Non-rated path to flying fighters in the guard/reserves?

[takingamessage]

Hey all,

Couldn't find an existing topic that covers the question, but I'm sure I'm not the first and only one who's ever wondered it. I also will say up front that I'm sure the chances are slim if they exist.

Long story short, I was a UPT stud, dot med DQed, went non-rated, got a waiver, re-applied, got denied to crosstrain by my CFM (didn't think that would be possible, but I digress). At this point I'm set up to attend a program with a new ADSC commitment for my next assignment, and I'll be about a mid-grade Captain by the time I can get out.

What I'm wondering is - is it possible, have you ever heard of anyone etc. rushing a guard or reserve fighter squadron as a a non-rated mid-grade Captain? I've heard of guys getting heavies off the street with virtually no PPL hours during the worst of the manning crisis, and I've heard of not even getting a look unless you're prior rated when manning is maxed out.

So all I'm really asking is - is there a chance?

Thanks in advance.

[Av8]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:18 PM, takingamessage said:

Hey all,

Couldn't find an existing topic that covers the question, but I'm sure I'm not the first and only one who's ever wondered it. I also will say up front that I'm sure the chances are slim if they exist.

Long story short, I was a UPT stud, dot med DQed, went non-rated, got a waiver, re-applied, got denied to crosstrain by my CFM (didn't think that would be possible, but I digress). At this point I'm set up to attend a program with a new ADSC commitment for my next assignment, and I'll be about a mid-grade Captain by the time I can get out.

What I'm wondering is - is it possible, have you ever heard of anyone etc. rushing a guard or reserve fighter squadron as a a non-rated mid-grade Captain? I've heard of guys getting heavies off the street with virtually no PPL hours during the worst of the manning crisis, and I've heard of not even getting a look unless you're prior rated when manning is maxed out.

So all I'm really asking is - is there a chance?

Thanks in advance.

Hey, great question and I'm wondering the same thing! I'm basically in the same situation, been on the roadshow for about 18 months now (started as an Lt) and its time to pick up an assignment as a non-rated Captain that will extend my ADSC 2 years.

Bad News: I have asked for feedback from every interview and every single time it is the same response..."we were just looking for guys who can come in as Lts, not Captains"...paraphrasing of course. Basically, we have a steep uphill road to climb to get selected solely because we already have rank.

Good News: It sucks to hear that you didn't get the slot because you are an active duty captain, but it's likely we are coming out of the lull in Air Force pilot hiring as airlines ramp up their pilot numbers, guard/reserve guys go back to airlines, and many squadrons are transitioning to new airframes (i.e. guys don't want to take orders to learn a new a/c when they are close to retiring). All this info combined with the Air Force always being a few years behind the pilot manpower curve signals that there may be a chance again soon for us, and 2 years might be the sweet spot. 

Honestly, I've been fairly discouraged as almost all the guys/gals I've met so far in interviews have gotten slots with fighter units. However, it's been a fun ride interviewing and getting to know some of the squadrons and other applicants...connections are priceless whether you get the job or not.

My question is: Will squadrons entertain your application if you have 2 years (non-rated) ADSC left? 

[brabus]

There’s always a chance, but I think most fighter units will shy away from an AD Capt, simply because you’ll already be ~9 years commissioned service before you get back from B-course (considering you’re starting at square one). It’s more desirable to hire someone who will have 2-3 years when they get back. Not to discourage you from making contacts and applying, but setting expectations. Can’t speak to heavies. 

[SocialD]

I'm in general agreement with Brabus Johnson, but my (fighter) squadron recently hired a Captain who is a BUFF Nav, so anything is possible.  Now it's slightly different because he is already rated, but you just never know.  Make them tell you no! 

[Av8]

A general bit of advice from someone who is in this situation currently.

Ask the right questions upfront, don't just shoot out an app without visiting or making contact with the squadron.

I had to learn this the hard way as I was able to secure quite a few interviews with fighter squadrons only to find out later that the reason I wasn't hired was because my civilian peers who are the same age or older have a leg up on me solely because they do not have Air Force officer experience. For example, if two applicants are completely equal throughout the process with similar scores/interviews/personality, the squadron will most likely pick the guy with no officer experience over the one who is an AD officer. With some squadrons receiving upwards of 200 qualified applicants, and everyone interviewing with scores in the upper 90s, the chances are near 0...but there's a chance.

What I should have done is contacted the hiring POC and ask them the tough questions upfront (i.e. Are you willing to hire an active duty captain? How many positions are you hiring for?). That's 100% on me for not asking those questions, as my mentality was more along the lines of 'throw a bunch of darts and see which ones stick'. Now I am more intent on rushing/asking questions early in the process and only applying to those squadrons I have first connected with.