Gen Milley should resign

[Royal]

14 hours ago, Clayton Bigsby said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/afghanistan-debacle-fuels-general-officer-crisis?fbclid=IwAR0VjSz-rb_E4TlObu2uYtC82Umxg358nA9wgs9Pa0eHqAlSICijzKkWzEA

Speaking of, what happened to Capt Crozier? I'm also curious to see if these two guys will be responsible for more officers being aggressively and publicly candid. The DoD is usually a dozen steps behind, and with social media's ability to amplify a voice to hundreds of millions of people, I wouldn't be surprised if we see multiple leaders taking a note from Scheller's playbook.

[Danger41]

I’m not a Commander or anybody worth much of a crap in the military, but I’d be willing to be a part of that movement. I don’t think those actions are disloyal or anything like that. Hell, I’d say Lt Col Scheller’s actions epitomize the USAF’s core values in asking for integrity, putting the service before the individual, and a demand for excellence.

[Lawman]

I’m not a Commander or anybody worth much of a crap in the military, but I’d be willing to be a part of that movement. I don’t think those actions are disloyal or anything like that. Hell, I’d say Lt Col Scheller’s actions epitomize the USAF’s core values in asking for integrity, putting the service before the individual, and a demand for excellence.

It is sad that the only person likely to face any real punishment or personal admonishment in this whole ordeal bares no responsibility for the shit show.

His punishment is completely based on the method at which he said the emperor has no clothes.


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[BashiChuni]

Has one general spoken out against our Afghanistan strategy within the last 20 years? Anyone resign? 
 

I can’t remember a single flag officer objecting. If you can I’d love to know the name. It’s shameful. But can’t rock the boat transitioning to that defense contractor gig!

[SurelySerious]

Has one general spoken out against our Afghanistan strategy within the last 20 years? Anyone resign? 
 
I can’t remember a single flag officer objecting. If you can I’d love to know the name. It’s shameful. But can’t rock the boat transitioning to that defense contractor gig!

Does McChrystal count?

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Has one general spoken out against our Afghanistan strategy within the last 20 years? Anyone resign? 
 

I can’t remember a single flag officer objecting. If you can I’d love to know the name. It’s shameful. But can’t rock the boat transitioning to that defense contractor gig!

Mosley sort of did. He refused to invest in expansion of forces CENTCOM wanted in favor of forces necessary vfor 5th gen war and was fired for it. 

[tac airlifter]

9 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Does McChrystal count?

No.  Don’t believe they hype, he was and is a political creature.  
 

That he was fired because his underlings were undisciplined and foolish does not equate to speaking truth to power and being willing to fall for it.

[Sua Sponte]

20 hours ago, FLEA said:

Mosley sort of did. He refused to invest in expansion of forces CENTCOM wanted in favor of forces necessary vfor 5th gen war and was fired for it. 

He was fired for the Minot Buff flying nukes incident. Robert Gates mentions it in his book “Duty.”

[raimius]

35 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

He was fired for the Minot Buff flying nukes incident. Robert Gates mentions it in his book “Duty.”

Sure..."for that"...

Context clues say that Gates didn't like the way AF leadership was trying to prep for high-end fights at the expense of another couple dozen Pred CAPs over Iraq.

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, raimius said:

Sure..."for that"...

Context clues say that Gates didn't like the way AF leadership was trying to prep for high-end fights at the expense of another couple dozen Pred CAPs over Iraq.

This. The nuke thing was the public event that Gates could use but Gates and Mosely fought vigorously over AF investment priorities. 

Its like when you have that one POS airmen with tons of discipline and you use a sloppy haircut to give him his final LOR. 

[hindsight2020]

Trivializing a Bent Spear as a 'haircut LOR' just because it happens in the midst of a "cEnTcOm priorities" kerfuffle is a weird flex, but OK....

For context, those of us who got stuck sucking the SAC-redux d!ck for a while don't view everything from the binary "centcom or you're a nonner". I didn't join the Army, I got no identity crisis.

#PACAFLivesMatters #hafadai #NoTaxFree #FlagPole #PRP

😄  

[Sua Sponte]

[ClearedHot]

[jazzdude]

https://www.washingtonexaminer...358nA9wgs9Pa0eHqAlSICijzKkWzEA

Stuart Scheller stated, "I think what you believe in can only be defined by what you’re willing to risk. So, if I’m willing to risk my current battalion commander seat, my retirement, my family’s stability to say some of the things I want to say, I think it gives me some moral high ground to demand the same honesty, integrity, accountability from my senior leaders."

Sometimes when you take a risk, that risk gets realized.

[ClearedHot]

2 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

https://www.washingtonexaminer...358nA9wgs9Pa0eHqAlSICijzKkWzEA


Sometimes when you take a risk, that risk gets realized.

The system will now play dirty, he was directed by his commander to report for a mental health screening. 

[Jayhawker]

I hope stories like Scheller's gets thrown back in the faces of the current government come midterms.

Not saying that he should be free from consequence, but like, really? Generals patting themselves on the back for "the best airlift operation since Berlin" while court-martialing an FGO for daring to question their integrity? It's genuinely disgraceful, no matter how you slice it.

If some generals owned up to it, took accountability, and resigned, and then Scheller got court-martialed anyways, I would think it would be more justified. But this? Absolutely disgraceful. It seems like to get a bird or stars, you have to turn in your balls first.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

The system will now play dirty, he was directed by his commander to report for a mental health screening. 

Based on his latest post, I don't think that's playing dirty. If anything, that's his commander trying to build him an out that doesn't involve a court-martial.

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

The system will now play dirty, he was directed by his commander to report for a mental health screening. 

If there’s legal proceedings happening, he cannot be compelled to talk to a mental health provider (only show up to his appointment). Any of their notes can be subpoenaed by the government and if he goes to a court martial will make the military judge conduct an in camera review to see if parts are releasable. If he doesn’t say anything, those records don’t exist.

[BashiChuni]

This headline about sums up the entire thing

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Based on his latest post, I don't think that's playing dirty. If anything, that's his commander trying to build him an out that doesn't involve a court-martial.

So he can plead insanity?  I think we've seen he is making an ethical choice vice one driven by a mental disorder. 

2 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

If there’s legal proceedings happening, he cannot be compelled to talk to a mental health provider (only show up to his appointment). Any of their notes can be subpoenaed by the government and if he goes to a court martial will make the military judge conduct an in camera review to see if parts are releasable. If he doesn’t say anything, those records don’t exist.

Fully understand and know it won't used in legal preceding unless they can hang a mental disorder that requires confinement. 

This is simply the seniors screwing with him, a little intimidation to go with trying to crush his business.

[Bender]

No need to worry about promoting someone into a command position with a mental health disorder. “We’re revamping that process already!”.

I’m actually sorry he’s roughing it, I’d probably give him 20 bucks.

~Bendy


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[jazzdude]

Fully understand and know it won't used in legal preceding unless they can hang a mental disorder that requires confinement. 
This is simply the seniors screwing with him, a little intimidation to go with trying to crush his business.

My guess goes the other way: if a mental health evaluation shows he has no mental health issues, it clears the way to drop the hammer on him in a very public manner, moreso than has already been done. If he does have mental health issues, I'd guess that at best paves the way towards possibly finishing his career and getting to retirement, or if nothing else, an honorable discharge.

As for his business, well, generally it pays to not piss off the leadership of an organization that encompasses your entire customer base. I wouldn't have been surprised if any other vendor had make public statements bashing DoD leadership and then had their contacts terminated or items taken off the shelf either, especially for non-mission critical items sold in the exchange. Unfortunately for him, it's a double whammy. Might be time to revamp his website to do direct orders rather than rely on the MCX and improve his advertising game to reach his customer base.

[ClearedHot]

While I agree with Scheller's assessment, I do not agree with his method of execution.  That being said he ultimately has to answer to his own conscience.  His actions do remind us that we took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and we do have a responsibility to thoughtfully and legally execute the orders we are given, and a duty to refuse illegal orders.  I would invite you all to read Breaking Ranks: Dissent and the Military Professional written by a great friend and Marine War College classmate Andrew Milburn.  The reaction to his paper was maddening.  The great bloviator Tom Ricks from the Wash Po latched on to Andy's paper and wrote a very negative response which demonstrates that even the greatest of authors can have a basic comprehension problem.   Andy explored the subject and wrote the paper under the cloak of academic freedom in a forum we are all supposedly encouraged to think deep thoughts.  Initially there was some push back from on high, thankfully NDU and other forces stepped in to provide protection.

 

 

[busdriver]

There's a line of thinking among those who've never been in the military but are steeped in political thought.  Namely that civilian control of the military means that men and women in uniform are supposed to be more than apolitical, they should be soulless cogs in the machine, there to do the bidding of whomever gets elected. 

To a degree it's understandable, a standing military the likes of the DoD is unprecedented.  To an outsider we are a weird bunch, and in their perception of how it all works, wield more power than any block of humans ever.  Soulless cogs are less immediately scary, even if that's a larger risk to a free republic in the long run.

WaPo Opinion Article is an example to add to what CH posted. 

All that said, Scheller's second abandoned bus post does creep me out a bit.

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:21 AM, Sua Sponte said:

I said it elsewhere about the Marine who got discharged over wearing a mask, and I’ll say it again: maybe I TRULY have no spine, or backbone, or moral foundation, but I would ABSOLUTELY NOT risk my family’s well being over masks or making a viral video publicly criticizing senior leaders like he did. I applaud his tenacity to do exactly that, but I value my family’s wellbeing over my desire to hold senior leaders accountable.

 

I acknowledge that means I’m one of those free loading military officers that has sacrificed 11 years of holidays, birthdays, relationships, and everything else that we give up when we join in the name of duty to country, but I draw the line between “being ordered to deploy and I can’t say no because I volunteered to serve” and “voluntarily making a public statement criticizing senior leaders knowing ill be punished.”

 

But a COURT MARTIAL? WTF? His actions weren’t on the same level as a felony. What a great way to prove his point—they should’ve fired him and then moved on, not court martial the dude. Wtf