Airline to fighters (updated info, first asked 9 months ago)

[ecc97]

Hello everyone,

So, in the last 9 months, I've applied to pretty much every fighter opening with no bites.  It's been a little discouraging, so I'm looking for some updated opinions/feedback.

I'm a current regional airline pilot trying to get a pilot slot with a guard fighter unit.

• Age: 23
• Finishing BS in Aeronautics from ERAU (finished by the end of November)
• GPA:  2.94 from one year of community college, 3.81 from ERAU
• AFOQT: Pilot-99, Nav-99, AcadApt-70, Verbal-79, Quant-56
• PCSM: 94
• ATP with 2625 hours, 1072 airline hours, current CFI/CFII, tailwheel
• LOR's from retired USAF Lt. Col./F16 driver, AA 737 captain/mentor
• 1 year experience as full time CFI/CFII, 2 years 4 months with the airlines

As far as 'extra curriculars' go:

• ALPA P2P and scheduling committee for my airline
• 7 years in CAP, started as a cadet, current senior member captain, national flight academy instructor, worked FEMA missions for Hurricane Harvey, RPA escort pilot, and Assistant Wing Emergency Services Officer

I've asked for some feedback for the units I've applied to, but haven't gotten any.

 

New Questions

With everything going on in the aviation world, and me being reasonably young, I'm seriously considering enlisting, both for the secure income source, and to check another resume box.  The unit I would be enlisting in would be my 'dream' unit.  Is this a wise course of action or no?

If you think I should enlist, what MOS should I have (crew chief, weapons, and life support and been mentioned).

Thanks

[mb1685]

Those credentials + scores seem absurdly good, plus fighter units tend to like to hire younger folks such as yourself. Have you checked out BogiDope's application review service? If you're getting no bites at all I wonder if maybe your cover letter is rubbing people the wrong way or something. Either that or maybe units are concerned you have so much experience that you'd have difficulty adjusting to military flying, but I know a couple of 2000+ hour airline guys who got picked up by Reserve units and it wasn't an issue.

The only other thing I could think of to suggest would be maybe a TBAS retake for the hell of it. My AFOQT Pilot score is in the low 90s and my PCSM 201+ hour projection bracket is 97, so with a 99 Pilot score and obviously over 201+ hours you should almost certainly be able to achieve a 99 PCSM with slightly better TBAS performance.

I can't speak much to enlisting but it sounds like a solid plan for the reasons you mentioned, especially since you're pretty young and have lots of time to get picked up.

Edited August 1, 2020 by mb1685

[ecc97]

11 minutes ago, mb1685 said:

Those credentials + scores seem absurdly good, plus fighter units tend to like to hire younger folks such as yourself. Have you checked out BogiDope's application review service? If you're getting no bites at all I wonder if maybe your cover letter is rubbing people the wrong way or something. Either that or maybe units are concerned you have so much experience that you'd have difficulty adjusting to military flying, but I know a couple of 2000+ hour airline guys who got picked up by Reserve units and it wasn't an issue.

I talked with bogidope before I sent out any apps, so all of my apps have cover letters and resumes that are BD reviewed.  I've also had some AF pilots (currently in and retired) read them over as well.  I've been nervous about the amount of hours, but there's nothing I can do about that.  I was also think the degree was the issue, but based on what I've read/heard, if you're within a few months, that problem seems to go away.  Is the degree the issue maybe?  Also, your take on enlisting?

 

Read the above, thanks.

Edited August 1, 2020 by ecc97
Saw comment addition

[jonlbs]

Timing can be everything. You are young and just need to keep beating down the doors. 

 

Don't enlist unless it is something you truly want to do, like be a mechanic. Don't enlist for the sake of improving your odds. But if you do enlist do a real man's job 2A6X1, MFE.

Edited August 1, 2020 by jonlbs

[N730]

I talked with bogidope before I sent out any apps, so all of my apps have cover letters and resumes that are BD reviewed.  I've also had some AF pilots (currently in and retired) read them over as well.  I've been nervous about the amount of hours, but there's nothing I can do about that.  I was also think the degree was the issue, but based on what I've read/heard, if you're within a few months, that problem seems to go away.  Is the degree the issue maybe?  Also, your take on enlisting?
 
Read the above, thanks.

The degree may have been an issue. They can't submit your appointment package without the degree, so maybe some units weren't wanting to wait.

As for enlisting, with your background, I wouldn't do it. Enlisting in a unit is not going to be a secure job, and it'd take a while to get a paycheck. Even if you enlisted, you'd sign up, go to meps, wait up to a year to go to BMT, then possibly wait again for tech school. And then it's far from guaranteed you'd have a full time spot.

So you could possibly be pushing yourself back 3-4 years. Then you'd be 27 and be one of the older applicants. Keep pushing, some people get hired in 6 months, so take a few years. Keep pushing and make sure to ask why you didn't get the interviews. Some will respond, some won't, but you definitely need to try to get feedback where you can.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[EvilEagle]

I also don't recommend enlisting.  Keep rushing, ask specific guys for feedback; ask the other guys that are rushing with you why they think you aren't getting good feedback.  I don't know you but ask yourself if your attitude is holding you back.  People don't like to give feedback that "you don't fit in with the squadron" or that you have a bad attitude.  Again, I'm not saying that's the case, but you have to ask yourself.  

 

Good luck. 

[ecc97]

8 hours ago, N730 said:

The degree may have been an issue. They can't submit your appointment package without the degree, so maybe some units weren't wanting to wait.

As for enlisting, with your background, I wouldn't do it. Enlisting in a unit is not going to be a secure job, and it'd take a while to get a paycheck. Even if you enlisted, you'd sign up, go to meps, wait up to a year to go to BMT, then possibly wait again for tech school. And then it's far from guaranteed you'd have a full time spot.

So you could possibly be pushing yourself back 3-4 years. Then you'd be 27 and be one of the older applicants. Keep pushing, some people get hired in 6 months, so take a few years. Keep pushing and make sure to ask why you didn't get the interviews. Some will respond, some won't, but you definitely need to try to get feedback where you can.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app
 

Thanks, November isn't far away thankfully, so I'll know one way of another.

[ecc97]

6 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

I also don't recommend enlisting.  Keep rushing, ask specific guys for feedback; ask the other guys that are rushing with you why they think you aren't getting good feedback.  I don't know you but ask yourself if your attitude is holding you back.  People don't like to give feedback that "you don't fit in with the squadron" or that you have a bad attitude.  Again, I'm not saying that's the case, but you have to ask yourself.  

 

Good luck. 

So about rushing, I've visited two units (dream unit, and a secondary), but all of the rest have said they will not schedule visits for applicants.  I'm not sure if there's a way around that, but I also don't want to come across as someone who feels the rules don't apply to them (most of my apps also went out in the spring, so COVID played a role in that).  Since you're very experienced with all of this, how does rushing typically work?  I can't imagine you just show up if the website says visits aren't allowed.  All the retired and still in people I've talked to said, unprompted, that my attitude is good.  Obviously, I don't let anything go to my head, but that must count for something.  With all my airline time, I take extra effort to not come off as a know-it-all, because in the USAF flying environment, I know basically nothing.

[ecc97]

18 hours ago, jonlbs said:

Timing can be everything. You are young and just need to keep beating down the doors. 

 

Don't enlist unless it is something you truly want to do, like be a mechanic. Don't enlist for the sake of improving your odds. But if you do enlist do a real man's job 2A6X1, MFE.

Thanks

[EvilEagle]

On 8/2/2020 at 12:45 AM, ecc97 said:

So about rushing, I've visited two units (dream unit, and a secondary), but all of the rest have said they will not schedule visits for applicants.  I'm not sure if there's a way around that, but I also don't want to come across as someone who feels the rules don't apply to them (most of my apps also went out in the spring, so COVID played a role in that).  Since you're very experienced with all of this, how does rushing typically work?  I can't imagine you just show up if the website says visits aren't allowed.  All the retired and still in people I've talked to said, unprompted, that my attitude is good.  Obviously, I don't let anything go to my head, but that must count for something.  With all my airline time, I take extra effort to not come off as a know-it-all, because in the USAF flying environment, I know basically nothing.

Don't show up if they say not to.  It's a strange year for everyone.  Timing is not the best for people looking to rush or for units looking to hire.  Play the long game, stay patient and keep the good attitude.  

[ryleypav]

If you dont get bites from the ANG units, there is always the AD route to consider as well. But keep applying to every unit you can. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by ryleypav

[N730]

So about rushing, I've visited two units (dream unit, and a secondary), but all of the rest have said they will not schedule visits for applicants.  I'm not sure if there's a way around that, but I also don't want to come across as someone who feels the rules don't apply to them (most of my apps also went out in the spring, so COVID played a role in that).  Since you're very experienced with all of this, how does rushing typically work?  I can't imagine you just show up if the website says visits aren't allowed.  All the retired and still in people I've talked to said, unprompted, that my attitude is good.  Obviously, I don't let anything go to my head, but that must count for something.  With all my airline time, I take extra effort to not come off as a know-it-all, because in the USAF flying environment, I know basically nothing.

If they say don't come, you can't come. Some units don't allow rushing any year, so what I did when I came across one of those was think of what questions I had and I asked if any of the pilots would mind taking a phone call. One of the guys was more than happy and he gave me a call. I had about a 20-30 minutes conversation with one of the guys while he was commuting to drill. I don't know if that's what made the difference and got me the interview, but it didn't hurt.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[ecc97]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:53 PM, EvilEagle said:

Don't show up if they say not to.  It's a strange year for everyone.  Timing is not the best for people looking to rush or for units looking to hire.  Play the long game, stay patient and keep the good attitude.  

Much appreciated, thank you.

[ecc97]

On 8/5/2020 at 8:03 PM, N730 said:

If they say don't come, you can't come. Some units don't allow rushing any year, so what I did when I came across one of those was think of what questions I had and I asked if any of the pilots would mind taking a phone call. One of the guys was more than happy and he gave me a call. I had about a 20-30 minutes conversation with one of the guys while he was commuting to drill. I don't know if that's what made the difference and got me the interview, but it didn't hurt.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app
 

This is very helpful, noted for the future.  Thank you.

[ecc97]

On 8/5/2020 at 11:09 AM, ryleypav said:

If you dont get bites from the ANG units, there is always the AD route to consider as well. But keep applying to every unit you can. 

Thank you, I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.