Gen Milley should resign

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

No, he shouldn't resign, come on now...

He should be fired!

If all is true, and he is legally convicted through due process of the courts, he needs to face the sentencing punishment for treason which is death.

[Springer]

1 hour ago, torqued said:

No, I could never say 100%. And I should have qualified everything with "If true..." That's why there needs to be a public investigation and hearing. Woodward's record may not be 100%, but he typically doesn't outright fabricate entire events.

The news is coming fast, and there are reports that the calls were intercepted by foreign allies targeting CCP leadership that generated calls back to Washington asking "WTF?".

There are also unverified reports that members in that secret meeting have agreed to testify against Milley if called.

Believe it or not, even Alex Vindeman is beside himself calling for Milley's resignation. LOL.

I'm sure more details will emerge in the next couple days, and I need to resist the urge to make condemnations. Milley himself really really needs to make a statement. We'll see. Where there's smoke...

 

Fox News' Jennifer Griffin (whom I respect) is reporting Woodward's book is not accurate according to her sources.

[Lord Ratner]

Woodward jumped the shark a while ago. He'll bite on a juicy story from anyone if it'll give him a shadow of the high he got from Watergate. 

[Guest]

@Disco_Nav963 I see you downvoted my sentencing recommendation. What sentence would you prefer for treason instead? A guilty plea down to a low level misdemeanor offense and 2 months un-supervised probation?

[Lowspeedhidrag]

After the last year and a half, this sadly kinda fits....(not a Trump supporter BTW) just disgusted with the whole AFG debacle & horrendous lack of priorities by most of the senior 'leadership'....

[BashiChuni]

Milley is a fucking disgrace 

[ClearedHot]

I know Austin is set to testify within the next two weeks, I hope the same for Milley.  I am suspicious when it comes to Woodward these days but if even parts of this are true then by definition didn't we have a partial military coupe in this country?  If CJCS makes subordinates swear an oath and instructs them to ignore orders from the president...wow just wow...especially as it relates to nukes.  Now if Milley wants to make the argument that Trump was not of sound mind, why didn't he come forward?

Also and just as concerning, these reporters have know about this for months and they didn't come forward.  The press is supposed to be the 4th estate, the final check and balance for the people.  Instead it has morphed into an extension of one party with members that are simply trying to become wealthy themselves.  These reporters had a duty to come forward and report.  IF what they wrote is true and they certainly must believe it is true, the CJCS attempted a coupe and possibly treason, but they kept quite and wrote a book.  Example #69 of how broken the press actually is.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

I know Austin is set to testify within the next two weeks, I hope the same for Milley.  I am suspicious when it comes to Woodward these days but if even parts of this are true then by definition didn't we have a partial military coupe in this country?  If CJCS makes subordinates swear an oath and instructs them to ignore orders from the president...wow just wow...especially as it relates to nukes.  Now if Milley wants to make the argument that Trump was not of sound mind, why didn't he come forward?

Also and just as concerning, these reporters have know about this for months and they didn't come forward.  The press is supposed to be the 4th estate, the final check and balance for the people.  Instead it has morphed into an extension of one party with members that are simply trying to become wealthy themselves.  These reporters had a duty to come forward and report.  IF what they wrote is true and they certainly must believe it is true, the CJCS attempted a coupe and possibly treason, but they kept quite and wrote a book.  Example #69 of how broken the press actually is.

Grifters are on all sides. I see what you mean and agree. Part of me wants to think they wanted to compile all their information into one document (the book) before release so it’s more comprehensive when reviewed/scrutinized; but I agree with you the possibility they waited to release information to grift for $$$ by selling a book. Maybe both reasons are true simultaneously.

[raimius]

14 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

If all is true, and he is legally convicted through due process of the courts, he needs to face the sentencing punishment for treason which is death.

Saying you are going to do something treasonous if something else happens is not the same as commiting treason.  Slow your roll there.

[FLEA]

45 minutes ago, raimius said:

Saying you are going to do something treasonous if something else happens is not the same as commiting treason.  Slow your roll there.

I dunno man. Damage was done for this. He subverted civilian control of the military and betrayed our defense posture to a strategic competitor. This is serious. If anyone else did this, there would definitely be consequences. 

[Lord Ratner]

Remember that time Flynn communicated with a Russian government official as part of his upcoming duties and it spawned a 3 year investigation into Russian control of the executive branch?

 

That said, I'm skeptical of anything Woodward says these days, but if anything even remotely approximating "I'll tell you if we are going to attack" was said, an example should be made. Prison would suffice.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, raimius said:

Saying you are going to do something treasonous if something else happens is not the same as commiting treason.  Slow your roll there.

lol what???

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
“Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”

There’s a reason people are criminally convicted for attempting to have sexual relations with minors, or to sell drugs, or to murder someone, but not actually completing the task, it’s called… wait for it… a conspiracy. 

If true, Milley conspired with the Chinese, an enemy of the United Stares, by adhering to them, giving them aid and comfort through a promised advanced warning of military action, and essentially declaring war on the United States by subverting the civil authority which was POTUS Trump.

Having said that, I would say it surpassed conspiracy since he (allegedly) did successfully commit treason by contacting the Chinese and sharing information aiding them without POTUS’ approval.

Edited September 15, 2021 by dogfish78

[Sua Sponte]

31 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Remember that time Flynn communicated with a Russian government official as part of his upcoming duties and it spawned a 3 year investigation into Russian control of the executive branch?

 

That said, I'm skeptical of anything Woodward says these days, but if anything even remotely approximating "I'll tell you if we are going to attack" was said, an example should be made. Prison would suffice.

With a Dem as POTUS? Even if he was charged with anything, Biden would pardon him.

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Remember that time Flynn communicated with a Russian government official as part of his upcoming duties and it spawned a 3 year investigation into Russian control of the executive branch?

 

That said, I'm skeptical of anything Woodward says these days, but if anything even remotely approximating "I'll tell you if we are going to attack" was said, an example should be made. Prison would suffice.

Milley's spokesman Col. Dave Butler just released a statement saying the reports of the phone calls between Milley and China, and the meetings with senior Pentagon officers are true.

Edited September 15, 2021 by torqued

[Pooter]

Yeah it's not a good look for milley for sure. Add this to the laundry list of reasons this guy needs to go. 
 

Having said that, I'm glad someone was thinking about how to mitigate the damage  a desperate and defeated trump could have attempted to do in his final days.  Glad it never came to this but the fact that the CJCS was so worried he thought this was a conversation that needed to happen should tell you all you need to know about trump's mental stability after the election loss. 

[gearhog]

17 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Yeah it's not a good look for milley for sure. Add this to the laundry list of reasons this guy needs to go. 
 

Having said that, I'm glad someone was thinking about how to mitigate the damage  a desperate and defeated trump could have attempted to do in his final days.  Glad it never came to this but the fact that the CJCS was so worried he thought this was a conversation that needed to happen should tell you all you need to know about trump's mental stability after the election loss. 

Milley should go because you think it's not a good look, or because it was wrong? Just want to clarify.

[DirkDiggler]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/milley-chinese-counterpart-phone-calls-senate-testimony

  I would encourage everyone to read the entire article above and not just the headline.  If you believe Fox News reporting, then it doesn't seem like the accounts in Woodward's book are 100% accurate to say the least.  

[ClearedHot]

15 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/milley-chinese-counterpart-phone-calls-senate-testimony

  I would encourage everyone to read the entire article above and not just the headline.  If you believe Fox News reporting, then it doesn't seem like the accounts in Woodward's book are 100% accurate to say the least.  

There is a LOT of spin going on.  Jennifer Griffin has always been a straight shooter, used to see her in five sided building all the time.  So far she is just reporting what they are telling her on the Jt Staff.  This requires a MUCH deeper look. 

What is VERY clear is Milley is the source for at least part of Woodward's book...he was trying to make himself look good (perhaps set up for his next career move), and now it has backfired on him. 

The part with Pelosi is equally troubling.

For all the political theater around Trump trying to keep power, at least form a perception standpoint, it appears a lot of others were actually trying to take power.

[DirkDiggler]

7 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

There is a LOT of spin going on.  Jennifer Griffin has always been a straight shooter, used to see her in five sided building all the time.  So far she is just reporting what they are telling her on the Jt Staff.  This requires a MUCH deeper look. 

What is VERY clear is Milley is the source for at least part of Woodward's book...he was trying to make himself look good (perhaps set up for his next career move), and now it has backfired on him. 

The part with Pelosi is equally troubling.

For all the political theater around Trump trying to keep power, at least form a perception standpoint, it appears a lot of others were actually trying to take power.

Agreed that there's a lot of spin going on.....from both sides.  Last time I checked, even in the military justice system, someone is innocent until proven guilty.  There's a lot of people out in the media and on this forum that are "raging for justice, throw him in prison, execute him!!" before all the facts are in.  Maybe Milley did something illegal, maybe not.  If Senator Cotton is to be believed, he's going to ask Milley in front of Congress in the next couple days.  I'm willing to wait until more data is in before passing judgement over this issue.

  I haven't read the book (or any of Woodward's books for that matter), so it's difficult for me to definitively say or have an opinion that Milley was a primary source; I know you spent time up in the puzzle palace so assuming you'd have more insight into the goings on internal to that building. 

  The most amusing thing to me about this whole story/situation is the different spin from the right and the left.  Woodward's previous books on the Trump administration were pretty heavily denied/disparaged across the right leaning media because they didn't paint the administration in a favorable light.  The left leaning media loved those books for the same reason.  Now along comes the final chapter and people on both sides of the divide are are taking the words in said book as the god's honest truth, but for vastly different reasons.

[ClearedHot]

23 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Agreed that there's a lot of spin going on.....from both sides.  Last time I checked, even in the military justice system, someone is innocent until proven guilty.  There's a lot of people out in the media and on this forum that are "raging for justice, throw him in prison, execute him!!" before all the facts are in.  Maybe Milley did something illegal, maybe not.  If Senator Cotton is to be believed, he's going to ask Milley in front of Congress in the next couple days.  I'm willing to wait until more data is in before passing judgement over this issue.

  I haven't read the book (or any of Woodward's books for that matter), so it's difficult for me to definitively say or have an opinion that Milley was a primary source; I know you spent time up in the puzzle palace so assuming you'd have more insight into the goings on internal to that building. 

  The most amusing thing to me about this whole story/situation is the different spin from the right and the left.  Woodward's previous books on the Trump administration were pretty heavily denied/disparaged across the right leaning media because they didn't paint the administration in a favorable light.  The left leaning media loved those books for the same reason.  Now along comes the final chapter and people on both sides of the divide are are taking the words in said book as the god's honest truth, but for vastly different reasons.

Spot on especially with regard to innocent until proven guilty and Woodward's books.  If only the system has taken the same approach to General Flynn...

I hope Cotton and others can peal back the onion and I think there should be something even more formal with the DOD IG...perhaps a special counsel.  Even if completely innocent and explainable the system and the people need absolute transparency.  Since the beginning we have held civilian rule as a basic tenant and the mere perception of improper military influence over power, nuclear weapons or the rule of law is something that needs a microscope. 

Others have commented on Woodward and his books, obviously he has a halo from the Watergate days but he has indeed become more partisan and INHO sloppy in his older years.   He does seem to find "sources" on the periphery and mainstreams their outlandish claims.  

Milley is clearly a political animal and it is my personal belief that he has leaked some of these and other details.  For the good of the country I hope the rest of the accusations are false, if they are not then it certainly adds even more fuel to the deep state argument and potentially undermines our entire way of life.

[Danger41]

Maybe I’m just overly sensitive but this is the cherry on top of my subterranean morale in the USMIL lately. Wtf is going on!

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/milley-chinese-counterpart-phone-calls-senate-testimony

  I would encourage everyone to read the entire article above and not just the headline.  If you believe Fox News reporting, then it doesn't seem like the accounts in Woodward's book are 100% accurate to say the least.  

Seems like there's no end to the dysfunction.

A quote from your link:

"All calls from the Chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency," Butler said.

And now this:

EXCLUSIVE: Former acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller, who led the Pentagon from the period after the 2020 election through Inauguration Day, said that he "did not and would not ever authorize" Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley to have "secret" calls with his Chinese counterpart, describing the allegations as a "disgraceful and unprecedented act of insubordination," and calling on him to resign "immediately."

In a statement to Fox News, Miller said that the United States Armed Forces, from its inception, has "operated under the inviolable principle of civilian control of the military."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-acting-defense-sec-miller-says-he-did-not-authorize-milley-china-calls-says-he-should-resign

[DirkDiggler]

7 minutes ago, torqued said:

Seems like there's no end to the dysfunction.

A quote from your link:

"All calls from the Chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency," Butler said.

And now this:

EXCLUSIVE: Former acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller, who led the Pentagon from the period after the 2020 election through Inauguration Day, said that he "did not and would not ever authorize" Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley to have "secret" calls with his Chinese counterpart, describing the allegations as a "disgraceful and unprecedented act of insubordination," and calling on him to resign "immediately."

In a statement to Fox News, Miller said that the United States Armed Forces, from its inception, has "operated under the inviolable principle of civilian control of the military."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-acting-defense-sec-miller-says-he-did-not-authorize-milley-china-calls-says-he-should-resign

So who’s telling the truth?

Edited to add:  the news article in question has Fox quoting “sources” that said the calls were not secret, and that there were multiple people in the room including notetakers, State and DoD reps.

Edited September 15, 2021 by DirkDiggler
Additional info

[WAG]

No treason. Admin doesn’t consider China an enemy. 

[HeloDude]

Here’s a quick point worth asking/mentioning:

Hypothetically, if Trump had directed ICBMs to be launched at X (name your country) on 19 Jan 21, would he have been wrong (in terms of not have the power/ability) to do so as the Commander in Chief?  If Milley had discussions with other military officers to ensure this would not have been able to happen without his awareness and/or concurrence then would that not be considered insubordination and worthy of some form of action against him?  Also what if Milley would have attempted to stop Trump’s order?