UPT Segregation

[Pooter]

In tonight's installment of "Ideas that sounded good but JQP will have an absolute field day with"..

Has anyone heard about this new "America class" initiative at UPT bases?  Apparently AETC leadership has decided to create entire UPT classes of only women and minorities. 

[SurelySerious]

56 minutes ago, Pooter said:

In tonight's installment of "Ideas that sounded good but JQP will have an absolute field day with"..

Has anyone heard about this new "America class" initiative at UPT bases?  Apparently AETC leadership has decided to create entire UPT classes of only women and minorities. 

Wait, what?

[gearhog]

Yes, back in 2018. Guess they're getting serious about implementing it?

https://www.airforcemag.com/Goldfein-Solutions-for-the-Pilot-Crisis-Center-on-Diversity/

The Air Force’s pilot shortage crisis offers “an opportunity for bold moves” to build the service’s diversity while correcting the growing deficit in aviators, Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said Wednesday at the conclusion of a daylong summit on the problem.

Those moves might include grouping minority pilot trainees together at flight school in order to have a built-in support system, building tighter relationships with community groups that promote minorities and women in aviation, making better use of Civil Air Patrol community outreach, and having pilot trainees meet with local schoolchildren as they make stops on cross-country flights.

 

[pawnman]

Certainly this won't be compared to "separate but equal".

Can't help but wonder if the instructors will be similarly segregated.  Can you imagine getting yelled at by your commander as a white male pilot for failing someone in the "minorities only" class when they suck?

[YoungnDumb]

Based on the current break down of UPT instructors/the AF in general they would have difficulty making it minority only IP's, particularly on the -38 side of the house.

[CharlieHotel47]

This is probably the dumbest ideal I have ever heard of... what are they going to accomplish by segregation? Are they hoping to attract more minorities by advertising such conditions at UPT?


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[waveshaper]

22 minutes ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

This is probably the dumbest ideal I have ever heard of... what are they going to accomplish by segregation? Are they hoping to attract more minorities by advertising such conditions at UPT?


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This seems like a move from the original Tuskegee Airmen recruitment playbook:

IMHO, the folks that came up with this idea need to attend this new USAF Microaggressions Course;

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/08/26/conversation-about-race-air-force-warns-troops-avoid-microaggressions.html

[dream big]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

In tonight's installment of "Ideas that sounded good but JQP will have an absolute field day with"..

Has anyone heard about this new "America class" initiative at UPT bases?  Apparently AETC leadership has decided to create entire UPT classes of only women and minorities. 

Wouldn’t surprise me.  Our priorities as a service and DOD is putting us on a clear tragedy our to lose the next major war.  I wish I was saying that jokingly but I’m genuinely concerned about our time honored capabilities to fly, fight and win. 

[Majestik Møøse]

Senior military leaders often commit a perception error by assuming the rest of the world has been following their problems the entire time and will understand their solutions. Obviously, the man on the street has no idea about the micro-politics that take place in the AF, much less AETC.

So when the opposing sides of the media discover that our attempt at solving perceived organizational bias is literally segregation, those AETC leaders are going to have a really hard time explaining their decisions in the one sentence they’ll be afforded.

[Pooter]

So it's not full segregation, they're just robbing the diversity from the surrounding classes to make one super diverse class..

Sounds like this is going to accomplish a lot 

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Certainly this won't be compared to "separate but equal".

Can't help but wonder if the instructors will be similarly segregated.  Can you imagine getting yelled at by your commander as a white male pilot for failing someone in the "minorities only" class when they suck?

I don't envy the position those instructors will be put in. Washing someone out of that class for performance will be next to impossible, but don't worry, leadership will still insist they aren't changing the standard. And god forbid a student in that class develops an attitude problem. You might have to use your white male privilege to mansplain to them why they're on Mil Cap. 
 

But I think the real travesty here is what this is going to do to the students who did not ask to be in this class. UPT is hard enough without being forced into a contrived social justice experiment. And like it or not, the stink of being in the woke test case class will stick with these students long after their time in UPT.. much like the VR babies our wonderful banzai flights are churning out. I really resent that leadership is foisting their political insecurities on these young officers right as they start their careers. 
 

To the students: good luck, study hard, and fly safe. Try not to let this political nonsense distract you. 
To leadership: I cannot wait to watch this inevitable PR sh*tstorm blow up in your face. 

[ctf151]

2030: Units exclusively made up of transgender women of color

 

[SurelySerious]

4 hours ago, PilotCandidate said:

A good buddy of mine in “America’s class” just started this past Wednesday. It’s not entirely women and minorities but the diversity is definitely greater than most classes. 
 

I don’t have all the numbers off the top of my head but they have ~8 women and a roughly equal amount minorities out of a class of 28. Allegedly, they were told the demographics were supposed to represent American demographics as a whole and they wanted to see if these class demographics would lead to higher graduation rates for said members. 
 

For reference, my class of 26 Americans (not counting 2 Saudis) is:

26 white male/0 minorities/0 women

Ok, that’s more normal. But I also think you change your outreach to kids and recruiting so you get to those numbers without doctoring the classes. 

[M2]

And here I was thinking the point of UPT was to produce military pilots...

[tedybearofdoom]

My two cents as a first generation immigrant, this is a stupid idea. I'd imagine you'd want classes to have the opportunity to get viewpoints and bond with minorities, not throw them all in one class and separate them. I get that the AF demographics aren't representative of the population as a whole in the Air Force but how does this change anything? They should focus on outreach, I never considered joining until I was a senior in college and it was by chance I had a professor who was a retired AF Officer. They should also streamline the recruiting process for OTS. I was a non-select the 1st time I applied and after I got picked up the second time around, it took 1.5 years from application to attending OTS which is quicker then most. Some people don't have the luxury of waiting around 6 months for a board decision then waiting to  go to OTS.

[HuggyU2]

M2, you're so naive.  

[Hacker]

9 hours ago, PilotCandidate said:

they wanted to see if these class demographics would lead to higher graduation rates for said members.

Uh...I don't even know how to respond to such a logic-free hypothesis.

Maybe next they can check to see if different t-shirt colors lead to higher graduation rates.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Hacker

[youdontknowthis]

Current graduation rates have to be less than 1 washout per class doesn’t it? Making this about graduation rates seem to be beyond ridiculous. 

[Majestik Møøse]

15 hours ago, Hacker said:

Uh...I don't even know how to respond to such a logic-free hypothesis.

Maybe next they can check to see if different t-shirt colors lead to higher graduation rates.

They do. We did away with black t-shirts and now everyone graduates UPT.

[Bob Uecker]

19 hours ago, tedybearofdoom said:

My two cents as a first generation immigrant, this is a stupid idea. I'd imagine you'd want classes to have the opportunity to get viewpoints and bond with minorities, not throw them all in one class and separate them. I get that the AF demographics aren't representative of the population as a whole in the Air Force but how does this change anything? They should focus on outreach, I never considered joining until I was a senior in college and it was by chance I had a professor who was a retired AF Officer. They should also streamline the recruiting process for OTS. I was a non-select the 1st time I applied and after I got picked up the second time around, it took 1.5 years from application to attending OTS which is quicker then most. Some people don't have the luxury of waiting around 6 months for a board decision then waiting to  go to OTS.

All same here, first person in my family born in America. Whoever thought of this idea was completely out of their element.

I joined ROTC pretty late, my two cents on their “outreach” is this: its complete booty. Theres no real effort at the officer recruitment level at diversity.

[gearhog]

20 hours ago, tedybearofdoom said:

My two cents as a first generation immigrant, this is a stupid idea. I'd imagine you'd want classes to have the opportunity to get viewpoints and bond with minorities, not throw them all in one class and separate them. I get that the AF demographics aren't representative of the population as a whole in the Air Force but how does this change anything?

Exactly. How many homogeneous white male classes must be created in order to extract enough females and minorities to form one "America" class?

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Bob Uecker said:

Theres no real effort at the officer recruitment level at diversity.

That’s the only place that would actually make sense to increase outreach. Stop all this bullshit and simply increase awareness and education on officer/pilot opportunities in areas where there is likely zero of that going on. How many tens of thousands of kids in large cities even know being a pilot in the AF is an option? How many of those kids who even slightly mention the idea are told it’s “impossible” by some civilian who doesn’t know jack shit? The same can be said for a poor, rural area. If these kids are even approached by military recruitment, it’s to enlist, and even the recruiters likely tell them flying is such a long shot they should just get it out of their minds immediately. 

Someone with actual SA reach out to minorities/women and tell them how very doable it is to become an officer and pilot; we’ll actually see diversity increase the right way. 

[jice]

5 hours ago, brabus said:

That’s the only place that would actually make sense to increase outreach. Stop all this bullshit and simply increase awareness and education on officer/pilot opportunities in areas where there is likely zero of that going on. How many tens of thousands of kids in large cities even know being a pilot in the AF is an option? How many of those kids who even slightly mention the idea are told it’s “impossible” by some civilian who doesn’t know jack shit? The same can be said for a poor, rural area. If these kids are even approached by military recruitment, it’s to enlist, and even the recruiters likely tell them flying is such a long shot they should just get it out of their minds immediately. 

Someone with actual SA reach out to minorities/women and tell them how very doable it is to become an officer and pilot; we’ll actually see diversity increase the right way. 

Totally agree with you. 

I’m skeptical of the rationale that’s being repeated in this thread re: the justification behind an “America Class.” No offense intended to student pilots, but has anybody in a position to speak to the decisionmakers’ rationale provided insight? “Checking washout rates” seems like a massive misunderstanding of social science and statistics or something coercive with subversively racist intent. (I have faith the latter isn’t the case and hope the former isn’t either... though “no class As for X years!... don’t notice all the Bs and Cs” doesn’t build confidence.) 

In any case, @brabus’s comment is a perfect reason that we shouldn’t let anybody (to include the young guns at work) see us roll our eyes at the seemingly clumsy and overtly progressive “first all XYZ ABC” stories. Those are exactly the reactions that give people confidence in saying “it’s going to be harder for you; don’t bother.” The only ones with actual SA are us. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by jice

[Sprkt69]

The good news is 2 of the students in that class are UPT Next washouts

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said:

The good news is 2 of the students in that class are UPT Next washouts

People wash out of a UPT experimental class into normal UPT?