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Pooter Gray Beard

Pooter

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

This is categorically false.

I agree with the theme of your post, but are you serious with this? Dude, there is no set time limit regarding when a latent effect may or may not show up and under what circumstances or conditions or sub populations. That's not to say it's not a poor excuse to avoid the vaccine (in the military), but it is a valid concern nonetheless.

There actually is significant study on this particular point.  BLUF: serious side effects historically manifest in the short term if at all.  So the idea that a side effect would not present in the short term after billions of doses over a year and a half, and then magically spring into existence 10 years from now doesn't make much sense historically or scientifically.


"Going back at least as far as the polio vaccine, which was widely released to the public in the 1960s, we’ve never seen a vaccination with long-term side effects, meaning side effects that occur several months or years after injection.

And, in every vaccine available to us, side effects — including rare but serious side effects — develop within six to eight weeks of injection."

 

Source:

https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects
 

 

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08Dawg
08Dawg

Notice how you’re the only one responding to your own thread?

SpeedOfHeat
SpeedOfHeat

One that doesn't require you to wear a face mask to protect you from the virus that you just got 3 inoculations against? I mean, really think about that.  They're telling people with 3 shots over

frog
frog

Somewhere on the internet, there is a forum of virologists arguing about how to fly fighter aircraft. 

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ViperMan Gray Beard

ViperMan

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Pooter said:

"Going back at least as far as the polio vaccine, which was widely released to the public in the 1960s, we’ve never seen a vaccination with long-term side effects, meaning side effects that occur several months or years after injection.

And, in every vaccine available to us, side effects — including rare but serious side effects — develop within six to eight weeks of injection."

Source:

https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects

Confirm all those previous studies cited are in reference to mRNA vaccines / therapeutics? Oh, they aren't? So we're applying a meta analysis of apples to oranges. Ok 👍. Just so I'm clear.

Edited by ViperMan
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pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Confirm all those previous studies cited are in reference to mRNA vaccines / therapeutics? Oh, they aren't? So we're applying a meta analysis of apples to oranges. Ok 👍. Just so I'm clear.

So get the J&J shot. It's not mRNA.

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Negatory Gray Beard

Negatory

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So get the J&J shot. It's not mRNA.

That's unironically a good point. The "there's not enough data" argument has very little evidence behind it. I think getting away from feelings-based arguments is in everyone's best interest.

DosXX Crew Dawg

DosXX

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, pawnman said:

So get the J&J shot. It's not mRNA.

In before the goalpost shift to religious exemption argument 

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bennynova Flight Lead

bennynova

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, DosXX said:

In before the goalpost shift to religious exemption argument 

J and J also didn’t get shutdown for blood clots or other complications...so it has that going for it.

pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

There it is, the overstep. Definitely a troll. You had me for a while, well done 😂🤣

On the contrary, it's exactly what I predicted would happen. A lot of bluster, but that folks would get the shot before losing their cushy military paychecks.

Prozac Gray Beard

Prozac

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

DB426502-06B6-4DE5-8F77-F55C3DAA9028.jpeg

Cool.
 

1. As a majority of the population is vaccinated, it makes sense that a majority of cases of any stripe will be among the vaccinated. Example: if 95 out of 100 people are vaccinated and 10 of that 100 get Covid, and 8 out of that 10 are fully vaccinated, what does that prove related to vaccine effectiveness? A: Jack shit. 

2: Does your “evidence” factor in issues like who is actually being tested for the Omicron variant? Is it more likely to show up in populations like international travelers who are far more likely to be vaccinated in the first place? Is it more likely to show up amongst people who can be bothered to get tested vs. the “mild flu” crowd? There are literally dozens of variables that need to be accounted for before we come to the absurd conclusion that being vaccinated actually increases your chances of becoming infected. 
 

BL: The stat you posted is meaningless and stupid. 

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glockenspiel Crew Dawg

glockenspiel

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Cool.
 

1. As a majority of the population is vaccinated, it makes sense that a majority of cases of any stripe will be among the vaccinated. Example: if 95 out of 100 people are vaccinated and 10 of that 100 get Covid, and 8 out of that 10 are fully vaccinated, what does that prove related to vaccine effectiveness? A: Jack shit. 

2: Does your “evidence” factor in issues like who is actually being tested for the Omicron variant? Is it more likely to show up in populations like international travelers who are far more likely to be vaccinated in the first place? Is it more likely to show up amongst people who can be bothered to get tested vs. the “mild flu” crowd? There are literally dozens of variables that need to be accounted for before we come to the absurd conclusion that being vaccinated actually increases your chances of becoming infected. 
 

BL: The stat you posted is meaningless and stupid. 

I agree Prozac, most covid stats reported on the sensational news outlets are farts in the wind (both sides). but how come all of a sudden you are into looking for possible biases in statistics? 

Pooter Gray Beard

Pooter

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Confirm all those previous studies cited are in reference to mRNA vaccines / therapeutics? Oh, they aren't? So we're applying a meta analysis of apples to oranges. Ok 👍. Just so I'm clear.

More like red apples to green apples. It's still a treatment designed to elicit an immune response to train your body to better fight off a pathogen. It uses a different mechanic than other types of vaccines, of which there are many. Billions of doses have been administered worldwide without a statistically significant serious adverse effect manifesting in a year and a half.

mRNA technology is well understood and was studied for decades which is a huge part of why we saw a vaccine hit the market in under a year.

So what about any of that makes you think think specifically just the new covid shots would suddenly defy all conventional vaccine wisdom?

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MCO Flight Lead

MCO

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, passingtime69 said:


THIS. anyone making a fuss about being worried or how threatening variants are or the spread or the efficacy of s vaccine preventing spread blah blah blah. - ing dumb.


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I mean the families of the 2000 people that died of COVID today in the US might disagree, but if you mean that we may be done treating it like a pandemic and just accept a couple thousand deaths a day that may be true.

i just think it’s dumb my two options according to most here and the news are to completely lockdown scared and cause everything that comes with that, or completely ignore it and claim I’m not in the target population I don’t care and cause everything that comes with that. And if you end up in the middle somewhere you are obviously in the other side of the debate and can’t think for yourself and are just a pawn for “the other side”. This is why when I see people saying “ItS NoT PoLiTiCaL” for the most part I don’t believe them.

Edited by MCO
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BashiChuni Gray Beard

BashiChuni

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Cool.
 

1. As a majority of the population is vaccinated, it makes sense that a majority of cases of any stripe will be among the vaccinated. Example: if 95 out of 100 people are vaccinated and 10 of that 100 get Covid, and 8 out of that 10 are fully vaccinated, what does that prove related to vaccine effectiveness? A: Jack shit. 

2: Does your “evidence” factor in issues like who is actually being tested for the Omicron variant? Is it more likely to show up in populations like international travelers who are far more likely to be vaccinated in the first place? Is it more likely to show up amongst people who can be bothered to get tested vs. the “mild flu” crowd? There are literally dozens of variables that need to be accounted for before we come to the absurd conclusion that being vaccinated actually increases your chances of becoming infected. 
 

BL: The stat you posted is meaningless and stupid. 

The part about mild symptoms in all vaxed and non vaxed is not meaningless. This variant is harmless. 

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ViperMan Gray Beard

ViperMan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Pooter said:

More like red apples to green apples. It's still a treatment designed to elicit an immune response to train your body to better fight off a pathogen. It uses a different mechanic than other types of vaccines, of which there are many. Billions of doses have been administered worldwide without a statistically significant serious adverse effect manifesting in a year and a half.

mRNA technology is well understood and was studied for decades which is a huge part of why we saw a vaccine hit the market in under a year.

So what about any of that makes you think think specifically just the new covid shots would suddenly defy all conventional vaccine wisdom?

I don't think it will surprise us, but that's like, my opinion. I think it is an unknown, and that people's strongly held positions on these matters is unfounded. I mean people are certain - certain - that there is not going to be a latent side affect. That's cool, and that's the camp I'm mostly in, but I'm not about to say I guarantee there won't be, or that these mRNA vaccines are so similar to other vaccines that we can even begin to say that. The bottom line is that we don't know, and had we been so certain of this technology before this pandemic struck, we'd have already had a spread of mRNA vaccines on the street - but we all know we didn't, and arguments to the contrary beg the question. These vaccines are the first in their category.

All that is to say this: I think arguments that rest on someone else's dictate about a medical treatment you should get are null right out the gate. You are the only person that gets to determine medical treatments for you. So all the back-and-forth I read on this thread about Dr. X or M.D. Quaqmire having the opinion that I "should" or "must" get the vaccine I really just roll my eyes at. In my world, spite is a perfectly acceptable reason for not taking a vaccine, and it requires no justification beyond, or even to that standard. Don't want to get it because you're a contrarian? Fine by me. Just don't come hat in hand when you get COVID and wind up dying. Anyway, that's my position on civilian mandates. If you're in the military, you don't get a say. Take the shot or get out. I don't think there should be exceptions for individuals in the military for anything, including religious reasons.

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BashiChuni Gray Beard

BashiChuni

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Negatory said:

Hope so, but we probably need to wait and see. If you remember, this is what everyone said back in 2020 as well.

 

466F9032-C327-4EA3-AAE1-97372B2E17BB.thumb.jpeg.73869d453cc8785e2d170448443af6d0.jpeg

That article isn’t wrong. Most are mild. 

Negatory Gray Beard

Negatory

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, ViperMan said:

In my world, spite is a perfectly acceptable reason for not taking a vaccine, and it requires no justification beyond, or even to that standard.

Cool. Always nice to be reminded of why society is ultimately going to fall apart.

You think in the golden ages of America people said stuff like this? I’m all for people having informed opinions and not getting vaccinated, but supporting people just being assholes is stupid.

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M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted

First members of military are discharged for refusing COVID vaccine

The Air Force has discharged 27 service members for refusing to receive a COVID vaccine, marking the first service members to be involuntarily discharged for balking the rule.

A spokesperson for the Air Force said the 27 active duty members discharged received counseling about the vaccines, and when they still refused, commanders made the decision to discharge them for refusing to comply with the Pentagon's vaccine rule, a lawful order. 

All 27 have been in the Air Force for less than six years and may have had additional reasons for their discharge but refusal to get a COVID vaccine was one of the reasons for the discharge... (full story at title link)

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