Captain passed over for Major, looking for advice.

[Smaggy]

Not sure if anyone is still looking at this thread but the same exact thing just happened to me. Using this previous post I was able to get a lot of really awesome information. My plan is to send a letter to the board asking to “not-promote” then leave the military. A question for all you who have done it:

Does the member get to decide how much of those 6 months before separation you get to have? Or does MPF give you a DOS within 6 months?
 

Is Palace front a viable option as you are given a DOS? *Disclaimer I’m a late-2-rate pilot that got passed over for major the first board and still has 7 years on my ADSC.

[guineapigfury]

My experience is almost 8 years ago, but I was able to set a separation date one month from when I declined continuation after getting passed over twice.  Declining continuation counts as an involuntary separation.  This fact matters to you because instead of your approval authority for separation being the SECAF it's now some random SSgt at AFPC.  Once the right people are working your case they can get it approved in about an hour.  If your case gets hung up, call your congressperson, your chain will not be able to make AFPC do their job in a timely fashion.  Help yourself out and have TAP & the separation physical done before you get the results the second time.

[Smaggy]

Did you get to choose that 1 month after results came out. Or did AFPC give you a date?

10 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

My experience is almost 8 years ago, but I was able to set a separation date one month from when I declined continuation after getting passed over twice.  Declining continuation counts as an involuntary separation.  This fact matters to you because instead of your approval authority for separation being the SECAF it's now some random SSgt at AFPC.  Once the right people are working your case they can get it approved in about an hour.  If your case gets hung up, call your congressperson, your chain will not be able to make AFPC do their job in a timely fashion.  Help yourself out and have TAP & the separation physical done before you get the results the second time.

 

[brabus]

To be honest, every time this thread pops up to the top and I see the title, I immediately think, “lucky bastard!”

[guineapigfury]

5 hours ago, Smaggy said:

Did you get to choose that 1 month after results came out. Or did AFPC give you a date?

 

I gave them the date.  I asked how fast I could separate and they (MPF/FSS) said the fastest possible timeline was one month.  I already had TAP & the separation physical complete.  Almost all of that month was spent on waiting for AFPC to do AFPC things.  Once my separation was approved, I was able to complete about 85% of the virtual out-processing checklist in about 1.5 workdays and that was without hurrying.  The rest was stuff that didn't pop up on people's computer's until closer to the deadline.

[Polar Bear]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:16 PM, RedEye1911 said:

An update:
My plan worked to perfection.

Separated with 120+ days of leave, took ~90 terminal, paid the rest.
Got hired by a legacy airline and started with ~60 days left on terminal. The airline asked zero questions about any Air Force promotion stuff.
Got the plane and domicile I wanted straight out of training. I'm already a line holder.

Holy crap the airline life quality of life is a million times better than the Air Force. Zero queep. Zero outside work work.
Zero mission planning. Zero paperwork. Brief and debrief? Maybe a total of five minutes combined per day of flying.

I am so glad I got passed over and wrote a letter for the second board. I was told I am a legend in my old squadron and tales are being told of how I played by their rules and won.

Do it. The letter is due in November. It is completely different if you are selected for major and then decline. You must not get selected, and a letter is a good way to do that.

Here's something like the memo I wrote:

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD

FROM: Capt Cool Dude

SUBJECT: Non-Consideration For Promotion to Major

1. I do not wish to be considered for promotion to the rank of Major for board ABCDEFG123.

2. I fully understand the consequences described in AFI36-3207 and AFI36-2501 that will result from not being selected for promotion to Major a second time.

3. For questions regarding this memorandum, please feel free to contact my Executive Officers at DSN 123-4566 or lameGuys@us.af.mil.

														Signature block

Ping me if you have questions. Tell your friends and anyone else that wants out early.

I have zero regrets.

We could have a recession tomorrow and I could get furloughed. Zero regrets would still exist.

Did you continue in the guard/reserves? 

[justlooking]

19 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

My experience is almost 8 years ago, but I was able to set a separation date one month from when I declined continuation after getting passed over twice.  Declining continuation counts as an involuntary separation.  This fact matters to you because instead of your approval authority for separation being the SECAF it's now some random SSgt at AFPC.  Once the right people are working your case they can get it approved in about an hour.  If your case gets hung up, call your congressperson, your chain will not be able to make AFPC do their job in a timely fashion.  Help yourself out and have TAP & the separation physical done before you get the results the second time.

But if you decline continuation then you don't receive separation pay?

 

Also do they even allow you to start TAP + separation physical if you don't have 2nd passed over results with a separation date yet? 

[KWings06j]

5 hours ago, justlooking said:

But if you decline continuation then you don't receive separation pay?

 

Also do they even allow you to start TAP + separation physical if you don't have 2nd passed over results with a separation date yet? 

You can do TAP anytime you want. You can even complete most of it virtually if you want to. No separation date required. 

[SurelySerious]

TAP is also valid for a certain amount of time (used to be 2-3 years iirc), so if you anticipate separating get it done.

[Smaggy]

Has anyone ever heard of an instance where an officer writes a letter to the board to be non-selected for promotion, and still gets promoted?

[dream big]

On 7/3/2024 at 3:05 AM, Smaggy said:

Has anyone ever heard of an instance where an officer writes a letter to the board to be non-selected for promotion, and still gets promoted?

A few, I also know of a sitting OG/CC that asked not to be promoted to 0-6. Air Force will do what Air Force wants she does not give a F about you. Try it if you want out, worse that happens is that they don’t consider it. 

[Smaggy]

Thanks for the info

[Shadow2]

I’m in the same boat…just got passed over on the CY23E LAF-A board. I have a hire letter from a guard unit but my functional is saying he can’t release me because we are short manned. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only way for AD to keep me is to promote me. So the functional doesn’t have much say in releasing me because I can punch if passed over 2x? Also, does anyone have a letter to the board requesting not to promote that I could reference? 
 

thanks!

[Smaggy]

7 minutes ago, Shadow2 said:

I’m in the same boat…just got passed over on the CY23E LAF-A board. I have a hire letter from a guard unit but my functional is saying he can’t release me because we are short manned. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only way for AD to keep me is to promote me. So the functional doesn’t have much say in releasing me because I can punch if passed over 2x? Also, does anyone have a letter to the board requesting not to promote that I could reference? 
 

thanks!

You are correct in that the only way they can keep you is by promoting you. Via congress if passed over twice you are allowed to “punch-out” regardless of ADSC, whether you are offered continuance or not depends. The only kicker with continuance is whether the severance package is offered to you or not upon departing the Military. To be honest I feel like I have more control in my situation than I have ever had before. The “worst” that could happen is getting promoted and having stability at a job for another 6 years or so. And the best is getting out before my ADSC is up (2031)…

[Shadow2]

5 hours ago, Smaggy said:

You are correct in that the only way they can keep you is by promoting you. Via congress if passed over twice you are allowed to “punch-out” regardless of ADSC, whether you are offered continuance or not depends. The only kicker with continuance is whether the severance package is offered to you or not upon departing the Military. To be honest I feel like I have more control in my situation than I have ever had before. The “worst” that could happen is getting promoted and having stability at a job for another 6 years or so. And the best is getting out before my ADSC is up (2031)…

@Smaggy, I was reading one of your posts from June and see you’re a Late to Rate Pilot…I’m a Late to Rate CSO. Seems like we both got passed over due to timing. What’s your plan since your ADSC isn’t until 2031…mine is 2027 and my palace chase eligibility opens up 2 months prior to the potential forced separation ~Nov/Dec 2025 pending when they release the Jan25 board results. 

[LiquidSky]

Does anyone have experience with writing a letter to their first board? Trying to get out asap for family reasons after the AF decided to send me from one terrible assignment to a second even worse one.

My most recent OPB was a top 1/3 squadron strat and I had better wing strats early on in my career. I'm wondering if a letter is enough to get passed over on board #1 or if I'm SOL because I was a decently good O on paper until now.

Edited October 8 by LiquidSky

[RedEye1911]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:10 PM, Polar Bear said:

Did you continue in the guard/reserves? 

Hell no.

On 6/17/2024 at 2:31 AM, justlooking said:

But if you decline continuation then you don't receive separation pay?

I got separation pay to the tune of $90,000. I told base finance, I told AFPC, and I told everyone. No one cared and everyone said the separation code on my DD-214 was correct. It's a wash and doesn't matter since I got VA disability. The payments are withheld until the separation pay matches what would have been paid.

Everything is great with year 3 pay at a legacy. The minimum daily pay is more than $1,000 and I work 15 days a month in a busy month. I have never worked so little or made so much money. 

Anyone who has any questions about getting out early by intentionally getting passed over can send me a message. I've been out for two years now, but I'm sure things haven't gotten any better.

 

[RedEye1911]

It looks like the 2025 NDAA changed getting out before ADSC completion if passed over twice:

Quote

EC. 506. EFFECT OF FAILURE OF SELECTION FOR PROMOTION: CAPTAINS AND 
              MAJORS OF THE ARMY, AIR FORCE, MARINE CORPS, AND SPACE 
              CORPS AND LIEUTENANTS AND LIEUTENANT COMMANDERS OF THE 
              NAVY.

    Section 632(c) of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read 
as follows:
    ``(c)(1) If an officer is subject to discharge under subsection 
(a)(1) and, as of the date on which the officer is to be discharged 
under that subsection, the officer has not completed the officer's 
active duty service obligation, the officer shall be retained on active 
duty until completion of such active duty service obligation, and then 
be discharged under subsection (a)(1), unless sooner retired or 
discharged under another provision of law.
    ``(2) The Secretary concerned may waive the applicability of 
paragraph (1) to any officer if the Secretary determines that 
completion of the active duty service obligation of that officer is not 
in the best interest of the service.''.

Lame. They must be very desperate to keep people in.

I hope anyone passed over once before this came into effect is grandfathered into the old rules.

In the end, the pay difference between Captain and Major is insignificant and no one in the airlines will give a crap. The military is just getting their full chunk of flesh now.

[CaptainMorgan]

It looks like the 2025 NDAA changed getting out before ADSC completion if passed over twice:

EC. 506. EFFECT OF FAILURE OF SELECTION FOR PROMOTION: CAPTAINS AND              MAJORS OF THE ARMY, AIR FORCE, MARINE CORPS, AND SPACE              CORPS AND LIEUTENANTS AND LIEUTENANT COMMANDERS OF THE              NAVY.   Section 632(c) of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:   ``(c)(1) If an officer is subject to discharge under subsection (a)(1) and, as of the date on which the officer is to be discharged under that subsection, the officer has not completed the officer's active duty service obligation, the officer shall be retained on active duty until completion of such active duty service obligation, and then be discharged under subsection (a)(1), unless sooner retired or discharged under another provision of law.   ``(2) The Secretary concerned may waive the applicability of paragraph (1) to any officer if the Secretary determines that completion of the active duty service obligation of that officer is not in the best interest of the service.''.

Lame. They must be very desperate to keep people in.
I hope anyone passed over once before this came into effect is grandfathered into the old rules.
In the end, the pay difference between Captain and Major is insignificant and no one in the airlines will give a crap. The military is just getting their full chunk of flesh now.

TLDR (the bill, not your post). Is this going to affect continuation? I was continued to 20, but have an ADSC that goes a month past that, and may incur another ADSC past my continuation date if I PCS again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the g-man]

8 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Lame. They must be very desperate to keep people in.
I hope anyone passed over once before this came into effect is grandfathered into the old rules.
In the end, the pay difference between Captain and Major is insignificant and no one in the airlines will give a crap. The military is just getting their full chunk of flesh now.

TLDR (the bill, not your post). Is this going to affect continuation? I was continued to 20, but have an ADSC that goes a month past that, and may incur another ADSC past my continuation date if I PCS again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m sure retirement rules come into play there with sanctuary and stuff like that

[illusive]

1 hour ago, the g-man said:

I’m sure retirement rules come into play there with sanctuary and stuff like that

I'm pretty sure you are protected. 

I don't think anyone other than this forum is tracking this change closely. FSS/AFPC even process the separation correctly?

I also don't know if the AFMANs need to be updated before this takes effect, since a lot of the AFMANs still say "By order of the SECAF ...twice non selected....".  Implying the SECAF still orders people to be given the option to discontinue 2nd time around.

[MIDN]

Not sure if its been mentioned yet, but promotion is always a choice that you can accept or decline, and declining promotion is legally treated the same as failure of selection for separation purposes. 

[LiquidSky]

Well the NDAA has been signed with the service obligation ammendment so it seems like the point is moot.

[Shadow2]

Hold up…I got passed over last year IPZ. This upcoming board on 7 Jan is my APZ1 board. What you’re saying is, if I get passed over again, the 6 month forced separation after board results are no longer in effect…I’ll still have to honor my ADSC? Bah Humbug! 

Edited Wednesday at 07:15 PM by Shadow2

[the g-man]

37 minutes ago, Shadow2 said:

Hold up…I got passed over last year IPZ. This upcoming board on 7 Jan is my APZ1 board. What you’re saying is, if I get passed over again, the 6 month forced separation after board results are no longer in effect…I’ll still have to honor my ADSC? Bah Humbug! 

Yeah merry fucking Xmas from whoever put that one in