Covid Injection Tyranny - Share and Discuss

[brickhistory]

Simply doesn't matter.  If he(assuming) "sincerely believes" this, then DoD/USAF's own rules state he should be granted the accomodation.

Unless they bow to political pressure.

Color me shocked.

Likewise at those who scoff at such held beliefs.  I pity any subordinates who came to you for help.

You don't have to agree with those beliefs, but to simply toss them aside says much.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, brickhistory said:

Simply doesn't matter.  If he(assuming) "sincerely believes" this, then DoD/USAF's own rules state he should be granted the accomodation.

Unless they bow to political pressure.

Color me shocked.

Likewise at those who scoff at such held beliefs.  I pity any subordinates who came to you for help.

You don't have to agree with those beliefs, but to simply toss them aside says much.

What people often miss is that accommodation may well be separating from the service. 

[GoodSplash9]

5 hours ago, MCO said:

If you refused every other vaccine for similar reasons then I think your argument is valid. If this is the only vaccine you have had an issue with I think your argument is much weaker.

I addressed that in my RA with a whole page. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and supreme court case Frazee v. Illinois clearly establish legally that there is no denominational or previous track record metric for establishing that someone has a sincerely held religious belief. Like alot of people, I had no idea that vaccines were routinely developed, researched, tested, and grown/produced using aborted fetal stem cells. I can't go back in time, just apply my beliefs now and in the future. I won't be taking any vaccines in the future involved with aborted fetal stem cells, but the RNA/DNA is also a no-go for me. I wouldn't say it is a "weak" argument.

The real question for the air force is the whether or not the opportunity cost of approving my RA and keeping the leadership/aviation/mission benefit I have outweighs the benefit for health/readiness afforded by a 100% vaccination rate. We all know how it is going. I don't expect the DOD or AF to make a critical decision here when careers and perceptions are involved...the slim chance for a win will come in Federal courts or from congress. Hence...delay/degrade/deny as long as I can.

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

Doesn’t pretty much all modern medicine do this? Perhaps the modern world, & especially aviation isn’t your bag. After all, god didn’t give you wings….surely he doesn’t expect you to fly. 

Dude...people acting like you (and others on here) make it much easier for me to walk away and hold true to my own personal integrity and faith. This isn't just my loss, it's a mission capability and leadership loss. Fellow officers, pilots, Airmen, and American's are ripping each other apart as things decay around us. I may be in the 1% asking for an RA, but my personal observation is around 30-50% aren't happy with any of this. I've served pretty dam successfully and well as an officer and pilot for 13+ years now. Instead of anything substantial, you attack me to make me sound like a quaker or flat earth retard because of my faith. 

I would say no....all of modern medicine doesn't do this to you. Humans have never been injected with synthetic ribonucleic acid (RNA) before these COVID-19 vaccines....most modern medicines puts chemicals directly into your blood stream, they've never hijacked and replaced cellular protein production at the individual cell level (you don't seem to have even an elementary understanding of how it works comparing it to "modern medicine"). **Cue the "RNA" vaccines have been tested for 30 years, they are amazing!!! Guess you didn't read about ADE or all of the animals that died with the RNA vaccines they tested on animals only (the reason they never went to human trials).**

And guess what, based on my secular health opinions and faith I (and my family) avoid pharmaceutical medical options unless they are the last/required option. We minimize x-rays, minimize processed food, and try to use hygiene/health products that are naturally derived without chemicals. Guess what....I've been a successful pilot and military aviator hacking the mish for 13 years even if you would rule me out for not being born with wings.

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Yeah, I'm not sure "deliberately undo and hinder my God given natural cellular processes" jives with taking *any* medication. Definitely a bridge too far, and inconsistent with any COVID-only objections I tend to support.

I'd encourage you to review how ribosomes work with cellular protein production...you would see that no other modern medical process or product has ever messed with this or used synthetic RNA. That specifically is my objection. The cool part about the constitution and religious freedom is your opinion doesn't matter as long as my belief is sincere according to the law of the land.

 

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

What people often miss is that accommodation may well be separating from the service. 

100% bro...probably the first post I've agreed with you on and I appreciate the respectful comment. I considered MLCOA/MDCOA/threats heavily before going down this road, I'm aware of where it will likely lead. It's worth it for me.

Edited December 18, 2021 by GoodSplash9

[pawnman]

Enjoy your civilian job. None of us are irreplaceable. The Air Force will, without a doubt, find a way to continue without your leadership and aviation experience. 

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Simply doesn't matter.  If he(assuming) "sincerely believes" this, then DoD/USAF's own rules state he should be granted the accomodation.

Unless they bow to political pressure.

Color me shocked.

Likewise at those who scoff at such held beliefs.  I pity any subordinates who came to you for help.

You don't have to agree with those beliefs, but to simply toss them aside says much.

Which part? Doesn't matter for COVID, or doesn't matter for anything?

 

Religious accommodations are not granted for many medical things, regardless of sincere beliefs. Your option is to not join. COVID is new, so there are new considerations. But if your sincere beliefs regarding COVID vaccination aren't logically consistent with other medical decisions you've made as a military member pre-COVID, then they aren't sincere beliefs, are they?

 

Don't lose the moral high ground by being reflexively anti-everything.

[pawnman]

2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Which part? Doesn't matter for COVID, or doesn't matter for anything?

 

Religious accommodations are not granted for many medical things, regardless of sincere beliefs. Your option is to not join. COVID is new, so there are new considerations. But if your sincere beliefs regarding COVID vaccination aren't logically consistent with other medical decisions you've made as a military member pre-COVID, then they aren't sincere beliefs, are they?

 

Don't lose the moral high ground by being reflexively anti-everything.

Yep.

I wonder if he's got a religious accommodation for the flu shot. Since it was developed using that same fetal cell line. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20347632/

[Lord Ratner]

50 minutes ago, GoodSplash9 said:

I addressed that in my RA with a whole page. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and supreme court case Frazee v. Illinois clearly establish legally that there is no denominational or previous track record metric for establishing that someone has a sincerely held religious belief. Like alot of people, I had no idea that vaccines were routinely developed, researched, tested, and grown/produced using aborted fetal stem cells. I can't go back in time, just apply my beliefs now and in the future. I won't be taking any vaccines in the future involved with aborted fetal stem cells, but the RNA/DNA is also a no-go for me. I wouldn't say it is a "weak" argument.

The real question for the air force is the whether or not the opportunity cost of approving my RA and keeping the leadership/aviation/mission benefit I have outweighs the benefit for health/readiness afforded by a 100% vaccination rate. We all know how it is going. I don't expect the DOD or AF to make a critical decision here when careers and perceptions are involved...the slim chance for a win will come in Federal courts or from congress. Hence...delay/degrade/deny as long as I can.

Dude...people acting like you (and others on here) make it much easier for me to walk away and hold true to my own personal integrity and faith. This isn't just my loss, it's a mission capability and leadership loss. Fellow officers, pilots, Airmen, and American's are ripping each other apart as things decay around us. I may be in the 1% asking for an RA, but my personal observation is around 30-50% aren't happy with any of this. I've served pretty dam successfully and well as an officer and pilot for 13+ years now. Instead of anything substantial, you attack me to make me sound like a quaker or flat earth retard because of my faith. 

I would say no....all of modern medicine doesn't do this to you. Humans have never been injected with synthetic ribonucleic acid (RNA) before these COVID-19 vaccines....most modern medicines puts chemicals directly into your blood stream, they've never hijacked and replaced cellular protein production at the individual cell level (you don't seem to have even an elementary understanding of how it works comparing it to "modern medicine"). **Cue the "RNA" vaccines have been tested for 30 years, they are amazing!!! Guess you didn't read about ADE or all of the animals that died with the RNA vaccines they tested on animals only (the reason they never went to human trials).**

And guess what, based on my secular health opinions and faith I (and my family) avoid pharmaceutical medical options unless they are the last/required option. We minimize x-rays, minimize processed food, and try to use hygiene/health products that are naturally derived without chemicals. Guess what....I've been a successful pilot and military aviator hacking the mish for 13 years even if you would rule me out for not being born with wings.

I'd encourage you to review how ribosomes work with cellular protein production...you would see that no other modern medical process or product has ever messed with this or used synthetic RNA. That specifically is my objection. The cool part about the constitution and religious freedom is your opinion doesn't matter as long as my belief is sincere according to the law of the land.

 

100% bro...probably the first post I've agreed with you on and I appreciate the respectful comment. I considered MLCOA/MDCOA/threats heavily before going down this road, I'm aware of where it will likely lead. It's worth it for me.

Your failure to adequately research medical developments before joining is your fault. Period. So you made an agreement regarding all previously-existing vaccines, regardless of how they were developed.

 

COVID has plenty of considerations that are new, and I support those who dissent to the new considerations, but "deliberately undo and hinder my God given natural cellular processes" is not at all a medically consistent statement if you take *any* medications. 

 

If that's not what you really meant, then put some more effort into what you post before getting self righteous. You (as a group) don't have many allies left, so maybe don't alienate them when they point out a bad argument. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[CaptainMorgan]

I wonder how many of those decrying vaccinations developed with the benefit of fetal cell lines would even hesitate to have their kid administered a rabies vaccine if they were bitten.


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[bennynova]

19 hours ago, pawnman said:

Pretty sure this is EXACTLY what the Kentucky study found. Infection + vaccine is better immunity than infection or vaccine alone. 

Wearing a seatbelt and having a pillow taped to your stomach is also safer than wearing a seatbelt or taping a pillow alone.

 

that doesn’t mean we need both...

 

in this case, the pillow is getting the vaccine.

[bennynova]

35 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Yep.

I wonder if he's got a religious accommodation for the flu shot. Since it was developed using that same fetal cell line. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20347632/

False.   Yes it’s possible to be done that way.   But DOd influenza vaccines are not sourced from and do not leverage hek293

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Wearing a seatbelt and having a pillow taped to your stomach is also safer than wearing a seatbelt or taping a pillow alone.

 

that doesn’t mean we need both...

 

in this case, the pillow is getting the vaccine.

Or... and follow with me here...seatbelts and airbags. It's like a pillow that's only there when you need it. 

Want to try a different analogy? 

[bennynova]

10 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Or... and follow with me here...seatbelts and airbags. It's like a pillow that's only there when you need it. 

Want to try a different analogy? 

Sure.   How about something that 99% effective (natural immunity or a vaccine).   Against a threat that only effects the military demographic at less than 1%??

 

why do we need two 99% effective solutions,?

 

we are trying to solve a 1% risk by throwing an unknown, but likely greater risk (long term and short term side effects) on top of it. 

[Waingro]

31 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Sure.   How about something that 99% effective (natural immunity or a vaccine).   Against a threat that only effects the military demographic at less than 1%??

 

why do we need two 99% effective solutions,?

 

we are trying to solve a 1% risk by throwing an unknown, but likely greater risk (long term and short term side effects) on top of it. 

1% of a large population is still a huge number.

1 in every 100 people older than 65, who were alive on day 1 of the pandemic, have now died from COVID-19. 

 

[pawnman]

58 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Sure.   How about something that 99% effective (natural immunity or a vaccine).   Against a threat that only effects the military demographic at less than 1%??

 

why do we need two 99% effective solutions,?

 

we are trying to solve a 1% risk by throwing an unknown, but likely greater risk (long term and short term side effects) on top of it. 

Don't confuse "death" with "effect".

You don't have to die to be rendered ineffective by Covid.

Not to mention every base has a boatload of DoD civilians who ARE in the high-risk demographics. 

[DosXX]

1 hour ago, bennynova said:

we are trying to solve a 1% risk by throwing an unknown, but likely greater risk (long term and short term side effects) on top of it.

You're assuming there is no long term risk for having COVID either, which we also don't know. What evidence so you have to suggest one has a higher long term risk than the other? 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Waingro said:

1% of a large population is still a huge number.

1 in every 100 people older than 65, who were alive on day 1 of the pandemic, have now died from COVID-19. 

 

Careful with stats. Every year 4% of that demographic dies. And it's a mathematical certainty that there is significant overlap of the 4% and the 1%.

[MCO]

4 hours ago, GoodSplash9 said:

I addressed that in my RA with a whole page. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and supreme court case Frazee v. Illinois clearly establish legally that there is no denominational or previous track record metric for establishing that someone has a sincerely held religious belief. Like alot of people, I had no idea that vaccines were routinely developed, researched, tested, and grown/produced using aborted fetal stem cells. I can't go back in time, just apply my beliefs now and in the future. I won't be taking any vaccines in the future involved with aborted fetal stem cells, but the RNA/DNA is also a no-go for me. I wouldn't say it is a "weak" argument.

The real question for the air force is the whether or not the opportunity cost of approving my RA and keeping the leadership/aviation/mission benefit I have outweighs the benefit for health/readiness afforded by a 100% vaccination rate. We all know how it is going. I don't expect the DOD or AF to make a critical decision here when careers and perceptions are involved...the slim chance for a win will come in Federal courts or from congress. Hence...delay/degrade/deny as long as I can.

Dude...people acting like you (and others on here) make it much easier for me to walk away and hold true to my own personal integrity and faith. This isn't just my loss, it's a mission capability and leadership loss. Fellow officers, pilots, Airmen, and American's are ripping each other apart as things decay around us. I may be in the 1% asking for an RA, but my personal observation is around 30-50% aren't happy with any of this. I've served pretty dam successfully and well as an officer and pilot for 13+ years now. Instead of anything substantial, you attack me to make me sound like a quaker or flat earth retard because of my faith. 

I would say no....all of modern medicine doesn't do this to you. Humans have never been injected with synthetic ribonucleic acid (RNA) before these COVID-19 vaccines....most modern medicines puts chemicals directly into your blood stream, they've never hijacked and replaced cellular protein production at the individual cell level (you don't seem to have even an elementary understanding of how it works comparing it to "modern medicine"). **Cue the "RNA" vaccines have been tested for 30 years, they are amazing!!! Guess you didn't read about ADE or all of the animals that died with the RNA vaccines they tested on animals only (the reason they never went to human trials).**

And guess what, based on my secular health opinions and faith I (and my family) avoid pharmaceutical medical options unless they are the last/required option. We minimize x-rays, minimize processed food, and try to use hygiene/health products that are naturally derived without chemicals. Guess what....I've been a successful pilot and military aviator hacking the mish for 13 years even if you would rule me out for not being born with wings.

I'd encourage you to review how ribosomes work with cellular protein production...you would see that no other modern medical process or product has ever messed with this or used synthetic RNA. That specifically is my objection. The cool part about the constitution and religious freedom is your opinion doesn't matter as long as my belief is sincere according to the law of the land.

 

100% bro...probably the first post I've agreed with you on and I appreciate the respectful comment. I considered MLCOA/MDCOA/threats heavily before going down this road, I'm aware of where it will likely lead. It's worth it for me.

Im not judging your view, just that your argument will be tough if you took all the other vaccines. No one ever thinks their own argument is weak. At least not people with actual convictions.

[bennynova]

3 hours ago, Waingro said:

1% of a large population is still a huge number.

1 in every 100 people older than 65, who were alive on day 1 of the pandemic, have now died from COVID-19. 

 

I didn’t know they were in the military demographic.   Which I specifically stated.

 

im fine with people getting it.   Some people are higher risk   Others just want to get it because it makes them feel safe    Whatev   That’s fine.    But it’s not urgent enough of a problem for the military to mandate it. 

  

[bennynova]

2 hours ago, DosXX said:

You're assuming there is no long term risk for having COVID either, which we also don't know. What evidence so you have to suggest one has a higher long term risk than the other? 

Everyone’s getting covid.   Even the vaccinated.   So they’ll have both unknown long term risks to deal with. 

[CaptainMorgan]

Everyone’s getting covid.   Even the vaccinated.   So they’ll have both unknown long term risks to deal with. 

Right, except for the fact the vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized. I’m gonna make a guess that if there are long term effects from the virus, they are going to present far more seriously in someone admitted to the hospital compared to someone who needed a bottle of NyQuil and a box of tissues to recover.


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[bennynova]

23 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Right, except for the fact the vaccinated are less likely to be hospitalized. I’m gonna make a guess that if there are long term effects from the virus, they are going to present far more seriously in someone admitted to the hospital compared to someone who needed a bottle of NyQuil and a box of tissues to recover.


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Time will tell.  Since you guys have already volunteered to be the experiment,   I’ll be the control. 

[CaptainMorgan]

Time will tell.  Since you guys have already volunteered to be the experiment,   I’ll be the control. 

Okay. Enjoy your experiment with refusing an order. We already know how that will go.


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[Prozac]

13 hours ago, GoodSplash9 said:

Dude...people acting like you (and others on here) make it much easier for me to walk away and hold true to my own personal integrity and faith. This isn't just my loss, it's a mission capability and leadership loss. Fellow officers, pilots, Airmen, and American's are ripping each other apart as things decay around us. I may be in the 1% asking for an RA, but my personal observation is around 30-50% aren't happy with any of this. I've served pretty dam successfully and well as an officer and pilot for 13+ years now. Instead of anything substantial, you attack me to make me sound like a quaker or flat earth retard because of my faith. 

I would say no....all of modern medicine doesn't do this to you. Humans have never been injected with synthetic ribonucleic acid (RNA) before these COVID-19 vaccines....most modern medicines puts chemicals directly into your blood stream, they've never hijacked and replaced cellular protein production at the individual cell level (you don't seem to have even an elementary understanding of how it works comparing it to "modern medicine"). **Cue the "RNA" vaccines have been tested for 30 years, they are amazing!!! Guess you didn't read about ADE or all of the animals that died with the RNA vaccines they tested on animals only (the reason they never went to human trials).**

And guess what, based on my secular health opinions and faith I (and my family) avoid pharmaceutical medical options unless they are the last/required option. We minimize x-rays, minimize processed food, and try to use hygiene/health products that are naturally derived without chemicals. Guess what....I've been a successful pilot and military aviator hacking the mish for 13 years even if you would rule me out for not being born with wings.

Look man, your argument has all sorts of holes in it & things are not going to work out well for you.  Your argument seems to be solely based on the novelty of mRNA vaccines.  While I could point out that the process you described is similar to what traditional vaccines already do, or that it is not "gene therapy", or that pretty much every advance in medical history has been opposed by people with "religious convictions", I don't have to.  You have the option to take the J&J vaccine, which is not an mRNA product. So I'm really having trouble understanding your objection.

[HuggyU2]

At least the pilot retention problem will be offset by the massive increase in military readiness we will obtain, thanks to the vaccine mandate/purge along with mandatory mask wear. 

[glockenspiel]

10 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

At least the pilot retention problem will be offset by the massive increase in military readiness we will obtain, thanks to the vaccine mandate/purge along with mandatory mask wear. 

The force will be immensely stronger without all the selfish antivaxxers in it. They claim to have “served honorably” but they were just in hiding for their decades of service, and their true colors are being shown now. Boot em all. Self righteous bastards.