Covid Injection Tyranny - Share and Discuss

[Negatory]

Also, you guys seem to take specific offense at my "absurd" question about the immorality of contraceptives. Or, as one person put it, the dumbest shit he's ever read on this website.

I assume you also take specific offense at the Catholic church, which is what made me intentionally act that very specific question (lol):

"The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contra­ception is gravely opposed to marital chastity; it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life." - The Vatican, 1997

 

The point of having you guys fall into the trap of damning this "absurd" black and white viewpoint is to demonstrate that morality does have a sliding scale. In the case of Abortion, I respect your opinions on an individual scale, Guardian/FLEA/Bashi/etc., but none of you hold the keys to societal morality. Also, you guys all don't agree with the Catholic Church's black and white stance, so you clearly are on the gradient. None of you, individually, can say the Catholic church is Wrong or that the people who support abortion to 24-28 weeks are wrong. Society as a whole decides that.

 

Now apply the fact that decisions are on a gradient to COVID. Society determines whether something is morally or ethically alright. There is little justification that COVID vaccines cause harm, so there is justification to have COVID vaccine mandates in certain circumstances. For example, the federal government (check).

Edited September 12, 2021 by Negatory

[Negatory]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

It’s weird to me how some people say they are fans of freedom of choice for women. What they really mean is they think that some women should have the right to choose to end the life of another (that’s what terminate means). Even if that child is female. Did that female have the freedoms of choice?

My wife has a uterine horn birth defect where they are so split that they can host individual pregnancies. While both can become pregnant, only one can actually host a viable pregnancy. Carrying a pregnancy in the small, messed up horn, doctors estimated, would result in a 50% chance of 2nd to 3rd term miscarriage, a greater than 50% chance of birth defects, and a 15-20% risk of death for my wife.

My wife got pregnant twice in the wrong horn. We made the choice to terminate those pregnancies before 12 weeks. Were those moral failings? Or was the correct move to force her to carry those children to term with the risks stated above.

I would love for you to address those specific instances.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Negatory

[Guardian]

I’ve already alluded to my opinions. I think abortion is wrong.

Why try to have kids if you know there is a big percentage chance that you will have to abort? I’m sure you know of other options.

[Negatory]

9 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I’ve already alluded to my opinions. I think abortion is wrong.

Why try to have kids if you know there is a big percentage chance that you will have to abort? I’m sure you know of other options.

I respect your opinion. I obviously disagree, but that’s fine.

[ClearedHot]

Just now, Negatory said:

Horrific argument. (Sorry, I had to)

I agree with your premise that you can’t force everyone to take something that will cause harm, but you have to prove the harm. There is almost no proof of any significant harm that the vaccines have or will cause. And they have done significant studies to make sure of this.

If they don’t cause harm, how does your argument fare?

Also your example does not follow your logic. Your logic you initially postulated was, simply:

“If forced harm, regardless of magnitude of harm, then unethical”

But the example you provided was

“If unnecessary, then unethical”

If Bob goes to get his unnecessary vaccine and it doesn’t hurt him, but it helps society in that they don’t have to hire and pay both money and time for 69000 medical waiver reviewers to trudge through paperwork, then it was an overall benefit with no harm. Other than Bobs political feelings.

Oh by the way, that’s why I run the 1.5 miles. Because it doesn’t cause harm. If the PT test was actually a life expectancy altering event, then I would absolutely call it a moral question to unnecessarily require people to get it.

There are a few counter arguments that I am expecting:

1) haven’t you seen the study on teen male myocarditis?

Yes, see the other thread. The study is flawed. There is actually a minor increase in lymph node swelling and cardiac events for society that is being monitored, but those studies resulted in small numbers with huge confidence intervals. Also, they showed about 10 benefits of the shot that were not advertised, but I digress.

2) How do you know that it won’t give us all lasting side effects in 5-10 years?

Because that has never happened before, similar vaccines have been created and have been studied, and virtually all side effects for a vaccine show up within two months. Prove that it can happen.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

If you say Anthrax, be prepared to refute this claim:

“While recent studies have demonstrated the vaccine is highly reactogenic,^[51] and causes motor neuron death in mice,^[52] there is no clear evidence or epidemiological studies on Gulf War veterans linking the vaccine to Gulf War illness. Combining this with the lack of symptoms from current deployments of individuals who have received the vaccine led the Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses to conclude that the vaccine is not a likely cause of Gulf War illness for most ill veterans.“

It wasn't until now that I realized just how far left wack a doodle you really are.  Your argument boils down to "just take the pill citizen unless YOU can prove harm."  Do you put on your Chairman Mao button-down grey jacket when you type these manifestos?  Seriously your beliefs are absolutely freighting.  In essence...screw Bob!  I, like may others, had some nasty side effects from both vaccines, I was down for almost 48 hours the first time and 36 hours the second...too bad Bob, you have full immunity but you gotta feel like shit for a couple days so the leftists feel better about themselves. 

Seriously are you really in the U.S. military?  You allude to his political beliefs when you can PROVE he will have no harm.  I should think that with your thinking we should immediately ban tobacco, alcohol and red meat. Lets have the government issue everyone vegan cud....its for the greater good right?

Your "we have made other vaccines like this argument" is beyond flawed.  mRNA vaccines have been theory for 30 years, practical for a few years but even the most favorable medical literature says we don't fully understand the long-term effects. 

[pawnman]

15 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

It wasn't until now that I realized just how far left wack a doodle you really are.  Your argument boils down to "just take the pill citizen unless YOU can prove harm."  Do you put on your Chairman Mao button-down grey jacket when you type these manifestos?  Seriously your beliefs are absolutely freighting.  In essence...screw Bob!  I, like may others, had some nasty side effects from both vaccines, I was down for almost 48 hours the first time and 36 hours the second...too bad Bob, you have full immunity but you gotta feel like shit for a couple days so the leftists feel better about themselves. 

Seriously are you really in the U.S. military?  You allude to his political beliefs when you can PROVE he will have no harm.  I should think that with your thinking we should immediately ban tobacco, alcohol and red meat. Lets have the government issue everyone vegan cud....its for the greater good right?

Your "we have made other vaccines like this argument" is beyond flawed.  mRNA vaccines have been theory for 30 years, practical for a few years but even the most favorable medical literature says we don't fully understand the long-term effects. 

So... do you feel the same level of angst about, say, fluoride in the tap water? 

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

Fetal viability outside of the womb. Anywhere from 24-28 weeks. Not that that information is going to be useful for this discussion.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to believe that sperm+egg equaling life immediately is the dumbest shit I have ever read on this website. Is it dumb because it shows a black and white argument is dumb? Mission accomplished, brosef.

Hold up, Doctor Abortionology. It is useful. Where did you get those two numbers? Did you make them up? What's all this black and white talk? I was curious as to your arbitrary delineation between "person/not-a-person" and produced this link within 5 seconds:

21 weeks.

https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/worlds-most-premature-baby-who-holds-guinness-world-record-celebrates-first-birthday-2469034

You did seem to indicate you had a deep personal interest in the subject and yet still didn't know the actual fetal viability timeframe. You drew the line, not me.

It begs the question: Do you use the same moral calculus that tells you it's okay to terminate a fetus at 23 weeks... to justify telling someone else what you can force them to inject into their body? If so, it must be quite the empowering feeling. I bet it feels good.

Neg, I know what I'm doing. I drug you into the abortion debate because I knew you couldn't produce an answer without saying something dumb. And that's okay. We all do it. It's also okay to admit there isn't enough information available to tell someone else what they must be forced do with their body.

[Guardian]

I respect your opinion. I obviously disagree, but that’s fine.

I don’t respect your opinion. Only one of these two opinions causes death. There are other ways to responsibly not have children.

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

 

 We made the choice to terminate those pregnancies before 12 weeks.

That's an odd choice of words to highlight in a thread about tyranny while advocating for forced vaccinations.

[Ryder1587]

Oh cool so now we can argue Covid AND abortion in this thread.  If you’ve made more than 2 posts in this thread suggest you stop wasting your time. The other side isn’t listening or changing their opinion.  

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

So... do you feel the same level of angst about, say, fluoride in the tap water? 

To some degree, especially after spending time at Cannon, one of the reasons we went full filtered spring water for all drinking and cooking.  Although I think the history and study of fluoride is a far more established science with many years of study. 

Again, I am not anti-vax...I got the vaccination, so did my wife and ultimately we elected to have our teenager vaccinated.  However, WE made that decision as a family. 

How far do we go with government  directed health care?  For  the greater good shouldn't we all give up red meat, smoking, alcohol?

[gearhog]

Well ain't that some shit.

https://www.newsweek.com/members-congress-staff-exempt-biden-covid-vaccine-mandate-1627859

Rules for thee...

[dream big]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

Well ain't that some shit.

https://www.newsweek.com/members-congress-staff-exempt-biden-covid-vaccine-mandate-1627859

Rules for thee...

This is getting ridiculous, if you’re going to mandate the vaccine then lead by example.  Time to drain the swamp, oh wait…that triggered the establishment and their useful idiots.  My comment applies to both sides of the aisle. 

[Pooter]

The cool part about predicting long term vaccine side effects is this: for some people those effects will manifest in the short term, so we can use that to determine if and what the long term effects will be.

There are no vaccines that exist for which there are long term effects that randomly pop up after a few years, which didn't originally manifest in the short term in some recipients. 
 

In summary, if you are worried about some 10 year-later infertility side effect from the covid shot, you are worrying about nothing. With billions of doses already administered, statistically significant infertility would have already manifested in some people if it was ever going to be a long term problem. The same applies for any other side effect. 

The idea that previously undocumented side effects are likely to show up decades down the road is both scientifically and historically illiterate. 

[FLEA]

37 minutes ago, Pooter said:

The cool part about predicting long term vaccine side effects is this: for some people those effects will manifest in the short term, so we can use that to determine if and what the long term effects will be.

There are no vaccines that exist for which there are long term effects that randomly pop up after a few years, which didn't originally manifest in the short term in some recipients. 
 

In summary, if you are worried about some 10 year-later infertility side effect from the covid shot, you are worrying about nothing. With billions of doses already administered, statistically significant infertility would have already manifested in some people if it was ever going to be a long term problem. The same applies for any other side effect. 

The idea that previously undocumented side effects are likely to show up decades down the road is both scientifically and historically illiterate. 

1.) We can't compare COVID vaccine to other vaccines. It's fundamentally different in chemical structure. 

2.) When people talk about long term side effects they are not talking about suddenly waking up sterile one day. They are talking about more nuanced manifestations. Example: over a 10 year study people who had the Moderna vaccine were twice as likely to develop lung cancer. The problem is, the low risk of COVID means that even a low to moderate risk of a nuanced event like this negates the morality of the vaccine. 

[gearhog]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

In summary, if you are worried about some 10 year-later infertility side effect from the covid shot, you are worrying about nothing. With billions of doses already administered, statistically significant infertility would have already manifested in some people if it was ever going to be a long term problem. The same applies for any other side effect. 

The idea that previously undocumented side effects are likely to show up decades down the road is both scientifically and historically illiterate. 

Complete bullshit. You don't have first hand knowledge of this. You are merely repeating what people with an obvious agenda want you to repeat. Where did you get the information that says if you suggest there are potential long term side effects, that you are scientifically and historically illiterate? You believe it. What's your basis?

As @ClearedHotand @FLEA have said, this is an mRNA vaccine. No other vaccine you have ever taken was an mRNA vaccine. Why are you using data from those to make uniformed generalizations about this one? They work on the body differently. They are two distinct categories of substances.

But what is a vaccine?

The CDC, and now dictionaries, are changing the definition of what the word "vaccine" has been for decades, to further confuse and obfuscate what this one is a supposed to do, because it doesn't do what vaccines traditionally have. They're actually changing what words mean to further this BS you've bought into.

Today: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

Aug 26, 2021: https://web.archive.org/web/20210826113846/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

The mRNA technology was invented by Dr. Robert Malone. Is he scientifically illiterate? If you're trying to be intellectually honest and want to genuinely know the truth, please listen to this podcast with Dr. Malone, evolutionary biologist Dr. Brett Weinstein and Steve Kirsch. I can't embed it here because it was censored from Youtube for challenging the narrative. It's an hour long. The original Dark Horse Podcast is 3.5 hours if you really want to educate yourself. I did it over the course of a few days driving. If you're really short on time, start at 35:30.

This substance is ending up in high concentrations in tissues (such as ovaries) and other parts of the body where it is not supposed to be, so yes, there is a potential for long term complications. If you want to argue that fact, just please educate yourself first, and don't accuse people of being illiterate because they have listened to, and found credence in, both sides of the debate instead of just yours.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/censored-dark-horse-podcast-bret-weinstein-robert-malone-inventor-mrna-vaccine-technology/

Edited September 13, 2021 by torqued

[pilot]

18 hours ago, Negatory said:

My wife has a uterine horn birth defect where they are so split that they can host individual pregnancies. While both can become pregnant, only one can actually host a viable pregnancy. Carrying a pregnancy in the small, messed up horn, doctors estimated, would result in a 50% chance of 2nd to 3rd term miscarriage, a greater than 50% chance of birth defects, and a 15-20% risk of death for my wife.

My wife got pregnant twice in the wrong horn. We made the choice to terminate those pregnancies before 12 weeks. Were those moral failings? Or was the correct move to force her to carry those children to term with the risks stated above.

I would love for you to address those specific instances.

Of the over 600k abortions a year in this country, how many fall under that or other rare instances like that? Carveouts where there is risk like that is one thing, and I don’t know many people who would be opposed to abortion in those circumstances. But using statistically rare circumstances like that to justify mass murder of innocent babies, most of whom don’t fall into rare medical circumstances, is ludicrous.
 

Also, I know you said "before" 12 weeks, but 12 weeks seems like a pretty long time to make the decision, with significant fetal development occurring by that time… “the fetus is now fully formed, with all of the organs, muscles, limbs and bones in place.” It’d be tough for me to murder a baby at that point. But I understand the counter argument of risk to the mother. Not judging. Haven’t been in that situation.

Edited September 13, 2021 by pilot

[Guardian]

Just heard unofficial MAJCOM guidance. 1st refusal = LOR 2nd refusal = article 15. 3rd refusal = get the boot

Get a religious exemption = get the boot for non world wide deployable.

There is no way out of it unless Congress or Supreme Court comes through with a glove save.

For you guys wanting out of your UPT contract, this is the way. However be prepared for less than honorable.

[Bunsen]

21 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

Don’t mind me, just checking in to see if this three way circle jerk of an argument is still going on….oh, it is?  Ok, continue 🍿🍿🍿

Shack, why isn’t this in Squadron Bar?

[Pooter]

8 hours ago, torqued said:

Complete bullshit. You don't have first hand knowledge of this. You are merely repeating what people with an obvious agenda want you to repeat. Where did you get the information that says if you suggest there are potential long term side effects, that you are scientifically and historically illiterate? You believe it. What's your basis?

As @ClearedHotand @FLEA have said, this is an mRNA vaccine. No other vaccine you have ever taken was an mRNA vaccine. Why are you using data from those to make uniformed generalizations about this one? They work on the body differently. They are two distinct categories of substances.

But what is a vaccine?

The CDC, and now dictionaries, are changing the definition of what the word "vaccine" has been for decades, to further confuse and obfuscate what this one is a supposed to do, because it doesn't do what vaccines traditionally have. They're actually changing what words mean to further this BS you've bought into.

Today: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

Aug 26, 2021: https://web.archive.org/web/20210826113846/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

The mRNA technology was invented by Dr. Robert Malone. Is he scientifically illiterate? If you're trying to be intellectually honest and want to genuinely know the truth, please listen to this podcast with Dr. Malone, evolutionary biologist Dr. Brett Weinstein and Steve Kirsch. I can't embed it here because it was censored from Youtube for challenging the narrative. It's an hour long. The original Dark Horse Podcast is 3.5 hours if you really want to educate yourself. I did it over the course of a few days driving. If you're really short on time, start at 35:30.

This substance is ending up in high concentrations in tissues (such as ovaries) and other parts of the body where it is not supposed to be, so yes, there is a potential for long term complications. If you want to argue that fact, just please educate yourself first, and don't accuse people of being illiterate because they have listened to, and found credence in, both sides of the debate instead of just yours.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/censored-dark-horse-podcast-bret-weinstein-robert-malone-inventor-mrna-vaccine-technology/

Apologies for contradicting the podcast gospel. Believe it or not, I'm actually tracking as well. I too have a phone with a spotify subscription and listened when these two went on rogan last week. 
 

My point was never that there are no side effects, or no long term side effects of the covid vaccine. There are. They are already documented and the data set on them grows every day. But they are also exceedingly rare.  And most importantly, they are much, much rarer than the documented side effects of the actual disease. 
 

My point (really the CDCs point) is that long term effects typically don't manifest out of nowhere if they hadn't already manifested in the short term. This holds true across a wide variety of medications and vaccines over decades and decades of study. I did not invent this idea.
 

Now you are right, the covid shot is an mRNA vaccine and is the first of its type. So maybe that means it's such cutting-edge voodoo witchcraft that it goes against all prevailing medical wisdom and us lemmings are all going to develop ass cancer out of nowhere in 20 years. 
 

Or.. probably not. 
 

In the meantime, my risk analysis tells me that I need to be concerned about things that actually exist in the here and now, rather than future hypotheticals. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Pooter

[gearhog]

15 hours ago, Pooter said:

In summary, if you are worried about some 10 year-later infertility side effect from the covid shot, you are worrying about nothing.

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

My point was never that there are no side effects, or no long term side effects of the covid vaccine. There are.

You should choose your words more carefully. When you use absolutes just to try and sound more confident in your position, you stand a much greater chance of contradicting yourself, and losing credibility when you later have to backpedal and explain your position is much more nuanced when called on it.

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

In the meantime, my risk analysis tells me that I need to be concerned about things that actually exist in the here and now, rather than future hypotheticals. 

I have no problem at all with you doing your own personal risk analysis. Do what you want.

But, do not apply your risk analysis to me because my personal analysis says deteriorating freedoms and liberties which allow us to be able to have this discussion in the first place is more of a risk than either COVID or the vaccine.

Edited September 13, 2021 by torqued

[bfargin]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

.....

In the meantime, my risk analysis tells me that I need to be concerned about things that actually exist in the here and now, rather than future hypotheticals. 

Not a chess player I take it.

[gearhog]

19 minutes ago, dudebro said:

While crewdawgs are debating the merits of the shot efficacy as if they're biochemists, nobody seems to care that the govt wants to literally mandate what you will inject in your bodies and the precedent this sets for future erosion of fundamental liberties. Lib sheeple can scream Qanon, orange man bad, racist etc but one day they'll wake up and wonder what happened to their freedom when it's a restriction they don't agree with next time around. 

Thanks for speaking up. More should. You reminded me of this quote.

 

[BashiChuni]

why is congress exempt from the vax mandate for federal employees?

[herkbier]

52 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

why is congress exempt from the vax mandate for federal employees?

Have you been living under a rock? Don’t you know the perk of being elected to represent your fellow citizens is: rules for thee, not for me.

just kidding, I know you know. We all know, but apparently don’t give a shit.