Captain passed over for Major, looking for advice.

[Magellan]

5 hours ago, BeefBears said:

I have a feeling that they will interpret the regulations to hold a continuation board at 2 years into the 5 year window. 

Otherwise, the vast majority of majors are in sanctuary at the 6th year look.  If this is the case, the major rank will become heavy and promotion rates to major will have to fall.

I also think AFPC has been intentionally quiet on the subject because they have no idea how to handle it. 

I believe some would say that is a feature and not a glitch.  This way you can have the shiny penny Major's fill the staff and school slots, get promoted to Lt. Col, and be on their merry way to CSAF.

In the meantime how long will the USAF be able to string people along as Majors on AD with 5 shots at Lt. Col before the USAF exercises a forcing function?

[Inertia17]

21 hours ago, BeefBears said:

If this is the case, the major rank will become heavy and promotion rates to major will have to fall.

I think the retention issues might take care of that problem...

[Whisky]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, BeefBears said:

 

I also think AFPC has been intentionally quiet on the subject because they have no idea how to handle it. 

I actually think this a major reason they haven't implemented the 5 year window.  They don't know how to handle the continuation/ twice passed over piece.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Whisky

[jazzdude]

I actually think this a major reason they haven't implemented the 5 year window.  They don't know how to handle the continuation/ twice passed over piece.

It also messes up how they manage officers in general, which is by year groups. Including when people are eligible for different schools (not just PME, but also things like WIC, TPS, etc).

Although in theory, we used to have a 4ish year promotion zone for O-5+, just earlier in the timeline (2BPZ - 1APZ vs IPZ + 4 years), so maybe the problem isn't as hard to solve.

But you're also right, what do you do with a captain going in for their 3rd/4th/5th look to major? What's their career look like? Especially when the current yardstick for a "successful" career in AFPC's viewpoint is Lt Col by 20 years? Would those officer *want* to stay in anyways, versus taking outside employment opportunities?

[busdriver]

2 hours ago, jazzdude said:

the current yardstick for a "successful" career in AFPC's viewpoint is Lt Col by 20 years? 

Moving the pole year, the 5 year promotion window, etc are all geared towards slowing everything down, giving folks more time to live a different career path and generally stop making everyone play the game of trying to make it to the flag ranks.

However, there's a lot of "stuff" to figure out. whether that's policy, re-writing AFI or complying with law.  Time will tell how it plays out.  

[Oldtanker]

Any Prior E Majors out there from the 2004/2005 year groups? Or friends of?

 What did AFPC offer you when passed over for Lt Col x 2 & at 20 yes complete?

I’m trying to predict what type of continuation (or lack of) I’ll be offered soon. If it’s only 20 TAFMS (Total Active Fed Military Service) I’ll be retiring since I’m already there.

If it’s 20 or 24 commissioned, I’ll have a big decision to make.

[HU&W]

1 hour ago, Oldtanker said:

Any Prior E Majors out there from the 2004/2005 year groups? Or friends of?

 What did AFPC offer you when passed over for Lt Col x 2 & at 20 yes complete?

I’m trying to predict what type of continuation (or lack of) I’ll be offered soon. If it’s only 20 TAFMS (Total Active Fed Military Service) I’ll be retiring since I’m already there.

If it’s 20 or 24 commissioned, I’ll have a big decision to make.

20 Commissioned.  We just retired a passed over prior-e major out of my office with 29 TAFMS.

[Oldtanker]

22 minutes ago, HU&W said:

20 Commissioned.  We just retired a passed over prior-e major out of my office with 29 TAFMS.

Thanks! Good to know I might have the option to stay in.

 

[ThreeHoler]

Does anyone have a template for a memo to the board to not be considered for promotion?
Or--is a simple "Please do not consider me for promotion. Thanks." enough?
I'll take that "get out of jail free" card a year early, please.

That’s it. But be careful. I know people who have done it and later regretted it. YMMV.

[dream big]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:03 AM, RedEye1911 said:

Regretted it in what way?

Covid hit, and their job on the outside no longer existed..bit a few folks in the ass who did what you are suggesting.  

Just my opinion, I wouldn’t turn down promotion.  There are other avenues to still get out.  What does your commitment look like? 

[Chida]

If you want to get out clean, fine. If you want to join ARC, that’s fine too, but my advice is to not let it be known that you (likely) caused your own non-selection. Just say you twice failed of selection for promotion (if asked), and leave it at that. No one really “knows” what goes on at a promotion board (except for board members), so you can honestly say that you don’t know why you were passed over.

If you crow about (likely) causing your own non-selection, some individuals may have personal problems with that, such as “eff this guy for ‘gaming the system’. “

[dream big]

1 minute ago, RedEye1911 said:

My ADSC goes until late 2023. If the board releases next April, I would be out by Oct 2022, so that would be one year early.

I'm not worried about finding work on the outside, not that I even think that would be an issue. I am in an extremely secure place financially.

Why would I not want to turn down promotion? I have a near-zero chance of getting promoted above the zone and am not doing anything (beyond doing the job the taxpayers pay me to do) to increase those chances. There is no incentive for me to get promoted beyond to earn a few thousand more dollars from the Air Force in exchange for another year of my life. I'm fine with treating my pilot commitment like a 9 year instead of a 10 year.

What other avenues are there to get out that you are thinking of?

Understood! Ultimately you got to do what’s best for you and your family.

However with that little time till your ADSC expires I’d ride it out.  Airline hiring will continue for several years.  On the other hand,  multiple dudes were primed to get out pre COVID then got screwed when the job they expected wasn’t there.  Those that asked not to be promoted (APZ) were forced out.  Too much risk there. You could consider palace chase, if a guard unit really wants you then the paperwork on the other side works itself out (promotion waiver), of course big blue has to let you go.  Just some things to consider that’s all. 

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, Chida said:

If you crow about (likely) causing your own non-selection, some individuals may have personal problems with that, such as “eff this guy for ‘gaming the system’. “

 

Say what?  If there are enough of those people (in an ARC squadron) to make a difference, then I'd seriously question that units hiring practices.  I've only known of one person who wrote the board.  He subsequently got out and was promoted to Major within a year of joining the ARC...hired by two majors as well.  Personally, I'd give them the "men at work" golf clap for realizing they're in a shitty spot, making the decision to do something about it and actually making it happen.  

Edited July 15, 2021 by SocialD

[Danger41]

11 hours ago, RedEye1911 said:

 

 

I'm not worried about that at all. I'm fine with saying it publicly. OPRs and awards are two of the worst parts of the Air Force and it is criminal how many hours are wasted on them and how full of lies all of them are. I do not deserve to be a major in this Air Force and I do not want to be a major in this Air Force.

I’ve never seen someone who deserves to be an incredibly salty Major more than you.

Speaking of public disclosure, want to share why you feel that way?

[ThreeHoler]

Covid hit, and their job on the outside no longer existed..bit a few folks in the ass who did what you are suggesting.  
Just my opinion, I wouldn’t turn down promotion.  There are other avenues to still get out.  What does your commitment look like? 

One case I’m thinking of happened a few years ago (around the time of the first VSP). A Capt wrote the board two years in a row to get out early. After his 2nd non-selection, his spouse was diagnosed with a serious (expensive) disease. He petitioned the continuation board to stay in as a Capt to 20 for the medical coverage. Had he not written the board, he likely would have promoted.

Everyone has their reasons…but sometimes things change and you can’t prepare for how they change. I’m not saying don’t write…just be prepared for everything you can think of in the transition.

[QAZqaz]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:33 AM, BeefBears said:

I have a feeling that they will interpret the regulations to hold a continuation board at 2 years into the 5 year window. 

Otherwise, the vast majority of majors are in sanctuary at the 6th year look.  If this is the case, the major rank will become heavy and promotion rates to major will have to fall.

I also think AFPC has been intentionally quiet on the subject because they have no idea how to handle it. 

Can you point me in the direction to read about sanctuary WRT active duty? When I looked into this that term was only used for ANG and Reserve. I could not find anything about sanctuary in the AD. 

[hindsight2020]

3 hours ago, QAZqaz said:

Can you point me in the direction to read about sanctuary WRT active duty? When I looked into this that term was only used for ANG and Reserve. I could not find anything about sanctuary in the AD. 

There's none. It's strictly an ARC provision. 

Title 10 United States Code (USC), § 12686(a) and 12646(e) establish an active duty (AD) retirement sanctuary for members of all Air Reserve Components (ARCs).

 

[Chida]

We were talking about this 8 years ago. Bottom line: Yes, it is a thing for RegAF.

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/19851-sanctuary/?tab=comments#comment-354790

 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, Chida said:

We were talking about this 8 years ago. Bottom line: Yes, it is a thing for RegAF.

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/19851-sanctuary/?tab=comments#comment-354790

 

Indeed. Semantics are funny that way. In practice it's baked-in, as you highlight. 👍

[Nodeskjobs]

Will they release before the board if it will be the 5-year look or 2-year and if continuation would be offered or not?  If so, when would they release that info?  150 days prior, etc?  Also, is the next LAF O-5 board expected to be same time frame as FY21 board?

 

TIA

[illusive]

On 7/14/2021 at 6:22 PM, dream big said:

Covid hit, and their job on the outside no longer existed..bit a few folks in the ass who did what you are suggesting.  

Just my opinion, I wouldn’t turn down promotion.  There are other avenues to still get out.  What does your commitment look like? 

What are you referring to?  I was thinking about writing the board so I can leave a year or 2 early.  I am in the 2015 year group and if I decline promotion twice I was hoping I could get out 2 years earlier and potentially get hired.

[RedEye1911]

On 7/15/2021 at 6:57 AM, Danger41 said:

I’ve never seen someone who deserves to be an incredibly salty Major more than you.

Speaking of public disclosure, want to share why you feel that way?

An update:
My plan worked to perfection.

Separated with 120+ days of leave, took ~90 terminal, paid the rest.
Got hired by a legacy airline and started with ~60 days left on terminal. The airline asked zero questions about any Air Force promotion stuff.
Got the plane and domicile I wanted straight out of training. I'm already a line holder.

Holy crap the airline life quality of life is a million times better than the Air Force. Zero queep. Zero outside work work.
Zero mission planning. Zero paperwork. Brief and debrief? Maybe a total of five minutes combined per day of flying.

I am so glad I got passed over and wrote a letter for the second board. I was told I am a legend in my old squadron and tales are being told of how I played by their rules and won.

On 4/7/2022 at 6:46 PM, illusive said:

What are you referring to?  I was thinking about writing the board so I can leave a year or 2 early.  I am in the 2015 year group and if I decline promotion twice I was hoping I could get out 2 years earlier and potentially get hired.

Do it. The letter is due in November. It is completely different if you are selected for major and then decline. You must not get selected, and a letter is a good way to do that.

Here's something like the memo I wrote:

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD

FROM: Capt Cool Dude

SUBJECT: Non-Consideration For Promotion to Major

1. I do not wish to be considered for promotion to the rank of Major for board ABCDEFG123.

2. I fully understand the consequences described in AFI36-3207 and AFI36-2501 that will result from not being selected for promotion to Major a second time.

3. For questions regarding this memorandum, please feel free to contact my Executive Officers at DSN 123-4566 or lameGuys@us.af.mil.

														Signature block

Ping me if you have questions. Tell your friends and anyone else that wants out early.

I have zero regrets.

We could have a recession tomorrow and I could get furloughed. Zero regrets would still exist.

[illusive]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:16 PM, RedEye1911 said:

An update:
My plan worked to perfection.

Separated with 120+ days of leave, took ~90 terminal, paid the rest.
Got hired by a legacy airline and started with ~60 days left on terminal. The airline asked zero questions about any Air Force promotion stuff.
Got the plane and domicile I wanted straight out of training. I'm already a line holder.

Holy crap the airline life quality of life is a million times better than the Air Force. Zero queep. Zero outside work work.
Zero mission planning. Zero paperwork. Brief and debrief? Maybe a total of five minutes combined per day of flying.

I am so glad I got passed over and wrote a letter for the second board. I was told I am a legend in my old squadron and tales are being told of how I played by their rules and won.

Do it. The letter is due in November. It is completely different if you are selected for major and then decline. You must not get selected, and a letter is a good way to do that.

Here's something like the memo I wrote:

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD

FROM: Capt Cool Dude

SUBJECT: Non-Consideration For Promotion to Major

1. I do not wish to be considered for promotion to the rank of Major for board ABCDEFG123.

2. I fully understand the consequences described in AFI36-3207 and AFI36-2501 that will result from not being selected for promotion to Major a second time.

3. For questions regarding this memorandum, please feel free to contact my Executive Officers at DSN 123-4566 or lameGuys@us.af.mil.

														Signature block

Ping me if you have questions. Tell your friends and anyone else that wants out early.

I have zero regrets.

We could have a recession tomorrow and I could get furloughed. Zero regrets would still exist.

Congrats, glad it worked out so well for you

 

Any retribution for doing this from leadership?  Did they find out about the first letter since you need to be twice non selected?

 

Were they aware this was a rule or did you have to fight for it with AFPC?  My big fear is they would just ignore me.

 

[HeyEng]

On 7/26/2021 at 5:37 PM, Chida said:

We were talking about this 8 years ago. Bottom line: Yes, it is a thing for RegAF.

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/19851-sanctuary/?tab=comments#comment-354790

 

Yea from what I remember or was told years ago sanctuary was implemented so that the military could not RIF people at the 19 year mark and save money by screwing service members out of retirement once they got close to their retirement date. The law was probably written due to abuses by the government and later expanded to include ARC and other members. There is probably a similar law for civil service retirement. 

[RedEye1911]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:12 PM, illusive said:

Congrats, glad it worked out so well for you

 

Any retribution for doing this from leadership?  Did they find out about the first letter since you need to be twice non selected?

 

Were they aware this was a rule or did you have to fight for it with AFPC?  My big fear is they would just ignore me.

 

No retribution at all. My commander was completely on board and supported me the whole time. No one attempted to talk me into staying. Not one person said anything negative. A few people that got picked up for major in my group were mad they didn't do the same, especially when I separated a month or so after they pinned on.

My commander also told me that when he was at a meeting with the wing commander before the second board's results came out for those already passed over, a lot of other commanders were saying that their guys were going to off themselves if they didn't make it. My commander said to the group that "his guy" (me) was going to throw a f-ing party.

There is no fight with AFPC. It is a federal law. Twice passed over officers must be separated (if they do not elect to continue) within six months of notification of 2nd non-selection. No one in the Air Force has the power to stop that.

I highly recommend anyone thinking of getting out gets passed over twice and saves more than a year of their life.

Edited June 20, 2023 by RedEye1911