Captain passed over for Major, looking for advice.

[droptime]

MPF at my duty location won't pick up any of their phones. MPF here at my TDY location basically said I'm not their problem. So I'm just looking for general guidance/advice as I rethink my life plans.

I got the call from my CC yesterday saying I won't be making Major. I didn't get a DUI or harass anyone or get any other type of paperwork. Just didn't make the cut. it happens. Any input on the following questions would be greatly appreciated:

1. Is there any point in requesting a records review? 

2. If passed over twice, will I still have to fulfill my ADSC or will my Date of Separation be set to 6 months after the second board passes on me?

3. Will I be eligible for Involuntary Separation Pay if passed over twice, and having not finished my ADSC?

4. If I decline continuation (if offered), will I still receive ISP?

5. If I accept continuation, will I still receive ISP when I eventually separate?

6. Can I Palace Chase now, passed over once? Can I PC immediately after being passed over twice?

7. Does anyone know if the next board with go back to being held in Dec? I'm trying to figure out if PRFs will be due in July again, giving me 3 more months to polish up mine.

8. Will airlines care that I was passed over for Major? Again, no derogatory items in my file.

 

I know these are mostly questions for someone in MPS, but I'm getting nothing from them and I've seen the wealth of knowledge that resides in this forum so I thought I throw this post out there.

Thanks for reading and have a great weekend!

[jazzdude]

Sorry to hear that, unfortunately have been in your shoes. Here's my hack at your questions.

2. Being passed over twice sets a mandatory separation date, and overrides any ADSC. Be careful on the GI Bill transfer though, if you don't fulfill the ADSC, the transfer gets voided. If you accept continuation, any ADSCs sticks (at least through the end of the continuation period).
3. I believe so, but worth confirming
4. Declining continuation shouldn't have an effect.
5. Accepting continuation removes the involuntary separation, so you won't get the ISP later unless it's through a RIF or other force shaping measure.

Also, make an appointment with the AFPC promotion non-select counselor. They'll do a records review and give you feedback on your record. Shouldn't be any surprises though (they'll talk about awards, strats, etc), and compare your records with those just above and below the promotion cut line.

You'll have a big choice to make. If you stay in, APZ chances historically haven't been high, especially after the second board. But if you're happy to just fly the line as a Capt on AD, then good for you. There's always the guard/reserves, or you can make a clean break and go do something else. Best of luck to you in your decision.

[droptime]

16 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

You'll have a big choice to make. If you stay in, APZ chances historically haven't been high, 

Yeah and I'll not have much to add to my next PRF (in 3 months?) that the board didn't already see last time. I've been TDY in AETC going on month 7. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[Snuggie]

I was in the same boat, though I was picked up on my second look. 

6. From what I've been told PC after being passed over twice isn't impossible, though it takes some extra paperwork. As long as the unit you want to join see it as you getting screwed over by AD and not being a bad bro they will be able to hire you. I was prepared to go down that road but then I was picked up the 2nd look and dropped it. 

Good luck, it was a massive gut punch for me to be considered bottom 7% of my year group when I did what the AF asked of me. But it made my stay/go decision easier as I knew what big AF thought about my chance to make O-5 and I didn't need to roll the dice. 

[jazzdude]

Yeah and I'll not have much to add to my next PRF (in 3 months?) that the board didn't already see last time. I've been TDY in AETC going on month 7. 
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Yeah, I was in a similar boat-passed over, and then had a only a few months until the next PRF was due. Fortunately got picked up on the second look (Wg/CC have me a DP, no other real change to my record, not enough time to really do another OPR).

I elected to stay in, and meeting the O-5 board this year, so we'll see how that goes.

Luck and timing...

[Prosuper]

Have a friend who got passed over for Major, separated, joined the Guard, got promoted to Major, flies for an airline. Got married, now has two kids. I say it worked out for him. 

[droptime]

2 hours ago, Snuggie said:

6. From what I've been told PC after being passed over twice isn't impossible, though it takes some extra paperwork. As long as the unit you want to join see it as you getting screwed over by AD and not being a bad bro they will be able to hire you. I was prepared to go down that road but then I was picked up the 2nd look and dropped it. 

Good luck, it was a massive gut punch for me to be considered bottom 7% of my year group when I did what the AF asked of me. But it made my stay/go decision easier as I knew what big AF thought about my chance to make O-5 and I didn't need to roll the dice. 

If I'm passed over again (likely, since I'm sure the same PRF won't do any better on the second round) I think I'll pursue Palace Chase while waiting to hopefully get hired by the airlines. Then do reserves/airlines from there on out. 

Yeah it's definitely a bad feeling getting passed over,  but I feel fortunate that I have over a year to come up with a plan. Many people don't have that luxury! 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[droptime]

2 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Have a friend who got passed over for Major, separated, joined the Guard, got promoted to Major, flies for an airline. Got married, now has two kids. I say it worked out for him. 

This is my new plan if I'm passed over again!

[Rogue]

Nice to know there are others out there in the same exact boat as me. Sorry about the crap news. I just found out I am getting passed over as well.

[Bigred]

I picked up both 0-4 and O-5 APZ, so there is definitely a chance to still get selected. 
 

That said, both times I had outside opportunities lined up in the event I had gotten passed over twice. 
 

There’s always a chance to keep going but make sure you have a plan B.

[brabus]

Start rushing guard/reserve units and get a job lined up/get your apps in. Don’t wait until you receive a no on the 2nd board. Can you decline an APZ promotion and separate when you still have ADSCs?

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

Start rushing guard/reserve units and get a job lined up/get your apps in. Don’t wait until you receive a no on the 2nd board. Can you decline an APZ promotion and separate when you still have ADSCs?

I believe you can send a letter to the board requesting not to be promoted so you can seperate. Isn't Duck an expert on that? Someone on here I know did it about a year or two ago. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by FLEA

[jazzdude]

I believe you can send a letter to the board requesting not to be promoted so you can seperate. Isn't Duck an expert on that? Someone on here I know did it about a year or two ago. 

You can do that, but there are consequences...

AFI 36-2501
2.10.3.2. An officer who causes his/her non-selection through communication to a selection board is not entitled to involuntary separation pay.

[CaptainMorgan]

Declining continuation also results in no involuntary sep pay, because it’s a voluntary separation. You only get isp if you’re not offered continuation, if your RIFed, or half ISP for a fitness discharge (there might be other conditions as well).

[Sprkt69]

3 hours ago, jazzdude said:

You can do that, but there are consequences...

AFI 36-2501
2.10.3.2. An officer who causes his/her non-selection through communication to a selection board is not entitled to involuntary separation pay.

Small price for freedom

[droptime]

16 hours ago, Rogue said:

Nice to know there are others out there in the same exact boat as me. Sorry about the crap news. I just found out I am getting passed over as well.

I'm curious to find out how many of us there are. Guess we'll see in a few days! What are your plans?

[Bergman]

Well shit, thought I heard something about a pilot shortage.  Guess not!

 

Sorry to hear about the board results.  Start lining up Guard/Reserve visits and make it happen.  IMHO most units are far more concerned with “good pilot, good dude” than whatever AD block checking BS is the flavor of the day.

[droptime]

6 hours ago, brabus said:

Start rushing guard/reserve units and get a job lined up/get your apps in. Don’t wait until you receive a no on the 2nd board. Can you decline an APZ promotion and separate when you still have ADSCs?

Looks like I'll have 6 months after the next board results before I'm kicked to the curb or offered continuation. At this point I'd rather not get promoted, just to have some certainty on how to proceed. But I don't know how declining promotion would affect future guard/reserve prospects. Probably doesn't look good

[droptime]

3 minutes ago, Bergman said:

Well shit, thought I heard something about a pilot shortage.  Guess not!

 

Sorry to hear about the board results.  Start lining up Guard/Reserve visits and make it happen.  IMHO most units are far more concerned with “good pilot, good dude” than whatever AD block checking BS is the flavor of the day.

Thanks. I'm in the middle of PIT so I'm hoping it won't be too hard to switch over to the reserves at my UPT base. 

[HeloDude]

I’m obviously unsat for low SA and GK in this arena as I thought it was still “100% promotion opportunity” (or whatever) to Major?  When did this change?  

[pawnman]

12 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

I’m obviously unsat for low SA and GK in this arena as I thought it was still “100% promotion opportunity” (or whatever) to Major?  When did this change?  

Probably when covid made us overmanned.

 

[HeloDude]

5 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Probably when covid made us overmanned.

 

Ok...but I have yet to see anything official with the change from 2017/2018, have you?  Quick internet search w/in the last year didn’t show anything as well.

[droptime]

2 hours ago, HeloDude said:

I’m obviously unsat for low SA and GK in this arena as I thought it was still “100% promotion opportunity” (or whatever) to Major?  When did this change?  

Yeah it was news to me. I don't know when it changed from 100%

[viper154]

5 hours ago, droptime said:

Looks like I'll have 6 months after the next board results before I'm kicked to the curb or offered continuation. At this point I'd rather not get promoted, just to have some certainty on how to proceed. But I don't know how declining promotion would affect future guard/reserve prospects. Probably doesn't look good

I know guy that passed over last year, submitted a palace chase app, got hired by a guard unit, and was out of AD pretty quickly. 

[droptime]

15 minutes ago, viper154 said:

I know guy that passed over last year, submitted a palace chase app, got hired by a guard unit, and was out of AD pretty quickly. 

Was that after being passed over twice? Or was he granted PC after the first pass?