YOU are the problem

[BashiChuni]

Our King has spoken:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/04/fauci-troops-who-opt-out-of-covid-vaccine-are-part-of-the-problem.html

[Standby]

“You’ve got to think of your own health, which is really very important, but you got to think about your societal obligation, including people close to you personally as well as other members of families of other individuals,” Fauci said.

You’re coming in broken and stupid, say again. 

[BashiChuni]

pretty amazing quote..."IN ALL THE HISTORY OF RESPIRATORY BORNE VIRUSES OF ANY TYPE...THE DRIVER OF OUTBREAKS IS ALWAYS A SYMPTOMATIC PERSON."

 

so this "expert" who has studied this stuff his whole career gets up and makes such a firm claim...then why the need to keep healthy people quarantined/locked down? and why did his view points on how historically respiratory viruses spread change within ONE YEAR when this was his professionally stated opinion for years?

it's amazing no one calls this guy on his BS he's been wrong about everything to the detriment of our society and freedom.

Edited March 6, 2021 by BashiChuni

[tac airlifter]

He’s full of shit.

[Royal]

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask.” -Anthony Fauci

[Smokin]

If COVID is so deadly, shouldn't we be giving the vaccine to people that will actually die if they get the virus instead of a group of people that are all generally health and generally cannot have co-morbidity issues?  It seems to me that it is extremely irresponsible, to the point of being borderline criminal, to give the vaccine to the military before the general population.

[Lawman]

If COVID is so deadly, shouldn't we be giving the vaccine to people that will actually die if they get the virus instead of a group of people that are all generally health and generally cannot have co-morbidity issues?  It seems to me that it is extremely irresponsible, to the point of being borderline criminal, to give the vaccine to the military before the general population.

I’d argue the entire reason commanders want their troops vaccinated has nothing to due with actual risk to force and everything to do with the pain in the ass that is all the COVID mitigation’s and hurdles put in front of training and deployments.

Likewise I’d say we could do far more good vaccinating dependents vs non deployed garrison forces.


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[pawnman]

10 hours ago, Lawman said:

I’d argue the entire reason commanders want their troops vaccinated has nothing to due with actual risk to force and everything to do with the pain in the ass that is all the COVID mitigation’s and hurdles put in front of training and deployments.

Likewise I’d say we could do far more good vaccinating dependents vs non deployed garrison forces.


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Probably right, but then you also have the CDC telling people they need to keep wearing masks and social distancing even if they've had the vaccine.

I still plan on getting one... but they certainly aren't offering a lot of incentives to people on the fence by saying nothing will change if you get vaccinated. 

[Smokin]

Plus the guidance that you'll still be expected to quarantine if you are exposed even after the vaccine.  And they're still quarantining troops prior to deployments, even with 100% vaccination AND the virus already established at the destination.  Tough to think of a better example of the brass doing something that actively hurts the military members and the mission simply so they can say 'look! we're doing something'.

[Scooter14]

Plus the guidance that you'll still be expected to quarantine if you are exposed even after the vaccine.  And they're still quarantining troops prior to deployments, even with 100% vaccination AND the virus already established at the destination.  Tough to think of a better example of the brass doing something that actively hurts the military members and the mission simply so they can say 'look! we're doing something'.

Some of that is host nation but yeah. I had both vaccines and nobody cared due to host nation restrictions.

I’m deploying this fall and I definitely do not want to have another 14 day ROM. If we (the DoD) have control of it then we need to update and ease the restrictions IRT ROM.

That will incentivize more troops than some silly AFN “do your part” commercial.

[Lawman]

Some of that is host nation but yeah. I had both vaccines and nobody cared due to host nation restrictions.

I’m deploying this fall and I definitely do not want to have another 14 day ROM. If we (the DoD) have control of it then we need to update and ease the restrictions IRT ROM.

That will incentivize more troops than some silly AFN “do your part” commercial.

See this is what I’m talking about with command level hassle, I’m already seeing reversals and levels of risk acceptance changing for quarantined troops.

Like we have an upcoming exercise and since everybody is conus coming together in this some groups are requiring X while other personnel are doing Y. We’ve got a wide disparity of who needs a finger prick, who needs their brain scrubbed, and oh if your double vaccine with no symptoms we will just ignore anything all together. Commanders are feeling emboldened and approving policy based of a set of completely arbitrary made up standards which is a nice change from everybody afraid to make any decision under the SECDEF level because of Croizer’s “public execution.”


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[Tank]

I am presently on a 80 day deployment where I am having to travel around the AOR and am staying in three different countries.  

It doesn’t matter if you’ve got the COVID vaccine or not and everyplace is different with their quarantine restrictions.  

For my 80 days gone, I’ll be quarantined for a total of 31 days and that is all because of the host nation restrictions (10 days in the first, 14 days in the second, 7 days in the third).  Yes, you read that correctly; almost 40% of my deployment will be in quarantine...

Edited March 6, 2021 by Tank

[SurelySerious]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

I am presently on a 80 day deployment where I am having to travel around the AOR and am staying in three different countries.  

It doesn’t matter if you’ve got the COVID vaccine or not and everyplace is different with their quarantine restrictions.  

For my 80 days gone, I’ll be quarantined for a total of 31 days and that is all because of the host nation restrictions (10 days in the first, 14 days in the second, 7 days in the third).  Yes, you read that correctly; almost 40% of my deployment will be in quarantine...

I’m surprised we didn’t reach this level of bureaucratic efficiency years ago. 

[pbar]

The damage "experts" like Fauci have done to the credibility of the government in general and expert opinion is vast and will be a wickedly hard problem to correct.  

 

[Smokin]

I never thought I'd say the Army is doing something better than the AF, but my Army friends are quarantining in their house before and after the deployment.  Why the AF thinks its a good idea to put 18 year old airmen in solitary confinement for two weeks is beyond me.

[Lawman]

I never thought I'd say the Army is doing something better than the AF, but my Army friends are quarantining in their house before and after the deployment.  Why the AF thinks its a good idea to put 18 year old airmen in solitary confinement for two weeks is beyond me.

Oh don’t worry, we are still F’ing with soldiers at unprecedented levels.

For instance “quarantine” in a literal warehouse during movement to theatre with no food/showers/etc for 36 hours waiting on the C-17... the crew was in the hotel at Rammstein. Hooray we prevented COVID or something.


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[Pooter]

I think we're conflating two things here. Whether or not you should get the vaccine, and the Air Force's dumpster fire policies relating to covid are two completely separate issues. 
 

Anyone who has been in the Air Force for more than a day should have been able to predict that they'd enact idiotic policies, and commanders would revert to extreme risk aversion. But none of that should play into your decision of whether or not to get the vaccine. Getting the vaccine should be based on your personal health and that is it. Big Air Force nonsense shouldn't play into that decision and neither should politics. 
 

But what I'm seeing in the 1/3rd of service members turning down the vaccine are a bunch of political blowhards refusing it out of spite. It's a selfish act of political defiance, a middle finger at big blue and the libtard lockdown people, with not a second thought given to their actual health.
And that is a problem.

[Guardian]

That’s a big assumption of peoples motivations. Big. Do you think there could be other reasons people have? Or are you 100% right?

[Tank]

23 minutes ago, Pooter said:

I think we're conflating two things here. Whether or not you should get the vaccine, and the Air Force's dumpster fire policies relating to covid are two completely separate issues. 
 

Anyone who has been in the Air Force for more than a day should have been able to predict that they'd enact idiotic policies, and commanders would revert to extreme risk aversion. But none of that should play into your decision of whether or not to get the vaccine. Getting the vaccine should be based on your personal health and that is it. Big Air Force nonsense shouldn't play into that decision and neither should politics. 
 

But what I'm seeing in the 1/3rd of service members turning down the vaccine are a bunch of political blowhards refusing it out of spite. It's a selfish act of political defiance, a middle finger at big blue and the libtard lockdown people, with not a second thought given to their actual health.
And that is a problem.

I’m not a political blowhard refusing it out of spite.  
I just don’t want to put something in my body until it’s FDA approved and been clinically proven.  

I have seen friends and family of mine who were perfectly healthy have side effects from the vaccine (one is a professional mountain biker and she has had equilibrium problems and “brain fog” since the injection over one month ago). 
So why would I inject myself with something that could cause me problems?

[raimius]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

I think we're conflating two things here. Whether or not you should get the vaccine, and the Air Force's dumpster fire policies relating to covid are two completely separate issues. 
 

Anyone who has been in the Air Force for more than a day should have been able to predict that they'd enact idiotic policies, and commanders would revert to extreme risk aversion. But none of that should play into your decision of whether or not to get the vaccine. Getting the vaccine should be based on your personal health and that is it. Big Air Force nonsense shouldn't play into that decision and neither should politics. 
 

But what I'm seeing in the 1/3rd of service members turning down the vaccine are a bunch of political blowhards refusing it out of spite. It's a selfish act of political defiance, a middle finger at big blue and the libtard lockdown people, with not a second thought given to their actual health.
And that is a problem.

The long term side effects of the vaccine (if any) are still unknown.  The COVID risk to a 18-42yr old person in good health is fairly low.  Given that the .gov will probably deny coverage for any longer term issues ("hey, you volunteered for a non-FDA approved treatment, that's on you"), is the hesitation that unfounded?

[Pooter]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

I’m not a political blowhard refusing it out of spite.  
I just don’t want to put something in my body until it’s FDA approved and been clinically proven.  

I have seen friends and family of mine who were perfectly healthy have side effects from the vaccine (one is a professional mountain biker and she has had equilibrium problems and “brain fog” since the injection over one month ago). 
So why would I inject myself with something that could cause me problems?

Because not getting the vaccine could cause you much bigger problems...  I'm sorry your friend got brain fog from the vaccine. That's a new one I haven't heard about. But I would urge you to weigh the risks of the two options:

Option one: give yourself ~95% protection from the virus and risk hypothetical long term side effects and the occasional case of brain fog. 
 

Option two: risk it with a virus that's killed half a million people in a year. Oh and we also don't know what covid's long term effects might be either. 

And If we're doing brain fog anecdotes, I'll chime in with my anecdotal evidence too: every single person that I know who has gotten the vaccine felt slightly off for one day, had arm soreness for a few days, and then went about their life. 

[Pooter]

10 hours ago, Guardian said:

That’s a big assumption of peoples motivations. Big. Do you think there could be other reasons people have? Or are you 100% right?

Of course there are other reasons.  Medical conditions precluding you from getting vaccinated are basically the only reasons that hold water in my opinion. 
 

But based on this thread the only other motivations people have for rejecting it seem to be:

-spite

-generalized institutional mistrust

-F U don't tell me what to do

 

Here's my point. In my organization it was unbelievably easy to predict which people would refuse the vaccine. If it had been a Vegas bet I would have made a shitload of money. So why is that? Do I just have an amazing spidey sense of exactly where everyone stands on issues of personal health?

Or maybe is it because vaccine refusal is inextricably linked to a particular political ideology, and it's super easy to spot the far right political loud mouth complainers in the squadron..

Edited March 8, 2021 by Pooter

[bfargin]

it's easy to spot the blowhards on the left too.

[Guardian]

95% protection against a virus that is more than 99% survivable. And likely even more survivable than the known number suggest because we aren’t likely to ever know how many people have had it. Or actually died from it.

None of those three motivations apply to the people who responded to you today. What do you think about that?

[Pooter]

5 minutes ago, Guardian said:

95% protection against a virus that is more than 99% survivable. And likely even more survivable than the known number suggest because we aren’t likely to ever know how many people have had it. Or actually died from it.

None of those three motivations apply to the people who responded to you today. What do you think about that?

Right. So since I'm sure you are aware how percentages work, that reduces your chance of death from less than 1 in 100 to less than 5 in 10000. Seems like a pretty good deal to me for a mild headache and a few days of arm soreness. But hey maybe 1/100 chance of death is good enough for you. Not the response I was expecting. I guess you got me. 
 

So add a fourth one to the list, just sheer carelessness or apathy. Do you also not lock your doors at night, wear a seatbelt, or do other basic things to minimize low likelihood/high impact risk items in your life?