ALTREV

[MechGov]

Does anyone have any experience getting a CONUS-based ALTREV coordinated? I’m trying to figure out how to set up AAR off track and the local knowledge how to do that has departed the fix.

[nunya]

I haven’t done that but I’ve had good luck simply calling the appropriate ARTCC ops desk for other stuff.

https://atccommunication.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ARTCCphone.pdf

 

[Danger41]

I’ve got quite a bit of experience, just not with your specific request. I’d start with the local FSDO and TRACON and ask for their mil ops liaison.

[brickhistory]

Mecca for ALTRV's is the Central Altitude Reservation Function (CARF) - the gurus who actually do the work.

https://www.fly.faa.gov/carf/

 

Link only has an e-mail and it's been way too long for me to have a phone number for them.

Next best bet would be finding the phone number for the National Air Traffic Services Cell (NATSC - a DoD (USAF actually) office co-located in the FAA's ATC Command Center and shares offices with CARF.  Sorry, don't have current phone numbers.

[Scooter14]

According to the Coronet guys I work with, for a good time call (703) 904-4426 or DSN 725-3331.

[Skitzo]

Does anyone have any experience getting a CONUS-based ALTREV coordinated? I’m trying to figure out how to set up AAR off track and the local knowledge how to do that has departed the fix.

I have experience but it was a long time ago.

Is your ALTRV going to be in one area? If so you can do a Stationary ALTRV. Just a rectangle.

If not you are going to need a moving ALTRV which is written in a specific format.

If you are in a non radar environment you are going to need two ALTRVs one for yourself as the receiver and a support ALTRV for the tanker.

I second the recommendation to get in touch with the CARF and if you have a hookup at TACC XOOX short notice branch they have a lot of knowledge.

Don’t call anyone though until you have a winded CFPS flight plan with times listed as running Zulu (I believe)


https://www.navybmr.com/study%20material/76104smo.pdf

See page 3-9-1

[brabus]

Is there a MOA or restricted area that’s located roughly where you need AR? If so, that’s another option in lieu of an ALTRV.  

[MechGov]

Is there a MOA or restricted area that’s located roughly where you need AR? If so, that’s another option in lieu of an ALTRV.  

That’s a good idea, it should work for one of the lower altitude tracks I need.

[ThreeHoler]

You don’t need an ALTRV in the US. It’s nice to coordinate with CARF but your tanker can just file and request random AR along the route of flight.


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[brabus]

Who approves that, center? 

[Orbit]

38 minutes ago, brabus said:

Who approves that, center? 

Yes, random AR can be approved by center.  

As far as AR off of published tracks in the NAS there are ways to coordinate with center to get approval for that kind of stuff.  I'd recommend looking at the JO 7610.4 lots of good information, it is FOUO so you might have to go through your pubs shop or OGV to get it.

If you are lazy and can settle for the 90% solution filing to a track/anchor and requesting random once joined up usually is no problem.  

[brabus]

I’ve asked tanker units about this exact thing several times and have always been told not possible from multiple units. Good to know it is possible, I’ll push harder next time and provide that reference. 

[ThreeHoler]

I’ve asked tanker units about this exact thing several times and have always been told not possible from multiple units. Good to know it is possible, I’ll push harder next time and provide that reference. 

If you’re talking to the little tanker that’s probably the best answer you’ll get.

We do random AR and non-standard formation all the time.

“TANKR 11 request random AR along the route of flight FL220B240.”

And ATC has always said “approved.”

[UPT-hopeful]

4 hours ago, brabus said:

I’ve asked tanker units about this exact thing several times and have always been told not possible from multiple units. Good to know it is possible, I’ll push harder next time and provide that reference. 

Don’t know the validity, but when I’ve asked tanker squadrons to do this, they’ve said they can’t file for a random specifically, but if we meet them in the MOA they would be happy to drag us as far as they could. Never had a center deny it once we were airborne. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by UPT-hopeful

[Runr6730]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

If you’re talking to the little tanker that’s probably the best answer you’ll get.

We do random AR and non-standard formation all the time.

“TANKR 11 request random AR along the route of flight FL220B240.”

And ATC has always said “approved.”

 

ATC will usually allow random AAR if traffic and workload permit.  They also may have to re-route you to accommodate the request, which is why Coronets are flown on ALTRVs to ensure that airspace and route of flight is pre-coordinated.  I wouldn't plan on requesting random AAR in busy airspace unless absolutely necessary.  

I've found that tankers crews that routinely conduct buddy AAR (KC-10, KC-46) and experienced KC-135 pilots usually have no problem requesting it if needed.