience, most guard/reserve bubbas are some of the best in the business.  They are also generally more experienced.  I’d fly into combat any day with them.  I know you were probably trying to be funny with your post but it came off super douchey especially since our fellow aviators are still in the hospital.  
 

[jrizzell]

I deleted the post, I didn’t realize that people where that seriously injured. Shit timing, during an attempt at good natured ribbing. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by jrizzell

[nunya]

Any names released yet?

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, nunya said:

Any names released yet?

Don’t think that’s normally a thing in the case of injuries and no fatalities.

[M2]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33942/air-force-c-130h-smacks-into-wall-bursts-into-flames-after-overshooting-runway-in-iraq

And of course, we have video...

If that clip doesn't play, go directly to the link:

https://twitter.com/CivMilAir/status/1270118492939997190

Why anyone feels the need to post such shit on the Internet is beyond me...

[AirGuardianC141747]

20 hours ago, jrizzell said:

I deleted the post, I didn’t realize that people where that seriously injured. Shit timing, during an attempt at good natured ribbing. 

Fair Game - Good ribbing: Actually you kind of said it correctly for many Guard/Reserve units. You were quoted “that’s why we CAN have nice things”. Reserve components historically have received the hand me down airframes. I.E. - All active duty C-130J models vs only 2 or so in the Guard at most are the legacy H models. Active normally gets the nice things first so you were correct - just poking. However, when we get the previously worn clothes - we clean them up and make them nicer than they have been for decades. Longevity Pride is what I call it and we rarely get new toys... 

Timing is everything and we got it. Good jab, good jab. 

[lloyd christmas]

1 hour ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Fair Game - Good ribbing: Actually you kind of said it correctly for many Guard/Reserve units. You were quoted “that’s why we CAN have nice things”. Reserve components historically have received the hand me down airframes. I.E. - All active duty C-130J models vs only 2 or so in the Guard at most are the legacy H models. Active normally gets the nice things first so you were correct - just poking. However, when we get the previously worn clothes - we clean them up and make them nicer than they have been for decades. Longevity Pride is what I call it and we rarely get new toys... 

Timing is everything and we got it. Good jab, good jab. 

Since this is a C-130 thread and we are now talking about how the ANG "historically" gets hand me downs...  The AD received one squadron worth of new slick C-130H3s back in the day (50th at Little Rock 1992-1993 tails).  Every other slick H2 or H3 went to the Guard/Reserves brand new from the factory.  The H2/H3 line lasted from 1978ish to 1996.  I don't know of any other airframe that tells so much by their serial number.  For instance, 89-1182 was delivered to the 118 Airlift Wing in Nashville, 93-1459 was delivered to the 145th AW in Charlotte,  86-1396 was delivered new to the 139th AW at St. Joe,  85-1365 was delivered to the 136th AW in Fort Worth, etc.    You can tell where just about every H2 or H3 was delivered by that serial number.  I expect the same when the 3 ANG guard units that are getting new Js are announced later this summer.  Most folks also don't know that all 100 series squadron/wing numbers are dedicated to the ANG.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by lloyd christmas

[herkbier]

To pile on.. it’s my second- and third-hand understanding that there are some ANG and/or ARC units that are actively avoiding the J because of the loss of two crew positions. 
 

[dream big]

11 hours ago, herkbier said:

To pile on.. it’s my second- and third-hand understanding that there are some ANG and/or ARC units that are actively avoiding the J because of the loss of two crew positions. 
 

While that is true, ultimately it’s not the unit’s choice.  It is political and much higher than their pay grade.  Having flown both the J is multiple times more capable than the H.  There is zero reason to keep the H around. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

19 hours ago, herkbier said:

To pile on.. it’s my second- and third-hand understanding that there are some ANG and/or ARC units that are actively avoiding the J because of the loss of two crew positions. 
 

Concur, it is a key player in the decision tree matrix when unit conversions are discussed at the National Guard Bureau level.

8 hours ago, dream big said:

While that is true, ultimately it’s not the unit’s choice.  It is political and much higher than their pay grade.  Having flown both the J is multiple times more capable than the H.  There is zero reason to keep the H around. 

If using capabilities on an very specific Orange vs Orange contrasting argument there is much validity to your statement. Back in 1997-2000 during my first staff weenie tour as a Maintenance Officer there were 13 variants of the C-130 within the inventory it was a nightmare of sustainability.

Having been the Tactical Airlift Branch Chief at the Air National Guard Readiness Center - ANGRC (2013-15) there were/are a myriad of reasons to keep the legacy models moving forward. First and foremost the full scale wartime effort requirements to meet a 1.5 or 2 front posture (always fluid/changing environment based upon current and future threats) calling upon the Reserve Component = RC (the term used for Guard/Reserve combination) is mandatory with nearly 500 tails on the books depending on your count that day. It has decreased due to several unit conversions to UAV, C-17 and other platforms/mission set requirements. Other headliner reasons include the aforementioned political aspect no doubt and the always looming issue of strategic budget impact. You cannot meet the Quadrennial Defense Review dictated by the  National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) by simply converting all or most units with limited funding or simply closing them down (And then the politics become truly ferocious). Everything gets divided by each service at the 50,000 foot level as it finally makes its way down to each and every MWS and the capability it provides at the 500 foot level. As one simple example, the Army has airlift requirements to meet its wartime objectives when they push full scale or tilt and that calls for much more than the Active Duty can provide, hence the Reserve Components existence is mandatory. All services have an “Authorized Strength” Limit and are bumped up accordingly as the SECDEF approves dependent upon the contingency requirements. We also have active duty folks (Subject Matter Experts - SME’s) working with us on staff within the NGB/ANGRC HQs to assist unit integration/conversion/mission statements, etc. and my fellow Strategic Airlift Branch Chief was active duty and retired (lucky old bastard left me with it all - great friend even as a Nav,) so I had to take over both branches. Not only 20 C-130 units, 20 Tanker Units, 5 C-17 Units, and OSA. O-6 got pushed to Deputy A3 and they threw me in his spot overseeing all Airlift and AE Ops with a Total Operating Authority (TOA) of over $11B not million. That drove me up to the 30,000 foot mark for almost a year before an actual O-6 showed up when I left for Homeland defense. Job was mine, but I chose not to struggle thru PME during my staff horror. Not that I really had the time being on call 24/7. Staying O-5 helped me land the Homeland Defense spot on the beach I had been eyeballing 2 years prior. Apologies as I digressed.
 

*Zero reason to keep the C-141 around due to the superior performance of the C-17 and that was broadcasted by Big Blue back in the day. Once again, a very true observation 1 on 1. What the active duty failed to realize was despite its increased capabilities/cargo load, etc. they could not be in as many places at once with far less aircraft, hence the ever increasing aircraft procurements over a prolonged period. Other politics were involved, but bottom line is the footprint of nearly 300 C-141s cannot be filled by substantially less aircraft no matter how capable. Initial order was 120, then up to 160, 180 and finally 223 C-17s. Still more then 60 shy of C-141s but far better than what they thought they could do with far less. Very costly, but necessary to maintain a substantial foot print and how many times have you seen USAF aircraft procurement increase that rapidly from initial request other than UAVs, but that is new technology to be honest. Big blue even approved “Core 63”, an upgraded 75% all glass version designated as the C-141C model as they needed to extend the viability of an older aircraft (63 of them in the Guard/Reserve) while waiting for fresh off the assembly line C-17s to fill the huge gaping hole of airlift. This was my baby as the Program Manager during my first staff tour as a MX Officer and I eventually flew it as well after pilot training. Pacer Crag (KC-135 Cockpit/Avionics Upgrade) was the other debacle but don’t blame yours truly as I was 2nd in charge laughing at my boss pulling his hair out more than me. Trust me, I wish we could swap out aircraft at a rapid rate giving our warfighters far better capabilities they deserve without a limited annual budget, procurement rate and bureaucracy involved.

Edited June 11, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

21 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

Since this is a C-130 thread and we are now talking about how the ANG "historically" gets hand me downs...  The AD received one squadron worth of new slick C-130H3s back in the day (50th at Little Rock 1992-1993 tails).  Every other slick H2 or H3 went to the Guard/Reserves brand new from the factory.  The H2/H3 line lasted from 1978ish to 1996.  I don't know of any other airframe that tells so much by their serial number.  For instance, 89-1182 was delivered to the 118 Airlift Wing in Nashville, 93-1459 was delivered to the 145th AW in Charlotte,  86-1396 was delivered new to the 139th AW at St. Joe,  85-1365 was delivered to the 136th AW in Fort Worth, etc.    You can tell where just about every H2 or H3 was delivered by that serial number.  I expect the same when the 3 ANG guard units that are getting new Js are announced later this summer.  Most folks also don't know that all 100 series squadron/wing numbers are dedicated to the ANG.  

Very true, but it was Big Blues plan well prior to pitch for a new shiny model (substantially better than status quo = next generation) and not just a new somewhat upgraded variant of the C-130. You never ever have the latest and greatest of the legacy model of anything when going before Congress. Look here Congress, our Reserve Component will be doing fine for decades; however, our aging fleet should be of great concern, but we have insight to the possibility of the next generation “Super Herc” and we believe we can stretch our current fleet and replace them all with one single next gen Super Herc. Very strategic move on their part - very well thought out and I gotta give it to them. Chess game played extremely well. Remember, first C-130J flight was in 1996 and it was being redesigned well before that obviously - right around your early 90s timeframe. Overall, in 1997 at the Guard Bureau we vigorously attempted to combine all our variants to one combined effort with the Reserves calling the entire fleet modification C-130 AMP (Aircraft Modernization Program). We constantly traveled back and forth to Warner Robbins for multi-source contract comparison and bids to bring the USAF as a whole to 3 variants vs 13. Desperately pushing for C-130J Active Duty, C-130 AMP (Guard/Reserve) and the whatever the Special Ops required. It was an attempt to modernize decades sooner then wait at the back of the line and here we are today. What a bust at the time and I will admit pretty much a checkmate move by True Blue - very well done. That was a teaching moment and we learned some valuable lessons. All I can say is ANG is C-5 free, can’t win every battle but we have a few grand slams and we shuffle iron very well at times and not so much as well. C-27 what a fiasco, but during my 2nd staff tour when I first arrived and given the order to divest them (not my program), we were able to make some deals to transfer to another service and the Spec Ops community as not to waste a nearly brand new and some coming off the line from Italy. They were actually headed to the bone yard but we were very creative. Such a waste in Mil-con $$$... terrible.

Edited June 11, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[lloyd christmas]

I read an article recently that the AD accepted its final slick J model.  It'll be interesting to see which 3 of the 8 candidates in the guard get the J.  Should hear something official in the next few months.  Have consistently heard Ft Worth and Kentucky but no idea who the third would be now that Baltimore is out of the running.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

Good info right there. ANG sometimes gets lucky but it’s not always luck and this isn’t luck. It as exactly as projected over 20 years ago, but pretty awesome to get new birds whatever they may be. Even though back of the line in this case it is definitely better than our failed paralleled attempt at the C-130 AMP project. We’ll see who has the politics, mission statement priority and older equipment just to name a few of the criteria. Stay flying is better than not for most units. Although even a non-flying mission is better than no mission.

Edited June 12, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[McJay Pilot]

10 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

I read an article recently that the AD accepted its final slick J model.  It'll be interesting to see which 3 of the 8 candidates in the guard get the J.  Should hear something official in the next few months.  Have consistently heard Ft Worth and Kentucky but no idea who the third would be now that Baltimore is out of the running.  

Peoria had been pushing hard a few years ago for the J conversion. Who knows though.