Simone Biles

[M2]

[GrndPndr]

She just plain quit.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/07/28/why-are-we-celebrating-simone-biles-for-quitting-the-olympics/

I think there may even be a bit of race baiting in the media on this - but it hasn't worked.

[Lawman]

She just plain quit.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/07/28/why-are-we-celebrating-simone-biles-for-quitting-the-olympics/
I think there may even be a bit of race baiting in the media on this - but it hasn't worked.

While I’m sure a lot of that article is written intentionally to be provocative for the purpose of sharing and therefor add revenue…

His points on the “cult of the Loser” and its toxic effect on society and culture are spot on. What next, we gonna have a book deal and movie for the guy that rang the bell 3 days into Hell Week at BUDS?

Nothing worth having comes easy. We put champions on a podium for a reason, to stand above those and be awed by those who lack the skill drive and determination to be greater than the herd. That’s not something to be ashamed of, and the people suddenly pushing that narrative were probably picked last at Dodgeball and now feel like thanks to the magic of the Internet they can make that because society is toxic and not because they were the fattest slowest kid in 4th grade no matter how much gram gram told them they were special.

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[Tonka]

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

What next, we gonna have a book deal and movie for the guy that rang the bell 3 days into Hell Week at BUDS?

No need to celebrate it… but should that guy be ostracized and labelled a quitter? I bet you have 6-9 peers, friends, associates that have quit something like a marathon, triathlon, etc.  do you hold them to the same standard and call them out? The difference being the level of competition and the perceived entertainment value they provide… you’re gonna be done with this conversation in a week, they have to live with it the rest of their lives.

there is reason to believe, that the fallout of failure/quitting and it’s media (including social) representation of it are leading to not a cult/cultural of “losers” but to a culture of “never gonna try it” because everyone has to live with that response if/when they get to the point of quitting… which is probably worse for our society in the long run.

[Lawman]

No need to celebrate it… but should that guy be ostracized and labelled a quitter? I bet you have 6-9 peers, friends, associates that have quit something like a marathon, triathlon, etc.  do you hold them to the same standard and call them out? The difference being the level of competition and the perceived entertainment value they provide… you’re gonna be done with this conversation in a week, they have to live with it the rest of their lives.
there is reason to believe, that the fallout of failure/quitting and it’s media (including social) representation of it are leading to not a cult/cultural of “losers” but to a culture of “never gonna try it” because everyone has to live with that response if/when they get to the point of quitting… which is probably worse for our society in the long run.

Except we are celebrating it…

Go look at social media people are taking this as an excuse to expose all the times they handed in their chit at whatever challenge the encountered to be applauded by others in this self licking ice cream cone.

You wanna quit something fine, good for you, now move the F along. This isn’t about whether it’s right to quit, it’s about a mob of idiots so used to easy self satisfaction in the form of like/upvote/whatever that not only is quitting good, we need to reevaluate why we as a society place so much emphases on success. This is the “everybody gets a trophy” coach still takes you out for ice cream after you lose but on a whole new level.


You don’t want to stand on the podium fine, step down and clap for those that do. While the media sphere spends effort and Oxygen in Simone there is a whole team of people earning medals and still putting down that are not being talked about.


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[Lawman]

Damn… just to hammer home this point one more time because this randomly came up in my news feed and points out exactly what I’m talking about.



It’s like they invested so much, we can’t not point a spotlight at her. Yeah it’s unfair to make her a media mule for the machine, and yes she absolutely deserves to make the choice for herself on what and how she wants to live. This is still ridiculous though that she not competing is still receiving all this attention and limelight. If you’re number 3 or 4 on the gymnastics team or in any other Team USA position, how can you not be outraged that your moment is being hijacked for this. Table her situation and conversation for after the games. This is the time to celebrate champions, and they deserve their time and exposure on the podium.


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[Tonka]

8 hours ago, Lawman said:

Go look at social media people are taking this as an excuse to expose all the times they handed in their chit at whatever challenge the encountered to be applauded by others in this self licking ice cream cone.

You wanna quit something fine, good for you, now move the F along. This isn’t about whether it’s right to quit, it’s about a mob of idiots so used to easy self satisfaction in the form of like/upvote/whatever that not only is quitting good, we need to reevaluate why we as a society place so much emphases on success. This is the “everybody gets a trophy” coach still takes you out for ice cream after you lose but on a whole new level.

Yeah, i might be in an older social media group as i havent seen that side, at least not to those extremes... probably just some very different views- someone striving so hard for so long only to have to give up when the goal is in sight versus someone that never gives more than the minimum and expects the same glories and successes... 2 very different things. 

There definitely needs to be a motivation for success otherwise we become socialistic... 

[Hugo Stiglitz]

3 hours ago, Lawman said:

This is still ridiculous though that she not competing is still receiving all this attention and limelight.

I’m still unclear why you guys are triggered about Biles getting press. This isn’t some rookie the media anointed. I assume you’re unaware that she won 6 straight individual world championships leading into these. If Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt had withdrawn while favored to repeat I’d have also found that to be newsworthy at face value, not because of the invisible hand of some media overlord.
To riff off the analogy a few posts back, I think this situation would be a little more like someone “quitting” BUDS for a medical after previously making it through #1 in their class 6 straight years. And if that actually happened we’d be sitting around going “damn, can you believe the run that dude had,” not whining about socialist participation trophies and cults of losers. Relax, the kids are alright.

[ViperMan]

15 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m still unclear why you guys are triggered about Biles getting press. This isn’t some rookie the media anointed. I assume you’re unaware that she won 6 straight individual world championships leading into these. If Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt had withdrawn while favored to repeat I’d have also found that to be newsworthy at face value, not because of the invisible hand of some media overlord.

To riff off the analogy a few posts back, I think this situation would be a little more like someone “quitting” BUDS for a medical after previously making it through #1 in their class 6 straight years. And if that actually happened we’d be sitting around going “damn, can you believe the run that dude had,” not whining about socialist participation trophies and cults of losers. Relax, the kids are alright.

I'm triggered by our societal reaction to her act, as embodied by the liberal media, not the act in and of itself. As others have made clear, it's her body, her choice. No one should ever be forced to participate in something they feel is against their best interest.

That said, the media is using the story as a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they want to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them. For instance, MSNBC's Nicole Wallace called out "doughy, white, right-leaning, losers" in order to talk about how "f'd up" our country is. That's the story's actual utility for the media, and is the actual reason it's being talked about. That's what I'm frustrated by. It's being abused to continue harping on the race trope. Sadly, the host in the clip below is unironically racist herself. It would be funny if it were satire; unfortunately, she's being completely serious.

See for yourself how a racist statement it just tossed out by someone who is taken as credible. Imagine, if you will, had the statement been along the lines of "malnourished, Chinese, bat-eating, weasels." Would anyone tolerate that for a second had it been an utterance by Trump? Should it be tolerated as 'ok' by one of our major (so-called) serious media outlets?

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by ViperMan

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

I'm triggered by our societal reaction to her act, as embodied by the liberal media, not the act in and of itself. As others have made clear, it's her body, her choice. No one should ever be forced to participate in something they feel is against their best interest.

That said, the media is using the story as a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they want to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them. For instance, MSNBC's Nicole Wallace called out "doughy, white, right-leaning, losers" in order to talk about how "f'd up" our country is. That's the story's actual utility for the media, and is the actual reason it's being talked about. That's what I'm frustrated by. It's being abused to continue harping on the race trope. Sadly, the host in the clip below is unironically racist herself. It would be funny if it were satire; unfortunately, she's being completely serious.

See for yourself how a racist statement it just tossed out by someone who is taken as credible. Imagine, if you will, had the statement been along the lines of "malnourished, Chinese, bat-eating, weasels." Would anyone tolerate that for a second had it been an utterance by Trump? Should it be tolerated as 'ok' by one of our major (so-called) serious media outlets?

 

FWIW, MSNBC (especially it’s editorial/entertainment content) is about as credible as FOX News. Which is to say, mostly full of shit meant to keep people outraged and tuning in. Neither extreme should be painted as “credible” or even remotely serious.  

[Hugo Stiglitz]

5 hours ago, ViperMan said:

I'm triggered by our societal reaction to her act, as embodied by the liberal media, not the act in and of itself. As others have made clear, it's her body, her choice. No one should ever be forced to participate in something they feel is against their best interest.

That said, the media is using the story as a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they want to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them. For instance, MSNBC's Nicole Wallace called out "doughy, white, right-leaning, losers" in order to talk about how "f'd up" our country is. That's the story's actual utility for the media, and is the actual reason it's being talked about. That's what I'm frustrated by. It's being abused to continue harping on the race trope. Sadly, the host in the clip below is unironically racist herself. It would be funny if it were satire; unfortunately, she's being completely serious.

See for yourself how a racist statement it just tossed out by someone who is taken as credible. Imagine, if you will, had the statement been along the lines of "malnourished, Chinese, bat-eating, weasels." Would anyone tolerate that for a second had it been an utterance by Trump? Should it be tolerated as 'ok' by one of our major (so-called) serious media outlets?

 

Ok this is actually helpful, now I see my disconnect. Never heard of Nicole Wallace, as I doubt most people have, and I’d be willing to bet even those who have don’t ascribe a whole lot of value to whatever random thought flutters out of her mouth. I’m more than comfortable claiming she doesn’t speak for half of “society,” so I see no need to project half-baked thoughts from her, any random talking head, or social media warriors to the majority at large, much less raise my blood pressure over it. 
Incidentally I’m curious how you came across that clip…were you consuming your daily MSNBC digest when her comments perked up your ears, or did a conservative media source happen to pluck an offensive comment out of the mediaverse to create, as one smart dude put it, “a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they wish to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them”…?
I say give American society more credit. People are still (mostly) sane. 

[ViperMan]

35 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Ok this is actually helpful, now I see my disconnect. Never heard of Nicole Wallace, as I doubt most people have, and I’d be willing to bet even those who have don’t ascribe a whole lot of value to whatever random thought flutters out of her mouth. I’m more than comfortable claiming she doesn’t speak for half of “society,” so I see no need to project half-baked thoughts from her, any random talking head, or social media warriors to the majority at large, much less raise my blood pressure over it.

Incidentally I’m curious how you came across that clip…were you consuming your daily MSNBC digest when her comments perked up your ears, or did a conservative media source happen to pluck an offensive comment out of the mediaverse to create, as one smart dude put it, “a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they wish to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them”…?

I say give American society more credit. People are still (mostly) sane. 

Yeah, I certainly don't either. But it does concern me that I see similar narratives being talked about in other outlets. It concerns me more that these come from so-called serious outlets. Fox may be biased towards the right, but I don't see actual, overt racism passing on that network. The example cited is particularly egregious, but it's not unique.

I came across a CNN article (which I begrudgingly admit is a source I frequent) that glorified the act of quitting. I thought the take was ridiculous, and (of course) so did other conservative news outlets. That clip was the central subject of one of those articles which rightfully identified it as racist.

Let's hope you're right.

[Lord Ratner]

8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Ok this is actually helpful, now I see my disconnect. Never heard of Nicole Wallace, as I doubt most people have, and I’d be willing to bet even those who have don’t ascribe a whole lot of value to whatever random thought flutters out of her mouth. I’m more than comfortable claiming she doesn’t speak for half of “society,” so I see no need to project half-baked thoughts from her, any random talking head, or social media warriors to the majority at large, much less raise my blood pressure over it. 
Incidentally I’m curious how you came across that clip…were you consuming your daily MSNBC digest when her comments perked up your ears, or did a conservative media source happen to pluck an offensive comment out of the mediaverse to create, as one smart dude put it, “a mechanism to continue to centralize topics they wish to talk about, in a light they wish to cast them”…?
I say give American society more credit. People are still (mostly) sane. 

While I agree with your main premise, that overwhelmingly the public is not nearly as insane as the political class (including all those who are professionally involved with the political world: media, analysts, govt, etc), the topic of CRT has shown that a dedicated minority (in this case, the Marxist-ish takeover of American Universities) can have an outsized effect.

 

What is unclear is the long term efficacy of minority/intellectual movements. CRT is hitting a brick wall now that they attempted to spread in the realm of normal people, i.e. public K-12 school. But that won't necessary result in the removal of CRT garbage from the universities or corporate America.

 

Conservatives are waking up to the notion that you can't just focus on elections and the supreme court. Steering the culture matters too. The current progressive movement is so overtly racist that it's hard to imagine long term success, but even the remote possibility is terrifying to anyone who focuses more on second and third order effects. I don't want my kids growing up in a more-racist world than I did.

 

I've been saying that white supremacy would make a return since Obama's second term. There was a point somewhere during his presidency where the narrative on racism shifted from "I have a dream" to identity politics, specifically the notion that race was a central component of one's being, and should be celebrated rather than minimized. But only if you're brown. 

 

It was only a matter of time before a bunch of ignorant white people took that message literally and started celebrating their own skin color.

 

That's why I fear a movement that thrives on MSNBC. Because isolated though it may be, the most powerful man on the planet parrots the talking points in nearly every speech, so it's not that niche.

[skybert]

She’s branded a greater hero for quitting than any of you will ever be for serving this country.

that’s sad.

[Lawman]

Actually, they are being talked about. You likely don't care because it's not politicized.
I've literally never seen a single person here make even the slightest mention about women's gymnastics in the 16 or so years I've been on this board. But all of a sudden an explosion of interest happens out of the blue. Gee, I wonder why.
 

Yeah apparently you missed (along with plenty of other things proven in your post history) the fact that some of us are watching and cheering for Olympians both within and outside the big press groups like women’s gymnastics.

Every second of air time in ESPN or major media outlets spent on her right now is somebody that went through god knows what to compete at that level not getting that time. So long as the games are ongoing, there are 612 athletes that deserve attention before we dedicate any time to discussing her.


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[GrndPndr]

She's back!  Yes folks, back in time for the Balance Beam.  Hope she survives:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/simone-biles-balance-beam-final-tokyo-olympics-11627893493?st=3jzlmp139o61upy&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[TreeA10]

My wife loves watching this stuff and this morning, there was a Silver Medalist gymnast being interviewed.  Instead of asking her about her path to the Olympics, her work hours, and her achievement, the idiot interviewer is asking the Medal winning gymnast what she thinks of Simone Biles.  I was impressed with her answers as a solid supporting teammate but it's was another conversation about a non-winner eclipsing the accomplishments of a winner.

[Lawman]

Apologies, apparently this whole time you were a lifelong women's gymnastics superfan (that suspiciously chose this precise moment to weigh in on their passion).
But I'm glad we have people like you to feel outraged on behalf of all those athletes that have overwhelmingly shown nothing but enthusiastic support for Biles' decision.

Some of us know Olympians.

It’s not my fault your social circle is so limited. Maybe expand beyond the D&D and R/furry communities. Expand your horizons a bit.


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[HuggyU2]

I've spent a fair amount of time around the airshow circuit, with pilots that perform with what many of us would consider "reduced margins".  

When things don't seem right... when you're not "on your game"... when you don't feel you have the ability to safely perform a demanding routine and the consequences are significant... you step back and say "today, I will stand down.".  

I've done it myself in the airshow industry... and I (and many of us here) have done it in our day-to-day operations with extremely expensive tax-payer-bought gov't aircraft.  

If someone at Red Flag exceeds RM tolerances and says "not today, folks", are they ridiculed?

I really don't know much about Biles, gymnastics, Olympics sports... and I really don't care.  But having watched the stuff she does, it is highly dangerous/risky.  If she isn't on her game, she would be foolish to continue and risk a serious injury.  

Most of us here have impressed on our kids that they must "complete what they start".  They don't want to play soccer one weekend when they would prefer to go to the zoo... well, you made a commitment.  

Instilling in them a sense of responsibility to the team is a far cry from insisting that they push through something extreme/dangerous when they KNOW they cannot succeed.  

If Ms Biles says she isn't up to performing the crazy shit she does... that less than 100 people out of 7,000,000,000 on the Earth can do... then, she should walk.  

And give the middle finger to anyone who objects.  

Edited August 3, 2021 by HuggyU2

[Lord Ratner]

11 hours ago, Lawman said:

 Maybe expand beyond the [...] R/furry communities. Expand your horizons a bit.

Logic penalty. If you're into furry stuff, your horizon is pretty f'n expanded

[Eli]

CNN is reporting that her aunt died two days ago.  Simone says they were pretty close. 
 

amazes me how people are so quick to judge another’s life and choices with zero knowledge. 

[ViperMan]

5 hours ago, Eli said:

CNN is reporting that her aunt died two days ago.  Simone says they were pretty close. 

amazes me how people are so quick to judge another’s life and choices with zero knowledge. 

Really? You're about to lose sleep? Here, grab ahold of these:

Edited August 4, 2021 by ViperMan

[skibum]

Is the "twisties" for a gymnast sort of like the "drops" for a wide receiver?

I watched some of the men completely obliterate themselves off the high bar, losing themselves in the air while twisting about three times higher than the vault and then get right back up to do it again. There was no commentator/media fawning -- just a yawn and "better luck next Olympics."

Edited August 4, 2021 by skibum

[SurelySerious]

Or life just moved on.

[Danger41]

23 hours ago, joe1234 said:

Wow, this thread suddenly become silent after a key piece of information was revealed.

Quick, does anyone here know any Olympians???? Surely, we could all benefit from a highly informed point of view following these new revelations!

I actually do (including a 4 time gold medalist who is no longer with us —Al Oerter). Each time he won a gold medal, there was some crazy circumstances making it more difficult, but he stepped up and did it. He won his 3rd gold with torn cartilage in his ribs and a neck brace from a car wreck. The pain was too bad to make his final throw and the doctors said he shouldn’t compete but he said “These are the olympics. You die for them.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Oerter

I know that’s all just toxic masculinity and white male privilege, but it’s an incredible story. He also kept the 4 gold medals in an unlocked desk drawer and the Olympic torch from 1996 leaning on the corner of his office (which was mainly family pictures and his own art). I actually dropped one of them as a kid and he just laughed and told me it was okay. He was a great man. 
 

We will never agree and I don’t have a leg to stand on because my athletic achievements were nowhere near that level. My issue is with this cultural movement of glorifying quitting and the individual over the team. I’m absolutely not faulting her for her choice and applaud her sincerely for earning the bronze on the beam later. That’s incredibly impressive and a credit to her to do that. I also don’t want to minimize the impact of a family member’s death or physical impairment (whether injury or equilibrium problems or whatever). 
 

I’m supremely happy about the focus on mental health and hope this, Naomi Osaka, etc help to remove the stigma about discussing and helping those who need it. I don’t view her as “weak” or “can’t hack it”. I understand it’s a story but Suni Lee, Jade Carey and others on the same team went on to win gold medals in women’s gymnastics but all the discussion was on Simone. It is what it is.

The last thing that really irks me about this situation is any kind of racism and/or sexism implication to those that didn’t think her decision was heroic. That’s another cultural thing but who knows if we’re ever going to back off from that.