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Prozac Gray Beard

Prozac

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:


We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy.


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He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎

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08Dawg
08Dawg

Notice how you’re the only one responding to your own thread?

SpeedOfHeat
SpeedOfHeat

One that doesn't require you to wear a face mask to protect you from the virus that you just got 3 inoculations against? I mean, really think about that.  They're telling people with 3 shots over

frog
frog

Somewhere on the internet, there is a forum of virologists arguing about how to fly fighter aircraft. 

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FLEA Gray Beard

FLEA

Posted
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:


We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy.


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They don't have to update the policy if there is concern. Have you ever staffed a memo like this? The attorneys just provide an opinion, and then in something contentious like this, they will also investigate how legally defensible they think a policy might be. Sometimes they'll tell you the policy might be difficult to defend but you can implement it anyway because by the time it takes to litigate you may already meet intent through compliance. It's much more complicated than "a JAG says it's ok" and even if the JAG gives sound or unsound legal advice, it doesn't absolve a commander of his decision. 

For example, I'm 99% certain there was probably a JAG in the TOC when an order was given to pre-judiciously off a US citizen, but you saw how well that one aged. 

Bottom line, the JAG doesn't make an order legal. He just offers his best legal advice. The legality of an order has to be determined by a court. 

So knowing all of this, I have to examine the context. The DoD JAG that reviewed this has probably been all over the military. He is not a specialist and has worked every aspect of law as it pertains to the AF. His expertise on pharmesuiticals is probably shallow. He needs to defend that policy now against a team of civil attorneys who are experts in medical malpractice, civil liberties, pharmesuiticals, etc... 

He may win, there is a good chance he will. But ultimately it's up to a court to decide. 

 

Put another way, there is also a team of attorneys that have reviewed this, and they do believe the DoD should be concerned about losing. 

 

Edited by FLEA
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pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Prozac said:

He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎

It's amazing how fast he moved from epidemiologist to chemical engineer to religious scholar to legal expert.

glockenspiel Crew Dawg

glockenspiel

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Pooter said:

Actually, we've heard the reasons and they're hot garbage. So all that's left is to assume you're buying into the current political food fight and hanging your hat on whatever the reason of the day is. 
 

But go ahead and keep thinking you're some kind of edgy free thinker. You and *statistically speaking* about 100 million of the least educated people in the country. 

Who gets the “political” win? I don’t get it. Love the ad-hominem! That’s a trusty tool when you run out of empathy to have a real conversation.
 

We are concerned about safety signals, the fda following the their own rules and the lack of transparency between big pharma and the end customer. So edgy! 


If everything is political, then the only truth is orthodoxy! 
 

God speed pooter- or is it fauci speed now? 

M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, pawnman said:

And putting up zero fuss about getting an annual flu shot.

I mean, if the flu vaccine was really effective, we'd only need one as a kid, right?

C'mon, Pawn, I know you're smarter than this...

M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:


We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy.

Have you ever dealt with lawyers before?

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M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

Who gets the “political” win? I don’t get it. Love the ad-hominem! That’s a trusty tool when you run out of empathy to have a real conversation.
 

We are concerned about safety signals, the fda following the their own rules and the lack of transparency between big pharma and the end customer. So edgy! 


If everything is political, then the only truth is orthodoxy! 
 

God speed pooter- or is it fauci speed now? 

Not everything political involves a "win," sometimes it's just about the fight.

If you have any questions, go ask Nancy...

Lord Ratner Gray Beard

Lord Ratner

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Pooter said:

It's blatantly political because each time the quoted "reason" for not getting the shot falls flat on its face, or becomes invalidated, the whole crowd migrates to a new reason.

Now we're stuck on "EUA vs comirnaty" despite them being completely identical from a chemical, safety, and effectiveness perspective. The fact that people are hanging their hat on branding semantics and the specific wordings of military orders tells me their vaccine refusal is grounded completely in ideology.

I would bet everything I own that the moment appropriately branded "comirnaty" shots become widely available, people will have magically found a new reason not to get it. 
 

And anecdotally, everyone I know refusing the shot were the annoying social media right wing political crusader "gubment can't tell me what to do" blowhard types before all of this started. But maybe you're right and they all suddenly found Jesus and/or became a FDA branding experts in the last few months purely by coincidence. 

As long as you also admit that the entire decision to mandate the vaccinations is equally political, I'll accept your premise.

But if you think the mandates are somehow apolitical (justified using illogical reasons that don't hold up to reality) while those against the mandate are political (justifying their stance using illogical reasons that don't hold up to reality), then I'd say you are throwing some pretty big stones from a glass house.

 

And with omicron, the mandates got even sillier.

Lord Ratner Gray Beard

Lord Ratner

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Prozac said:

He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎

Tell me you've never been involved in a legal battle without telling me you've never been involved in a legal battle

waveshaper Gray Beard

waveshaper

Posted
Posted

Here's the latest: 'Airmen Have Five Days to Get Immunized After Vaccine Exemption Is Denied or They Face Punishment, Air Force Says | Military.com'

'So far, the service has approved 1,133 medical exemptions, 184 administrative exemptions, but no religious exemptions for its active-duty force of about 326,000, the service said Tuesday. About 4,756 active-duty airmen are awaiting decisions on religious exemptions requests'.

 

TheNewGazmo Flight Lead

TheNewGazmo

Posted
Posted
Here's the latest: 'Airmen Have Five Days to Get Immunized After Vaccine Exemption Is Denied or They Face Punishment, Air Force Says | Military.com'
'So far, the service has approved 1,133 medical exemptions, 184 administrative exemptions, but no religious exemptions for its active-duty force of about 326,000, the service said Tuesday. About 4,756 active-duty airmen are awaiting decisions on religious exemptions requests'.
 
So should they remove that "Religious Freedom" CBT from MyLearning now or wait a bit?
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TheNewGazmo Flight Lead

TheNewGazmo

Posted
Posted
I'm sticking with my "annual shot" prediction.


If Pfizer could only make something I could sprinkle on my Cheerios every morning... then maybe, just maybe we could beat this thing.
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Day Man Gray Beard

Day Man

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

If Pfizer could only make something I could sprinkle on my Cheerios every morning... then maybe, just maybe we could beat this thing.

be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them :beer: 

Edited by Day Man
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glockenspiel Crew Dawg

glockenspiel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Day Man said:

be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them :beer: 

Good analogy! Just like the seatbelt one! Seatbelts have been used by humans for decades, Cheerios have been eaten for decades and so have mRNA vaccines …. Oh wait.

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Sua Sponte Gray Beard

Sua Sponte

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Day Man said:

be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them :beer: 

Yeah, but Cheerios are FDA approved…

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Day Man Gray Beard

Day Man

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Yeah, but Cheerios are FDA approved…

when Cheerios were new people didn't trust them, but the govt is in big cereal's pocket and added grain to the food pyramid (which used to be a pie but was changed for obvious reasons)

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