Covid Injection Tyranny - Share and Discuss

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, pawnman said:

Snowden didn't intend to stay in Russia. He was enroute to Ecuador. The US government revoked his passport before he landed in Russia, stranding him there.

I'm not saying he did the right thing, but I have a lot more anger at a system that enables the government to listen to every phone call, read every text, and monitor every credit card transaction than I do at the guy who told us about the system.

Bro, what the NSA was doing was keeping you and your family safe. Trust them, they're the experts. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by FLEA

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Oh, right. I know every time I draw a line from the US to Ecuador, it crosses through Russia. Someone get me a map. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Everything has a justification, reason, and excuse. "Oh, see, I was on my way to Ecuador, then the big bad US revoked my passport. Darn. Guess I'll just have to spend the next forever hangin' with my boy Putin."

We, as military pilots, have a lot of power. That doesn't mean we get to go hog wild. You know there are multiple checks and balances at multiple levels, and in addition to that, people can and are held accountable. Surely you have the imagination necessary to understand that those same checks and balances exist inside the intel community, right?

BTW, that system helps protect us. Or do you honestly think its main function is to keep you, Joe The Taxpayer, down?

He didn't leave from the US.

Boy, have you swallowed the big government lines.  Again...I'm way more mad that a government that claims to represent its citizens has seized so much power over such a small amount of risk than I am that someone exposed that government's actions.

I am not at all convinced that this system makes us safer. At all.  Didn't catch the Las Vegas shooter. Didn't stop the Boston Marathon bombing. Near as I can tell, it's a bunch of security theater.  And to inch us back to the topic...you don't think the government will turn those same tools on people who oppose vaccine mandates (for example)?  It baffles me that you support the idea of an all-seeing eye for government while railing against things like militias and Trump supporters getting labeled as terrorists. Where do you think the government is going to turn those tools next?

Edited September 23, 2021 by pawnman

[gearhog]

11 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Perhaps my previous post was incomplete. That said, I did say "death penalty" which presupposes due process and a trial IMO. If I had said "hellfired" I'd be on board with you.

I don't advocate that he is summarily executed without due process. Of course he should be tried. But let's also not stretch the case either and hold any pretense about what Snowden did. He publicly admits to doing everything. I don't think you need any over-wrought A -> B -> C -> Death for Snowden logic to get there. Doing what he did amounts to treason in and of itself:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim

Did Bradley Manning deserve the death penalty - certainly not. He's an idiot, and what he did was foolish and I believe came from a place of honest concern. What Snowden did was calculated and executed in precisely such a manner as to undermine our belief in institutions. It was done with the exact purpose to cause people who don't know any better to draw a moral equivalence between the United States and our adversaries. Citizens who think that being a superpower means we don't ever have to get our hands dirty. It's design was to exploit the average American's naiveté about the world, and it continues to do so.

Also, the damage was and IS orders of magnitude greater.

Got it. And he does admit to doing everything. The "Snowden is a hero/traitor" is subject I can't argue well because I can't first win either side of the debate in my own head.

On one hand, he lied, he stole, he gave up state secrets,  he knowingly broke the law, and he fully expected to face the consequences. He made that choice. We can't let that go unpunished, lest we have any jerkoff with classified information and a bone to pick with the government going public.

On the other, I remember the ideas that the government has the technology and desire to listen to and track any American citizen domestically being the regarded as crazy conspiracy theories prior to Snowden. The problem being, he couldn't reveal the ways in which the intelligence communities were violating the trust of the American public without also revealing our capabilities against foreign adversaries. These programs were apparently created and executed with no distinction between the two.

Now that our government is suggesting large swaths of the American public are potential domestic terrorists, and therefore enemies, I think it's important to know how our intelligence communities intend to go after those people. I understand being a superpower is a messy business, but there is significant potential that power to be abused. In the end, I lean toward believing we should remain an accountable democracy and sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Edited September 23, 2021 by torqued

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Boy, have you swallowed the big government lines.  Again...I'm way more mad that a government that claims to represent its citizens has seized so much power over such a small amount of risk than I am that someone exposed that government's actions.

I am not at all convinced that this system makes us safer. At all. 

The most ironic post I've ever seen on this forum.

To be fair, I wholeheartedly agree with you. 1000%!

 

[glockenspiel]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

He didn't leave from the US.

Boy, have you swallowed the big government lines.  Again...I'm way more mad that a government that claims to represent its citizens has seized so much power over such a small amount of risk than I am that someone exposed that government's actions.

I am not at all convinced that this system makes us safer. At all.  Didn't catch the Las Vegas shooter. Didn't stop the Boston Marathon bombing. Near as I can tell, it's a bunch of security theater.  And to inch us back to the topic...you don't think the government will turn those same tools on people who oppose vaccine mandates (for example)?  It baffles me that you support the idea of an all-seeing eye for government while railing against things like militias and Trump supporters getting labeled as terrorists. Where do you think the government is going to turn those tools next?

Pawn, you are a proving to be a beacon of hope this morning…..you are at the five yard line— now just use the same logic with COVID vaccines mandates.

[Pooter]

Much like Biden's heinously botched Afghanistan withdrawal, no one should be mad at *what* Snowden did, they should be mad at *how* he did it. 
 

Based on what buddies of mine in the three letter world have said, my understanding of his "whistleblowing" is that it was an indiscriminate data dump that compromised all sorts of unrelated parts of the intel community. 

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Pawn, you are a proving to be a beacon of hope this morning…..you are at the five yard line— now just use the same logic with COVID vaccines mandates.

I'm not for mandates nationwide, where government agents go door to door with dart guns vaccinating every American. 

I do support vaccine mandates in fields where it makes sense - military, health care, airline travel, school teachers...probably a couple I'm missing. 

I'd prefer if the person making my food at the local Applebee's were vaccinated, but mandating it for every restaurant employee seems like a stretch. But I absolutely support corporations' right to make vaccines a condition for employment.

 

[Pooter]

6 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Pawn, you are a proving to be a beacon of hope this morning…..you are at the five yard line— now just use the same logic with COVID vaccines mandates.

Was he ever arguing in favor of mandates for the general public? Has anyone done that on this thread?

Arguing that vaccines are safe and effective ≠ advocating for a mandate

Vaccine mandate for active duty military ≠ mandate for the entire general public

[glockenspiel]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm not for mandates nationwide, where government agents go door to door with dart guns vaccinating every American. 

I do support vaccine mandates in fields where it makes sense - military, health care, airline travel, school teachers...probably a couple I'm missing. 

 

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

Was he ever arguing in favor of mandates for the general public? Has anyone done that on this thread?

Arguing that vaccines are safe and effective ≠ advocating for a mandate

Vaccine mandate for active duty military ≠ mandate for the entire general public

I forgot that teachers, healthcare workers, airline travelers and the “couple” million of people you are missing are not “general population”. So you are for a sort-of mandate, which is totally different than a full mandate. What’s the difference between a nation wide mandate and requiring vaccination to travel? To go to school? To go to work? Less people will travel on airlines I guess? More  vaccine fraud? More people will homeschool their kids? People will leave their jobs?

The fact that you admittedly are “missing a couple” groups where the vaccine mandate “makes sense” is proof that your threshold is gray and if implemented will likely be determined by some person in an office building that doesn’t care about the individuals health nearly as much as that individual cares about theirs (or at least the individual ought to care). Bottom line is free countries don’t entertain this types of ideas.

for the record, also against blow darts- though the blow dart scene from get smart comes to mind. 

[Prozac]

59 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

Bottom line is free countries don’t entertain this types of ideas.

Except they do.  There have been vaccine mandates for schoolchildren for decades.  There have been vaccine mandates for the military for just as long.  Employers in various industries including airlines have required certain vaccines for years.  So, sorry, but you're clearly wrong here.  Public health requirements have existed without major issues in free and open societies for a very long time.  They are not mutually exclusive concepts.  

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, glockenspiel said:

I forgot that teachers, healthcare workers, airline travelers and the “couple” million of people you are missing are not “general population”. So you are for a sort-of mandate, which is totally different than a full mandate. What’s the difference between a nation wide mandate and requiring vaccination to travel? To go to school? To go to work? Less people will travel on airlines I guess? More  vaccine fraud? More people will homeschool their kids? People will leave their jobs?

The fact that you admittedly are “missing a couple” groups where the vaccine mandate “makes sense” is proof that your threshold is gray and if implemented will likely be determined by some person in an office building that doesn’t care about the individuals health nearly as much as that individual cares about theirs (or at least the individual ought to care). Bottom line is free countries don’t entertain this types of ideas.

for the record, also against blow darts- though the blow dart scene from get smart comes to mind. 

Weird, it's almost like policy decisions exist in gray areas with nuanced details that need to be considered to ensure the policy actually works. 

Plenty of jobs subject people to background checks, drug tests, and vaccination requirements. That's an employer's prerogative much like it's your prerogative to go work somewhere else if those conditions are too onerous for you.

 

 

Alternatively.. GUBMENT BETTER NOT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

[glockenspiel]

26 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Except they do.  There have been vaccine mandates for schoolchildren for decades.  There have been vaccine mandates for the military for just as long.  Employers in various industries including airlines have required certain vaccines for years.  So, sorry, but you're clearly wrong here.  Public health requirements have existed without major issues in free and open societies for a very long time.  They are not mutually exclusive concepts.  

I’d like to see where a 10 month old vaccine was mandated by the federal government, or one that had almost no effect in children, or one that is not a sterilizing vaccine (sterilizing from the disease)….
 

I have plenty of friends who weren’t vaccinated and were able to attend public school.
 

National vaccine mandates are the idea I am against and a free society would not have them. It’s all too heavy handed and denies natural immunity. If the vaccine is so great why wouldn’t people voluntarily take? Why would the government even have to force it on people? Or are they all too dumb and can’t interpret the data like the experts can?

[DirkDiggler]

[Darth]

15 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

This.....

[Guest]

I am pleasantly satisfied with the amount of discourse my thread has brought. I extend a friendly hand to @pawnman for showing a glimmer of hope in this dark, dark, Department of "Defense".

@DirkDigglerContinues to post worthless boomier-tier content as usual. Who can help my posts get to his Metamucil inbox?

 

@Prozac @Pooter

Why should people in certain professions be forced to take a drug? If the drug works (for other people), what do those other people have to worry about if those certain professionals don't also take the drug?

[Guardian]

I am pleasantly satisfied with the amount of discourse my thread has brought. I extend a friendly hand to [mention=3237]pawnman[/mention] for showing a glimmer of hope in this dark, dark, Department of "Defense".
[mention=8587]DirkDiggler[/mention]Continues to post worthless boomier-tier content as usual. Who can help my posts get to his Metamucil inbox?
 
[mention=6641]Prozac[/mention] [mention=80283]Pooter[/mention]
Why should people in certain professions be forced to take a drug? If the drug works (for other people), what do those other people have to worry about if those certain professionals don't also take the drug?

What’s a Metamucil inbox?

[FUSEPLUG]

5 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

Why should people in certain professions be forced to take a drug? If the drug works (for other people), what do those other people have to worry about if those certain professionals don't also take the drug?

While I disagree with your delivery at times, I agree with your message. 

After my last two days as a traditional Guardsman, I’ve never been so disturbed by the state of our military leadership (to include my podunk state).  I’d love to discuss it with them, but they’ve made it all but clear there will be no discussion. I appreciate seeing both sides of the argument here on BODN, but it’s obvious we’re  going down a dark hole. 
 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, FUSEPLUG said:

While I disagree with your delivery at times, I agree with your message. 

After my last two days as a traditional Guardsman, I’ve never been so disturbed by the state of our military leadership (to include my podunk state).  I’d love to discuss it with them, but they’ve made it all but clear there will be no discussion. I appreciate seeing both sides of the argument here on BODN, but it’s obvious we’re  going down a dark hole. 
 

Thank you, I appreciate your honesty 👍🏼. I have enough formal / expansive writing in my normal life's jobs that when I come here to this forum I try to let loose and say it how it is. A problem many commissioned officers fail to understand is that they equate having discussion about unconstitutional / immoral / unethical / illegal orders as failing to obey a commander's order. It's black and white to them. Thus we've wound up in the place we are because too many officers value muh pension / "defense" contracting jobs post-retirement over having a cohesive functioning nation for their CHILDREN'S CHILDREN.

[pilot]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DqZQNMGgd5qEB9LaNTU2_QXGNBACM00l/view
 

Army flight doc just threw a vax grenade. 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

To be honest, an Army flight doc writing a whistleblower thing about side effects and ingredients of a vaccine doesn’t impress me very much. I’m not saying I’m smarter about vaccines, but I don’t think flight docs really have a more qualified opinion than any other medical professional. I can’t forget that my flight doc misdiagnosed my knee pain as tendinitis when it was actually a bone tumor. 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

Sorta like if a gym teacher at an elementary school wrote a whistle blower thing about the school lunch program. 

[busdriver]

Her credentials sound like they're in line with the topic. However, she bit off on the polyethyleneglycol is anti-freeze thing. The poly part makes a big difference.

Ethylene glycol kills your pets.

Polyethyleneglycol is in your toothpaste.

Different than injecting it, but it's not anti-freeze.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LumberjackAxe said:

To be honest, an Army flight doc writing a whistleblower thing about side effects and ingredients of a vaccine doesn’t impress me very much. I’m not saying I’m smarter about vaccines, but I don’t think flight docs really have a more qualified opinion than any other medical professional. I can’t forget that my flight doc misdiagnosed my knee pain as tendinitis when it was actually a bone tumor. 

It appears to me the flight physician is whistleblowing her and other colleagues' observations of what the covid "vaccine" is doing, more-so than essentially "diagnosing" exactly what the "vaccine" is doing (as the physician with your bone tumor did incorrectly). I too have a healthy skepticism of physicians to begin with as I also have been ran through the wringer with false diagnoses. I know one thing for certain is true in this world, you have to trust your literal senses, eyes/ears/gut, all that stuff. I've had family members die days after getting the "vaccine" and I have many friends who say they've had the same experience with some of the their family too. I would hope whatever court she petitioned this motion too rules in favor of halting the "vaccine" until more research can be done.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

Her credentials sound like they're in line with the topic. However, she bit off on the polyethyleneglycol is anti-freeze thing. The poly part makes a big difference.

Ethylene glycol kills your pets.

Polyethyleneglycol is in your toothpaste.

Different than injecting it, but it's not anti-freeze.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

I thought so too, as anti-freeze kills all, while polyethylene glycol (PEG) is very bad only for some people (to my understanding). Would be interested to see further research on PEG.

[pilot]

5 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

To be honest, an Army flight doc writing a whistleblower thing about side effects and ingredients of a vaccine doesn’t impress me very much. I’m not saying I’m smarter about vaccines, but I don’t think flight docs really have a more qualified opinion than any other medical professional. I can’t forget that my flight doc misdiagnosed my knee pain as tendinitis when it was actually a bone tumor. 

I’m not as focused on the credentials or her position as much as I am the content of the affidavit. The credentials and position really only matter because she’s ostensibly not just some lunatic anti-vaxxer extremist who read some conspiracy theory about these vaccines on facebook. This is a medical professional, educated on the science and the relevant topics, with nothing to gain, who has listed both experiences and the science backing her claims and making some interesting points.
 

But sure, kinda like a gym teacher whistleblowing about school lunch. And very similar to a misdiagnosis of tendinitis for a bone tumor. Because one flight doc misdiagnosing something that is exceedingly rare like a bone tumor that presents similarly to something a lot more common means all flight docs aren’t good doctors and not qualified to give medical opinions (or in your case, not qualified to be listened to about them, anyway, because of your past misdiagnosis). Sure. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by pilot