How am I going to charge my electric car?

[arg]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/02/14/Winter-storm-alerts-power-outages-cover-the-map-as-storms-slam-US/5231613337554/?ur3=1

Pretty bad storm.

P.S. I know if the power's out you most likely can't get fuel either.

[Clark Griswold]

In answer to your topic question, probably not with much wind generated electricity right now:

Historic winter storm freezes Texas wind turbines, millions without power - TheBlaze

[arg]

I can throw my diesel generator in my truck and drive around charging people for charging(yuk yuk) their cars. Future business venture.

[17D_guy]

29 minutes ago, arg said:

I can throw my diesel generator in my truck and drive around charging people for charging(yuk yuk) their cars. Future business venture.

Your transformation to Immorten Joe is complete.

[SocialD]

Old recycle,  but always a good one.  

 

 

[jazzdude]

In answer to your topic question, probably not with much wind generated electricity right now:
Historic winter storm freezes Texas wind turbines, millions without power - TheBlaze

This is a pretty interesting problem to solve in the to move towards relying on wind/solar power as a primary means of power.

Not sure spraying de-ice or anti-ice fluid on windmills is practical or environmentally friendly. Maybe electrically heated blades?

But probably too expensive to implement for the once in decade ice storm, unless power companies are required to implement something.

In the meantime, probably pays to have a home generator for emergencies.

[arg]

I'll run my generator on used oil from KFC, when they smell the exhaust they will get hungry. Then I will sell them fried chicken which I'll conveniently have in my truck.  Oh wait, if they're driving an electric car they're probably vegan.

[Smokin]

Gas stations may be out, but with anytime there's a chance for bad weather my truck tank gets filled.  On a full tank, I'm good for 500 miles, plus the additional many miles I could get if I really needed to by siphoning the gas out of my boat, mower, etc.  When I can do that with an electric truck, count me in.  Until then, I'll stick to burning dinosaurs.

[uhhello]

29 minutes ago, Smokin said:

Gas stations may be out, but with anytime there's a chance for bad weather my truck tank gets filled.  On a full tank, I'm good for 500 miles, plus the additional many miles I could get if I really needed to by siphoning the gas out of my boat, mower, etc.  When I can do that with an electric truck, count me in.  Until then, I'll stick to burning dinosaurs.

That's the crux of it.  I'd love to have a Model S or X as a daily driver.  It makes all the sense in the world.  Our solar produces more power than we use for the house monthly.  They are quick as fuck and super safe.  No power no juice though and multiple charge long distance trips don't sound fun currently.  I'd have one but they are just a bit outside my price range equipped as I'd want it currently.

[FDNYOldGuy]

3 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

In answer to your topic question, probably not with much wind generated electricity right now:

Historic winter storm freezes Texas wind turbines, millions without power - TheBlaze

This article seems to say it’s far from being solely based on frozen wind turbines. Sounds like base load, solar/wind, and the grid itself are all failing massively.

Perhaps it’s a little of the old Enron runaround with companies diddling with the grid to garner profits. They used to cut power to CA just to juice rates and, well, that was like 20 years ago...everyone probably forgot about that by now.

I mean, who would think Wall St. would do people wrong?

Funds bought U.S. crude ahead of big freeze - John Kemp

[jazzdude]

This article seems to say it’s far from being solely based on frozen wind turbines. Sounds like base load, solar/wind, and the grid itself are all failing massively.
Perhaps it’s a little of the old Enron runaround with companies diddling with the grid to garner profits. They used to cut power to CA just to juice rates and, well, that was like 20 years ago...everyone probably forgot about that by now.
I mean, who would think Wall St. would do people wrong?
Funds bought U.S. crude ahead of big freeze - John Kemp

Sure, power companies could be hesitant to fire up excessive capacity to keep the profit margins up (wind is kinda free, vs coal or nuclear have a cost associated with increasing output).

But ignoring that, you can only transmit so much power along a line. Try to pull too much power, and then stuff starts breaking and making the problem worse (hence the outages when demand looks like it's going to exceed capacity). So then it becomes a jigsaw puzzle to figure out how to route power from backup sources to where it's needed, and ensuring that at every point along the way you aren't exceeding capacity. While operating on aging infrastructure. Keeping the windmills going keeps more capacity on line, and reduces load across the system since more sources of power are available to feed the system.

Put those two issues together, and without government forcing power companies to make improvements, or provide certain levels of power, it can be easy (and financially advantages) to make no improvements. Without regulations, there's no repercussions for failure.

You also have to reduce demand. But people stuck inside are likely to use their electronic devices and entertainment centers to stay entertained, maybe run electric heaters and lights (who has candles these days?), and maybe continue to telework and live normally until power is shut off. So how do you get people to turn off their TV so people a few neighborhoods down don't get cut off from power? (COVID and the response to wearing masks makes me think this is pretty much impossible)

And that also ignores improvements to infrastructure for protect against EMP or solar flares/CMEs. The Carrington event (1859) is an interesting example of what could happen to electronics with a major solar flare (in that event, it was mainly telegraph lines and equipment affected), and we had a near miss back in 2012. Basically, any long wire is an antenna, and strong magnetic fields (like from extreme solar flares) can induce large currents into anything connected to that wire, potentially damaging or destroying it.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/08/carrington-event-warning/

[BFM this]

North Texas is going to go down as a unique storm/natural disaster. Last night it was 6°F when my wife called and said that our power was out. Not a huge deal except for the fact that we had been running the pool pump at a higher speed to keep that system from freezing. It quickly froze, we will find out on Saturday when the temperature gets above freezing weather or not that entire system is fucked.  Likely.

Likewise, the master bath is against the exterior wall, and no hot water is running to those spigots.  The neighborhood I am in is not plumbed for natural gas, and apparently we are split among two different power grids. Luckily, my grid came back up after a few hours this morning, so we’ve been able to run the heat to try and save the plumbing. The other half of the neighborhood has been on a 10 minute cycle all day. Pretty sure all those houses will be a mort for plumbing when this is all said and done. 
Last but certainly not least, the neighborhood is all septic. Aerobic septic.  Sprinklers are frozen, so no showers and only limited flushing for the next few days.

If anyone has any stock tips for plumbing suppliers and contractors in North Texas, now is the time to buy.

I just started my commute home this morning, and I’m stuck on the West Coast. Fun times.

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

This article seems to say it’s far from being solely based on frozen wind turbines. Sounds like base load, solar/wind, and the grid itself are all failing massively.

Perhaps it’s a little of the old Enron runaround with companies diddling with the grid to garner profits. They used to cut power to CA just to juice rates and, well, that was like 20 years ago...everyone probably forgot about that by now.

I mean, who would think Wall St. would do people wrong?

Funds bought U.S. crude ahead of big freeze - John Kemp

No doubt not all wind turbines fault to be sure.

Natural gas, advanced nuclear power, localized renewable energy with on-tap fossil/nuke back ups and hydro where it makes sense. 

Coal should not be put out of business IMO but nationalized for a period of time as it is cheap, ours and abundant and is another source of liquified fuels with appropriate processing.  Another fuel reserve to give us freedom of maneuver if necessary.

[arg]

I bought my first generator, 5500 watts, years ago in FL to run an air compressor for a roofing nailer to put a new roof on my wife's rental house. It came in very handy when Ivan, and the next one, rolled through. Ran the basics, fridge, freezer, washer, stove, and water heater but not all at once. Funny thing is I have four generators now living in BFE New Mexico and in the eleven years we've lived here the power's never been off long enough to need to use one.

[Majestik Møøse]

3 hours ago, arg said:

I'll run my generator on used oil from KFC, when they smell the exhaust they will get hungry. Then I will sell them fried chicken which I'll conveniently have in my truck.  Oh wait, if they're driving an electric car they're probably vegan.

Nah, maybe they just like going faster than gasoline cars

[kaputt]

1 hour ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Nah, maybe they just like going faster than gasoline cars

But not farther!

[ClearedHot]

6 hours ago, arg said:

I bought my first generator, 5500 watts, years ago in FL to run an air compressor for a roofing nailer to put a new roof on my wife's rental house. It came in very handy when Ivan, and the next one, rolled through. Ran the basics, fridge, freezer, washer, stove, and water heater but not all at once. Funny thing is I have four generators now living in BFE New Mexico and in the eleven years we've lived here the power's never been off long enough to need to use one.

Brother you need a side business, it looks like the situation is so bad at Cannon the Wing/CC has authorized the folks in Chavez to get rooms downtown on the government dime.  We spent a lot on the infrastructure and it failed again (I think I know the who and why).  When I was there they were still talking about the last grid failure and how ACC neglected the base.  The main bar connecting offbase power to the Cannon grid failed, it was stamped 1949!  Eight years and $1.2 billion later and the grid has collapsed again.  CE got some splaining to do...

[Prozac]

12 hours ago, BFM this said:

North Texas is going to go down as a unique storm/natural disaster. Last night it was 6°F when my wife called and said that our power was out. Not a huge deal except for the fact that we had been running the pool pump at a higher speed to keep that system from freezing. It quickly froze, we will find out on Saturday when the temperature gets above freezing weather or not that entire system is fucked.  Likely.

Likewise, the master bath is against the exterior wall, and no hot water is running to those spigots.  The neighborhood I am in is not plumbed for natural gas, and apparently we are split among two different power grids. Luckily, my grid came back up after a few hours this morning, so we’ve been able to run the heat to try and save the plumbing. The other half of the neighborhood has been on a 10 minute cycle all day. Pretty sure all those houses will be a mort for plumbing when this is all said and done. 
Last but certainly not least, the neighborhood is all septic. Aerobic septic.  Sprinklers are frozen, so no showers and only limited flushing for the next few days.

If anyone has any stock tips for plumbing suppliers and contractors in North Texas, now is the time to buy.

I just started my commute home this morning, and I’m stuck on the West Coast. Fun times.

Sounds like a nightmare. Hope your damage is limited. Regardless, if your wife is anything like mine, you’re going to be hearing about how things only go wrong when you’re on the road for a long, LONG time! 🤣

[ecugringo]

Wind/Solar is really only viable due to subsidies and tax breaks given to power companies.  Major energy companies would probably never go at Wind or Solar to produce energy to sell on the grid without incentives.  Also, many of these turbines aren't designed very well.  The lifespan is much shorter than advertised.  In windy areas such as KS, WY, CO, West TX, they load is pretty high and there are structural issues.  Also, when they reach retirement they will sit in a fill for 1mm  years.

There are oceans of natural gas under the US.  Its cheap, cleaner and easy to produce. If they want to go that route they need more cogen plants built across the US.  Arizona uses these plants to offset the Nuke plant during peak usage in the summer.  

The CA grid is pretty maxed out.  Moving away from NG and Nuke plants will only strain the grid more and make energy more expensive for the user.

Coal is still a huge industry in the US and we are actually an exporter of coal.  Most of the world doesn't have the ability to buy expensive green energy, (its not free) they will be dependent on a cheap source of power for the foreseeable future. India, Sub Sahara, Africa, S. America, Asia. 

[GrndPndr]

12 hours ago, arg said:

I bought my first generator, 5500 watts, years ago in FL to run an air compressor for a roofing nailer to put a new roof on my wife's rental house. It came in very handy when Ivan, and the next one, rolled through. Ran the basics, fridge, freezer, washer, stove, and water heater but not all at once. Funny thing is I have four generators now living in BFE New Mexico and in the eleven years we've lived here the power's never been off long enough to need to use one.

Yeah, I haven't owned a generator for a while, but thinking about getting back to that.  We've been in a new (used) house for two years now, and suffered power failures seven times so far.  The electric company (Dominion) has all of their "outside plant" aerial, instead of buried - so when trees go down, so do the wires. 

Actually, I figure if I buy one, I will never need it.  Stuff works that way doesn't it?

[arg]

Thought I was going to have to eat my words this morning. Power went out for about an hour. Got a generator in the back of my buggy ready to roll up to the house.

[mightymighty]

Elaborating off @jazzdude Seems like a pretty simple/easy fix for those wind turbines

Have the turbines generate their own power for an internal block heater within the engine nodes and then run de-icing boots along the leading edge of the blades like on a turboprop airplane.

Disclosure: not an engineer

Edited February 16, 2021 by mightymighty
read Jazzdudes post

[Pooter]

32 minutes ago, mightymighty said:

Elaborating off @jazzdude Seems like a pretty simple/easy fix for those wind turbines

Have the turbines generate their own power for an internal block heater within the engine nodes and then run de-icing boots along the leading edge of the blades like on a turboprop airplane.

Disclosure: not an engineer

Yeah but the question is how much internal resistance and manufacturing complexity the power company is willing to take on to mitigate a once in a decade storm. My bet is not much.  They'll apologize and give a few superficial refunds and the same shit will happen 10 years from now. 
 

The key with renewables is the energy storage technologies need to be seriously improved. This will help not only catastrophic snowstorm recovery, but also routine power demand at peak hours if it happens to not be all that sunny or windy. 

[kaputt]

4 hours ago, ecugringo said:

Also, when they reach retirement they will sit in a fill for 1mm  years.

 

Or once they break they just leave them standing there. 
 

Banning Pass in California has more than a few broken down windmills just sitting out there doing nothing but looking ugly. 

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, ecugringo said:

Wind/Solar is really only viable due to subsidies and tax breaks given to power companies.  Major energy companies would probably never go at Wind or Solar to produce energy to sell on the grid without incentives.  Also, many of these turbines aren't designed very well.  The lifespan is much shorter than advertised.  In windy areas such as KS, WY, CO, West TX, they load is pretty high and there are structural issues.  Also, when they reach retirement they will sit in a fill for 1mm  years.

 

The costs seems stupid high for the ROI, at least when our base had a solar field installed a decade ago.  Based on the cost to install vs the numbers that were quoted for cost savings, it's going to take ~69 years to get our money back.  That doesn't even account for mx and panel replacements, which will need to happen well before the 69 year point.  

To your point about subsidies.  I bought a plane from a guy in the solar industry and over some campfire beers, he pretty much backed up what you say.  I'm guessing that's the reason his business was built around repairing/maintaining solar fields, not building/owning them.  It's also why he's about to sell out in his mid-30s, so he can just raise his family and fly his planes.  A decent option for solar is to own the land the solar field sits on...