Captain passed over for Major, looking for advice.

[the g-man]

If I haven’t heard anything does that mean I’m a o-4 select?


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[mcbush]

  On 4/18/2021 at 2:13 AM, the g-man said:

If I haven’t heard anything does that mean I’m a o-4 select?

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Sucks that nobody’s told you yet, but you’ll find out for sure NLT Tuesday when the list gets publicly released.

Regarding “promotion opportunity,” not positive about this year’s number, but last year was 95% to O-4.

[viper154]

  On 4/18/2021 at 12:56 AM, droptime said:

Was that after being passed over twice? Or was he granted PC after the first pass?

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It was his first pass, I was actually surprised , he had a decent amount of time left on his commitment. 

[droptime]

  On 4/18/2021 at 3:27 AM, viper154 said:

It was his first pass, I was actually surprised , he had a decent amount of time left on his commitment. 

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It seems like the smart move all around. The AF would get 9 years out of me in the guard/reserves, which will end up being 11 years since I'll obviously continue to retirement at that point.

[brabus]

ISP will be peanuts compared to what those extra years of seniority, 401k, bonus, and massive boost in QOL will be worth. I bet the majority of ARC units will give zero fucks about being passed over; they’ll care if you’re a good dude and pilot. Remember, the ARC is full of dudes who got out of AD because of all the jackassery - they’re not going to side with AD on your non-promotion. 

[droptime]

  On 4/18/2021 at 12:35 PM, brabus said:

ISP will be peanuts compared to what those extra years of seniority, 401k, bonus, and massive boost in QOL will be worth. I bet the majority of ARC units will give zero s about being passed over; they’ll care if you’re a good dude and pilot. Remember, the ARC is full of dudes who got out of AD because of all the jackassery - they’re not going to side with AD on your non-promotion. 

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Totally agree. ISP would be nice, but not required. 

The current plan is to make my case to my CC and AFPC that letting me Palace Chase now gets roughly 11 more years out of me, still qualified and an IP in my previous MWS. The alternative is them keeping me until the next board and me getting out a year from now. At that point I'd probably just make a clean swap between 'officer first' and 'first officer'. 

[brabus]

That’s a good argument for your PC letter to SAF/PC - “this is why PC is good for the total force...” is what they want to see. Good luck man - this may all work out greatly in your favor, even though I can understand it feels shitty right now. Airlines are going to start hiring in the near future, so get the ball rolling now!

[guineapigfury]

  On 4/17/2021 at 7:08 PM, droptime said:

Looks like I'll have 6 months after the next board results before I'm kicked to the curb or offered continuation. At this point I'd rather not get promoted, just to have some certainty on how to proceed. But I don't know how declining promotion would affect future guard/reserve prospects. Probably doesn't look good

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When I was passed over for Major, I got my continuation offer letter from the CC the day after being notified.  When he told me the day before the official release of the list, he already knew I'd be offered continuation but the paper work lagged a bit.  YMMV.

[droptime]

  On 4/19/2021 at 12:39 PM, guineapigfury said:

When I was passed over for Major, I got my continuation offer letter from the CC the day after being notified.  When he told me the day before the official release of the list, he already knew I'd be offered continuation but the paper work lagged a bit.  YMMV.

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Was that after your 1st pass?

 

Just talked to MPF. Big question that the rep couldn't answer was:

If passed over twice, am I required to accept continuation since I still have 3 years left on my pilot ADSC, and 1 year left on 9/11 GI bill ADSC?

[pawnman]

  On 4/19/2021 at 3:19 PM, droptime said:

Was that after your 1st pass?

 

Just talked to MPF. Big question that the rep couldn't answer was:

If passed over twice, am I required to accept continuation since I still have 3 years left on my pilot ADSC, and 1 year left on 9/11 GI bill ADSC?

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You are not required to accept continuation.  Others on this board have used that fact after being passed over to get out of their pilot ADSCs.

The GI Bill one may be more tricky...they can't force you to take continuation, but they may take back your transfer and not allow your dependents to use it.

[CaptainMorgan]

Also, depending on when they roll out the new promotion system, you might be IPZ for four more looks.


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[jazzdude]

  On 4/19/2021 at 3:44 PM, pawnman said:

You are not required to accept continuation.  Others on this board have used that fact after being passed over to get out of their pilot ADSCs.
The GI Bill one may be more tricky...they can't force you to take continuation, but they may take back your transfer and not allow your dependents to use it.

Only thing to add is the service (AF) can drop the GI Bill transfer ADSC, but the VA *will* cancel the transfer benefit and retroactively recoup any payments if you don't complete the ADSC (people have been bit by being days short of completing the gi bill transfer commitment and hit with a massive bill).

[FLEA]

  On 4/19/2021 at 4:41 PM, jazzdude said:

  On 4/19/2021 at 3:44 PM, pawnman said:

You are not required to accept continuation.  Others on this board have used that fact after being passed over to get out of their pilot ADSCs.
The GI Bill one may be more tricky...they can't force you to take continuation, but they may take back your transfer and not allow your dependents to use it.

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Only thing to add is the service (AF) can drop the GI Bill transfer ADSC, but the VA *will* cancel the transfer benefit and retroactively recoup any payments if you don't complete the ADSC (people have been bit by being days short of completing the gi bill transfer commitment and hit with a massive bill).

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Can you bypass that by transferring to the guard/reserve and finishing out time there?

[jazzdude]

  On 4/19/2021 at 4:51 PM, FLEA said:

Can you bypass that by transferring to the guard/reserve and finishing out time there?

I'll be honest, I didn't pay close attention to that portion of the gi bill brief since I elected to take the bonus and stay on AD.

Here's a news article that describes the issue:
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/dozens-of-military-families-have-had-to-repay-va-for-gi-bill-benefits-1.646937
Basically, if you don't complete the additional 4 years (after the initial transfer approval date, not just serving or 10 years of service) required to transfer the benefit, VA may recoup benefits paid.

I know there's differences between AD and Reserve GI Bill administration, but not sure how a change in component affects your eligibility for either, or if/how service time transfers (specifically for GI Bill transfer to dependents purposes).

Definitely worth reaching out to a VA GI Bill counselor.

[guineapigfury]

  On 4/19/2021 at 3:19 PM, droptime said:

Was that after your 1st pass?

 

Just talked to MPF. Big question that the rep couldn't answer was:

If passed over twice, am I required to accept continuation since I still have 3 years left on my pilot ADSC, and 1 year left on 9/11 GI bill ADSC?

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Continuation will be offered or not offered following you getting passed over the second time.  When you hold that continuation letter, you are now in possession of a Get Out Of Jail Free card.  You are 100% free to decline continuation.  I had two+ years left on UPT ADSC and it wasn't a factor.  I also had some ADSC for transferring some of my GI Bill to my now exwife and that wasn't a factor either.  If someone is telling you that you are "required to accept continuation" they don't know what they are talking about.  Please see the two files below for what I got in 2016.

Continuation Fact Sheet.pdfFetching info...

Edited April 19, 2021 by guineapigfury
attachments

[droptime]

  On 4/19/2021 at 8:25 PM, guineapigfury said:

Continuation will be offered or not offered following you getting passed over the second time.  When you hold that continuation letter, you are now in possession of a Get Out Of Jail Free card.  You are 100% free to decline continuation.  I had two+ years left on UPT ADSC and it wasn't a factor.  I also had some ADSC for transferring some of my GI Bill to my now exwife and that wasn't a factor either.  If someone is telling you that you are "required to accept continuation" they don't know what they are talking about.  Please see the two files below for what I got in 2016.

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I appreciate the info. Looks like I won't owe anything on the GI Bill if I Palace Chase, but I'll have to confirm that with the VA. My only concern now is accidentally making Major on the next board. I've considered writing AFPC to decline promotion consideration, but I don't know how that would affect PC afterward. I'll wait to see what our in-service recruiter responds with.

[xaarman]

Congratulations, one more pass over and you get paroled early… just in time for the major boom in hiring. Timing is everything, availability is key and you hit the jackpot. 
 

The airlines are surprisingly full of passed over Captains (me) laughing all the way to the bank. 
 

Let me know if you have any questions on the process. It seems scary, but it’s truly the best thing to ever happen to you. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by xaarman

[Nodeskjobs]

  On 4/19/2021 at 8:25 PM, guineapigfury said:

Continuation will be offered or not offered following you getting passed over the second time.  When you hold that continuation letter, you are now in possession of a Get Out Of Jail Free card.  You are 100% free to decline continuation.  I had two+ years left on UPT ADSC and it wasn't a factor.  I also had some ADSC for transferring some of my GI Bill to my now exwife and that wasn't a factor either.  If someone is telling you that you are "required to accept continuation" they don't know what they are talking about.  Please see the two files below for what I got in 2016.

Continuation Fact Sheet.pdf 1.27 MB · 8 downloads

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Thanks for posting this for me to see. But it brings up some questions. My situation:  Prior-E, 21 years of military service, over 10 years commissioned, ADSC 30 Apr 2023
 

I signed the 3 year bonus last year, knowing I have a high probability of being passed over. My first board, met this March and expecting 2nd non select next March-May’ish. Assuming the AF doesn’t go to a 5 year eligibility window next year, would I be able to keep the bonus payment that pays next April?

since I’m already over 20, there is no “offering of continuation”, and would keep the payment since I’m not declining continuation. Does that passed the sanity check?

TIA

[ThreeHoler]

They took it from a friend of mine who was 10ish months short of his ADSC at 20. He probably could have kept it if he called the bonus office and explained it was non-voluntary separation.


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[Oldtanker]

“Assuming the AF doesn’t go to a 5 year eligibility window next year”

Did it go to a 5 year?

How does this change continuation that is in the AFI in order to comply with 10 USC 632?

Is the AF no longer offering continuation? You are just automatically still in? Or do promo boards just no longer see that you didn’t make it x2, that way you have a better chance the third time?

I’m a prior E Major at 20, about to get passed over for the second time. I assume they will offer me continuation, that I can decline (if desired) and be retired NLT the 1st day of the 7th month after the board released. This would break my PCS ADSC.

Sorry about the font size, my exec skills are weak.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

Continuation is offered after being non-selected above the zone. If the zone is expanded to encompass 5 years, you won’t be non-select above the zone until your 6th look. They have not implemented the 5 year zones yet, but there’s a good chance they will for 2022.


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[Oldtanker]

  On 5/4/2021 at 11:42 PM, Nodeskjobs said:

Thanks for posting this for me to see. But it brings up some questions. My situation:  Prior-E, 21 years of military service, over 10 years commissioned, ADSC 30 Apr 2023
 

I signed the 3 year bonus last year, knowing I have a high probability of being passed over. My first board, met this March and expecting 2nd non select next March-May’ish. Assuming the AF doesn’t go to a 5 year eligibility window next year, would I be able to keep the bonus payment that pays next April?

since I’m already over 20, there is no “offering of continuation”, and would keep the payment since I’m not declining continuation. Does that passed the sanity check?

TIA

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Can’t they offer you continuation to 24 yrs commissioned? That’s the High Year Tenure & since you are prior E, that could be a long time. I’m at 20 total (15Off + 5Enl) & I’m trying to figure out what they will offer. Probably 20 total, then I’ll say I’m already there, then I’ll wait 6 months for them to screw it up & offer me 20 again.

24 years commissioned would be another 9 years for me. No thanks.

Also, I’m pretty sure they are  going to recoup the unused portion of the bonus. Ex: get $30k on July 1, retire on Jan 1, half the year=recoup half the money.

 

[Nodeskjobs]

  On 5/14/2021 at 10:58 AM, Oldtanker said:

Can’t they offer you continuation to 24 yrs commissioned? That’s the High Year Tenure & since you are prior E, that could be a long time. I’m at 20 total (15Off + 5Enl) & I’m trying to figure out what they will offer. Probably 20 total, then I’ll say I’m already there, then I’ll wait 6 months for them to screw it up & offer me 20 again.

24 years commissioned would be another 9 years for me. No thanks.

Also, I’m pretty sure they are  going to recoup the unused portion of the bonus. Ex: get $30k on July 1, retire on Jan 1, half the year=recoup half the money.

 

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Yeah I believe you’re right. I haven’t looked in the regs in a bit. I wouldn’t accept continuation if offered. 

[Oldtanker]

  On 5/14/2021 at 11:12 AM, Nodeskjobs said:

Yeah I believe you’re right. I haven’t looked in the regs in a bit. I wouldn’t accept continuation if offered. 

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[BeefBears]

  On 5/14/2021 at 10:57 AM, CaptainMorgan said:

Continuation is offered after being non-selected above the zone. If the zone is expanded to encompass 5 years, you won’t be non-select above the zone until your 6th look. They have not implemented the 5 year zones yet, but there’s a good chance they will for 2022.


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I have a feeling that they will interpret the regulations to hold a continuation board at 2 years into the 5 year window. 

Otherwise, the vast majority of majors are in sanctuary at the 6th year look.  If this is the case, the major rank will become heavy and promotion rates to major will have to fall.

I also think AFPC has been intentionally quiet on the subject because they have no idea how to handle it.