PME points processing question

[Chida]

I just did my first PME course since the switchover to ASU happened about a year ago. Anybody have experience with points posting to PCARS with ASU yet? Do the points show up with each course you do (ie no changes)? If the points don’t show up, what proof do you have to give the PCARS people since AUSIS is now shut out of the process?

[Guardian]

Unknown about ASU but you can submit a MyPers incident/message and ask the question.

[Milton]

I tried finding this out recently (currently in ACSC/OLMP).  I submitted a ticket/inquiry to ASU but, not surprisingly, they had no idea since ECI points are an AFRC/ARPC thing, outside of the school.

I asked on some AU board (forget the site, might have been an AU commercial website), got a random phone number that ended up being an AU staffers cell phone (wtf?) and called other various numbers at Maxwell to no avail.  Aggravating, yes.  Surprised, not in the least.

Seems like AU has completely divested themselves from involvement in the distance learning platforms, which in most cases is great, but for the few AF-specific issues, good luck getting any help.  Would be curious to see what others have found.

[Chida]

For years now (at least as far back as 2013) AU has been saying that points will only be awarded at the end of a program, and then posted retroactively according to the date you finished each individual course.
Problem was that there was no mechanism to accomplish that. With the outsourcing to ASU they now have a mechanism it seems…
I’ll post back if I ever see points, but I fear I’ve only wasted my time as it seems the only way to get the points is by finishing AWC and it’s highly doubtful I’ll do that.

[Milton]

When I did SOS online a few years ago, the points posted everytime I finished a class (there were 8 or so modules). But that was the old system, pre-ASU.

 

[nunya]

I remember reading a message a few months ago that they'd "fixed the glitch."  Points used to show up after every class but the memo said it'll only be after course completion now.  

[Chida]

Do you remember where you saw the memo?


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[nunya]

I looked back in my email and couldn't find it.  I think it was in a periodic summary/update from our O-6.  

But it's in the AWC and ACSC student handbooks, too.  A lot of us got lucky and got points awarded for each class, but if you're not seeing that, the system is working per the book.  Sorry I don't have a loophole for you.

Quote

3.4.4.1   RECORDING  AIR RESERVE  COMPONENT  STUDY  HOURS /  RESERVE POINTS Air  National  Guard and Air  Reserve component (ARC)  officers  receive reserve retirement credit points  based on program  completion and its  respective  contact hours. Students  must coordinate with  Air  Reserve Personnel  Center  (ARPC)  to ensure retirement points  based on study  hours  are correctly  assigned/updated. 

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/eSchool/documents/Combined_Officer_PME_Handbook.pdf?ver=K3pANGZhoy9T3jshiknhUw%3d%3d

 

[Tankerstream]

Any updates on this from anyone who has completed a class under the new ASU learning system?? I made a similar Mypers inquiry before seing this thread, and the response from the tech vaguely alluded that PCARS would still update after each class was completed...

[Chida]

Success with the following:
1. Download the “Program Progress” from ASU.
2. Highlight what course you are claiming
3. Send via Mypers to the points people

They’re now awarding 1 point per 4 “study hours”

[Tankerstream]

On 11/1/2021 at 6:14 PM, Chida said:

Success with the following:
1. Download the “Program Progress” from ASU.
2. Highlight what course you are claiming
3. Send via Mypers to the points people

They’re now awarding 1 point per 4 “study hours”

Thanks for the reply, I'll give this a shot and see if this works myself (can report there has been no automatic point addition 90+ days from ASU course completion). UPDATE: This appears to be way to go for anyone who wants ECI points logged along the way. With the horrendous (borderline criminal) wait times for IDT/travel reimbursement these days, could be a great way to get a few retirement points without taking a massive paycut

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tankerstream
Update

[herkbier]

Shouldn’t it be one point per 3 (not 4) hours?

[Chida]

It was until ~2 years ago when the DODI was quietly changed. So now 4 study hrs per point, as decreed by DOD. Service regs may or may not have been updated yet.

[herkbier]

That sucks, rough math is that each class was worth $25/yr in retirement, I guess it’s $17 now. One less six pack of beer..

[Chida]

Well I guess it could be worse. In FY17 and on, the Army decided to award 0 pts for pme to reservists/ng. But yes, the games AU and AFRC play with the points in my view is theft. I got 83 points for ACSC in 2014. Nowadays, ACSC is much longer AND you get fewer points.

[bertramwooster]

I completed ACSC in residence years ago and AWC by correspondence several years ago.  Does anyone know if there is any restriction on re-accomplishing newer versions of these correspondence courses for retirement point credit?  What about sister service options?  I saw that the NWC has an online command and staff program (IDE), but I don't know if one is eligible having already accomplished IDE and SDE.

[Chida]

Bout the only thing you can do is try to enroll and if successful, try to claim points with the PCARS people after finishing your first "course". In my experience no one can tell you anything and if you try to press for an answer they'll start with the guessing games.

[kaputt]

Bringing this thread back because I have a question of how quickly points are awarded from these PME courses. I'm an IMA reservist and thanks to a perfect storm of continuing resolution and other organization specific budget issues it's possible that I'll run the risk of not getting my 50 points for a good year by my R/R date. Planned IDTs and AT keep being pushed further and further into the year. Unless something changes its possible I'll have 18 IDT points and 15 membership points, and that's it.

Now I've been enrolled in a PME course, and kind of been slow rolling it, but I'm now at a point where just based on the facilitated courses I know I can be done in around the next two months, which would still give me a couple month cushion from my R/R date. 

So for the points questions; in theory these should be added automatically to PCARS once I finish the course, correct? If so, how long should that take? OR, am I going to need to create a ticket in myFSS to ask for these to be added? Also, some of my courses I finished in my previous R/R year. Will they retroactively add ADL points to that previous year, or will all of the ADL points just get put under the year I finished the course in?

Thanks!

[brabus]

I can’t be the only one, so cranimum’s up everyone…

Did ACSC while on full time orders several years ago. Just realized my PCARS only granted PME points during that timeframe instead of giving me the active days points. So until fixed, I am about 6 months short of owed active days towards an AGR retirement. Check your shit guys, I’m an idiot for taking this many years to figure it out.

Edited January 5 by brabus

[O Face]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:16 AM, brabus said:

I can’t be the only one, so cranimum’s up everyone…

Did ACSC while on full time orders several years ago. Just realized my PCARS only granted PME points during that timeframe instead of giving me the active days points. So until fixed, I am about 6 months short of owed active days towards an AGR retirement. Check your shit guys, I’m an idiot for taking this many years to figure it out.

I’m probably wrong, but I was under the impression that if you were on orders you would not get active days points on top for your PME?  Thats what I was told and it seemed dumb enough for me to believe.  I was told some bullshit about once you accumulate a certain amount of points, you won’t get any more for your PME. 

[brabus]

You can get PME points that count towards a guard retirement, but not an AGR retirement (e.g. if you knocked out PME as a DSG). I want the days counting towards an AGR since I’m close enough to maybe get one. I was on orders when I did ACSC in correspondence, so don’t want those days to not count towards my AGR retirement just because I happened to be enrolled in PME at the time. 

[O Face]

Gotcha. Yeah that’s shitty. Hope that gets unfucked for you. 

Edited January 7 by O Face
:

[mcbush]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:15 PM, kaputt said:

Bringing this thread back because I have a question of how quickly points are awarded from these PME courses. I'm an IMA reservist and thanks to a perfect storm of continuing resolution and other organization specific budget issues it's possible that I'll run the risk of not getting my 50 points for a good year by my R/R date. Planned IDTs and AT keep being pushed further and further into the year. Unless something changes its possible I'll have 18 IDT points and 15 membership points, and that's it.

Now I've been enrolled in a PME course, and kind of been slow rolling it, but I'm now at a point where just based on the facilitated courses I know I can be done in around the next two months, which would still give me a couple month cushion from my R/R date. 

So for the points questions; in theory these should be added automatically to PCARS once I finish the course, correct? If so, how long should that take? OR, am I going to need to create a ticket in myFSS to ask for these to be added? Also, some of my courses I finished in my previous R/R year. Will they retroactively add ADL points to that previous year, or will all of the ADL points just get put under the year I finished the course in?

Thanks!

In theory, they should go in and give you points for each course once you've finished the entire program. I'm virtually certain that's true for courses you took in previous R/R years too.

In practice, I finished ACSC in mid-Nov 2023 and don't have any points to show for it yet. Since it's only been 2 months and nothing happens fast around the ARC, I wouldn't find that weird at all... if nothing had happened up to this point. What is weird though, is that almost immediately after I finished the program, 5 of the courses I took (out of 15 or however many) did show up on my PCARS, but all of them are on the wrong dates and are apparently worth zero points. I sent them a ticket in myFSS asking about it, but of course haven't heard back.

Bottom line at the bottom: might be possible depending on your R/R date, but you're gonna want to bang out these courses as fast as possible in order to leave yourself as much time as possible to hound the HR points nerds at the end. Worst case, they can probably credit them after your R/R year closes out and change your bad year to a good year, but I haven't pressed to test on that issue, so I'll defer to someone smarter than me.

[kona4breakfast]

Points aren't days; all days count as points but points do not count as days. Only days on orders count towards TAFMS and the 'active duty' retirement (20 years and punch). Points count towards both retirement systems in the calculation of 'years of service. You have to accrue 20 years of days in order to qualify for the active retirement, but...

"The years of creditable service for computation of the retired pay percentage multiplier include all active duty and any credited reserve points divided by 360."

In order to have a 'good year' for the reserve retirement, you have to have at least 50 points in that year (or that year doesn't count). Also, any points earned in a year above 365/6 don't count... at all. My understanding is that if you don't reach 50 points, you don't receive that year as credit towards the 20 good years you'd need in order to be eligible for a reserve retirement, but those points are still creditable points.

If you want to get to 50 points, you'll need to get points if your unit can't, for some reason, give you your IDTs, which alone should be enough. Can you not ask for rescheduled drill?

When I was in the Army guard, there was something called 'points only' status that they'd use when they were broke, or when a part-timer needed to do something in a mil status that wasn't part of their line of duty (say, like go for an incentive helicopter ride). Their admin folks would put them on a points-only status that basically cost the unit nothing. I know of academy grads that talk to prospective candidates for points-only in the IRR to get a few more good years. Perhaps that's something you could talk to your unit about?

If you do nug out PME, it ought to show up after you complete the program. I believe it took until the PCARS was finalized about 60 days after my R/Y ended for my ACSC to show up, as they only seem to update your PCARS once a year. Fair warning, I only received 1 point for my efforts. I accrued 379 points that year for membership points, days and IDTs, so I don't particularly care to address it, but caveat emptor.

Edited January 17 by kona4breakfast

[kaputt]

Appreciate the responses, looks like it is going to be the ass pain I assumed it would be. I should be done with the PME course in March which gives some cushion from my July R/R date. 
 

As far as rescheduling days, I’m an IMA, so I don’t support my unit on a traditional drill schedule. Further complicating it is I support a civilian organization under the DoD that is having budget constraints beyond just CR items. AT and IDT day discussions have centered around being pushed further into the FY, potentially beyond my R/R date, even if a subsequent CR gets passed. 
 

Points only has been discussed and as of now is not being authorized. I am thinking about reaching out to the Academy and CAPRAP programs and seeing what it takes to pick them up as additional duties. At the very least it’s additional OPR fodder even if the budget stuff gets worked out. 
 

Ultimately I think I’ll be good points wise if the PME points get credited on time. Hopefully the budget will work itself out and this will be moot.