Command Directed Q3 Q?

[DirkDiggler]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I see the toxicity continues. 

A horrific sitting AFSOC three star gave double digit command directed Q-3s when he was a squadron commander. 

Would you be referring to Cat 5?

[ClearedHot]

Just now, DirkDiggler said:

Would you be referring to Cat 5?

Sadly, yes.  One of the worst humans I have ever met.

[DirkDiggler]

1 minute ago, ClearedHot said:

Sadly, yes.  One of the worst humans I have ever met.

Agreed, and unfortunately my community has to claim him.  Also unfortunate that he's most likely going to be the next AFSOC/CC.

I will say though that as with everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Some of those Q3s (duct taped antenna and flying over the red roofed inn specifically) were probably justified; if you ask the ACs on both those sorties they'll admit they fucked up.

[LookieRookie]

5 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

But as an OG, the German has an entire shop of likely non-German experts (can’t remember the acronym - I think it ends with a V) to bounce this sort of thing off of.  Not saying he didn’t, but either they concurred or no one felt compelled or able to talk him out of it. 

The good news is, this shouldn’t affect the Q3’d reservist’s seniority when he goes back to Delta. 

Insane.

 

[FLEA]

5 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

But as an OG, the German has an entire shop of likely non-German experts (can’t remember the acronym - I think it ends with a V) to bounce this sort of thing off of.  Not saying he didn’t, but either they concurred or no one felt compelled or able to talk him out of it. 

The good news is, this shouldn’t affect the Q3’d reservist’s seniority when he goes back to Delta. 

Haha, have you worked with Europeans before? They are about the most stubborn and arrogant people I ever met. I worked in NATO AWACS for a while, and working with European commanders has got to be one of the most toxic work environments there is. The good news is, the US component rarely gives a shit if your European commander thinks you're garbage. 

[ClearedHot]

6 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

Agreed, and unfortunately my community has to claim him.  Also unfortunate that he's most likely going to be the next AFSOC/CC.

I will say though that as with everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Some of those Q3s (duct taped antenna and flying over the red roofed inn specifically) were probably justified; if you ask the ACs on both those sorties they'll admit they fucked up.

Fair enough...some of those may be deserved in the Cud Chewing community. 

However, was it in the middle when he crucified a U-28 bro with non-judicial punishment for losing his weapon then lost his own weapon in the shitter with ZERO consequences?  How funny that his command chief found the weapon and returned it to him quietly.

Was it in the middle when he ran a CV-22 into the trees and tried to keep going...then almost dodged the Q-3 when everyone else got one?  I've personally talked to someone on that flight who thought for sure "he was dead" when they almost flipped over into the trees.

I am far to close to the situation and know much of the inside baseball...He was toast but another maniac GO stepped in and told the boss "I can save and fix him."  I was also in the room with that boss when he said "some people we can't let fail because they are so many years below the zone."  They are so obsessed with making AFSOC/GOs they were willing to overlook a narcissistic lunatic. 

[DirkDiggler]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Fair enough...some of those may be deserved in the Cud Chewing community. 

However, was it in the middle when he crucified a U-28 bro with non-judicial punishment for losing his weapon then lost his own weapon in the shitter with ZERO consequences?  How funny that his command chief found the weapon and returned it to him quietly.

Was it in the middle when he ran a CV-22 into the trees and tried to keep going...then almost dodged the Q-3 when everyone else got one?  I've personally talked to someone on that flight who thought for sure "he was dead" when they almost flipped over into the trees.

I am far to close to the situation and know much of the inside baseball...He was toast but another maniac GO stepped in and told the boss "I can save and fix him."  I was also in the room with that boss when he said "some people we can't let fail because they are so many years below the zone."  They are so obsessed with making AFSOC/GOs they were willing to overlook a narcissistic lunatic. 

Just so we don’t get it twisted, I’m not a fan of said individual. At all.  Just saying that everyone always goes to the 28 CC directed Q3s as the primary reason he’s a raging asshole even though some of those were earned.  He’s committed far greater douchebaggery above the Sq/CC level.

  He actually gave NJP to 3 people for losing weapons, which made the karma on that one all the more amusing.  Anyone else would’ve been done after crashing the CV-22 the way he did but some people really are Teflon I guess.

  Tracking on how close you are to said situation/individual, if I’d been done that way I’d be pissed too.  The one thing I can’t understand is how the current AFSOC/CC has tolerated his dicknannagans given that Slife is a pretty black and white guy on stuff like that.  I think it’s real unfortunate that he’s probably going to be the next CC, cause he’s a pretty vindictive person and if/when he gets in the seat there will be blood.

[Guardian]

So based on what is known (not what isn’t as I don’t know the whole story) most think that the Q3 is trash?

I hope the dude is already and airline guy and hopefully active duty and reservists fight back agains the German OG.

[Smokin]

Is the German OG the reservists actual legal commander?  If there were to be non-judicial punishment (which this is borderline), would a German have actual legal authority for that in the United States for a USAF IP? 

I've landed a fighter with an EP at an uncontrolled airfield.  Everything turned out fine.  Bit of a pain to get the fighter out of there because it required ACC/CC approval, but never heard anyone second guess me even though my leadership at the time was less than optimal.

If it were me that this happened to, I'd be in the IG office, talking to the ADC, a civilian lawyer that knows military law, and my senator.  The Q3 might stick, but it'll be so much work and pain that they would wish they never thought of it.

Edit to add: in case it wasn't obvious, this Q3 is complete BS if this is indeed the true story.  Also, if it is a true story, the reservists there should all be sick for the next month or two.  Get it highlighted all the way up to AETC/CC when the whole base gets a month behind timeline to show that he has an exceptionally toxic commander that needs to be dealt with.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Smokin

[di1630]

Land as soon as conditions permit…they permitted.

And F-ck having a German OG. They are a shell of an Air Force, zero ability except following regs.

[Guardian]

Someone else familiar with Sheppard will have to speak up. But I believe the joint ENJEPT nature of things has foreigners in charge of US members and vice versa. I believe the German OG is the legal OG of the entire combined Ops group.

[Chida]

Meh… AMC and AETC have made the boogey-man Q3 virtually meaningless on its face thru overuse.

[Fox 3]

No decent foreign senior officer would/should ever do anything so drastic without consult of other senior host-nation officers. I served in a coalition combat unit with some pretty inept NATO and other nation senior officers.  Minus a few good eggs,  the foreign O-6 crowd was a joke...in way over their heads but the good news is they knew it.  My Aussie O-6 boss was interested in learning our USAF OPR system so he could "do better" but was a total LIMFAC and not worth the time- I deliberately cut him out of the process and convinced our USAF O-6 director of staff that he should rate on all of my dudes- it worked.  Not all of the divisions did the same and they paid the price.  BL- If the thread scenario is as described, cut this dude out of the process now.  If your American leadership is not backing you up, elevate. Also, ENJJPT is a joke. 

Finally, can we please man up and stop dancing around this AFSOC guy who uses Q-3s like AMC?  What is his name so we can hold people accountable.   

Edited September 3, 2021 by Fox 3

[BashiChuni]

13 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Sadly, yes.  One of the worst humans I have ever met.

I second this. A total POS. 

[ClearedHot]

3 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

Just so we don’t get it twisted, I’m not a fan of said individual. At all.  Just saying that everyone always goes to the 28 CC directed Q3s as the primary reason he’s a raging asshole even though some of those were earned.  He’s committed far greater douchebaggery above the Sq/CC level.

  He actually gave NJP to 3 people for losing weapons, which made the karma on that one all the more amusing.  Anyone else would’ve been done after crashing the CV-22 the way he did but some people really are Teflon I guess.

  Tracking on how close you are to said situation/individual, if I’d been done that way I’d be pissed too.  The one thing I can’t understand is how the current AFSOC/CC has tolerated his dicknannagans given that Slife is a pretty black and white guy on stuff like that.  I think it’s real unfortunate that he’s probably going to be the next CC, cause he’s a pretty vindictive person and if/when he gets in the seat there will be blood.

Tracking.

The current guy saved him because he needed an ally he could control.  Current maniac is trying to do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible so it can't be undone.  He believes he is the next SOCOM/CC now that the favorite made a mistake and retired.  If he fleets up and Cat 5 replaces him the damage will last a generation.  As many have noted, dark days ahead for AFSOC.

[HeloDude]

43 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Tracking.

The current guy saved him because he needed an ally he could control.  Current maniac is trying to do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible so it can't be undone.  He believes he is the next SOCOM/CC now that the favorite made a mistake and retired.  If he fleets up and Cat 5 replaces him the damage will last a generation.  As many have noted, dark days ahead for AFSOC.

But the “Core Values”?…or something.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Smokin said:

Is the German OG the reservists actual legal commander?  If there were to be non-judicial punishment (which this is borderline), would a German have actual legal authority for that in the United States for a USAF IP? 

I've landed a fighter with an EP at an uncontrolled airfield.  Everything turned out fine.  Bit of a pain to get the fighter out of there because it required ACC/CC approval, but never heard anyone second guess me even though my leadership at the time was less than optimal.

If it were me that this happened to, I'd be in the IG office, talking to the ADC, a civilian lawyer that knows military law, and my senator.  The Q3 might stick, but it'll be so much work and pain that they would wish they never thought of it.

Edit to add: in case it wasn't obvious, this Q3 is complete BS if this is indeed the true story.  Also, if it is a true story, the reservists there should all be sick for the next month or two.  Get it highlighted all the way up to AETC/CC when the whole base gets a month behind timeline to show that he has an exceptionally toxic commander that needs to be dealt with.

If it work like AWACS, which it probably does, the OG commander has been transferred OPCON from US to NATO and he has the legal authority to manage operational level programs like flying training and flight evaluations. So in AWACS you always had a US squadron commander that wrote your OPRs and stuff and then a NATO squadron commander who could direct you to fly missions and do anything of an operational nature. The NATO squadron commander absolutely had the legal authority to direct a Q3. (although in AWACS you use the German evaluation system which is easier to hide as it never goes into your FEF)

I don't think it would make it very far through court though because flight by nature is operational and transfer of operational command and control is very common to international bodies. 

[Guardian]

Being told more information about German OG. No Q3’s for the following under his reign

-Forms sucked down intake

- approach lighting stuck by aircraft

-2 x instances of engine failure and overflew suitable airfields. On one of them a dude flew another 150-200 miles before landing.

Again I have no direct or second hand knowledge of events. Just being passed words behind the scene from one of you with knowledge.

[SocialD]

Hmmm, in my experience, if someone in leadership has it out for an individual, little things like integrity, consistency and fairness don't get in the way of going after someone.  Not saying this is the case in this situation, just an observation.  

 

I'm reminded of the time in BAF when an E-Model WG/CC flew across Nixons nose (big time), and nothing is said/briefed/etc...  Yet when one of my squadrons mates saw he was about to bust just the buffer (not the actual border), goes full AB in the turn (still busts the buffer), dude grounds him and threatens to send him home.  Hindsight, being sent home wouldn't have been half bad lol.  

[skibum]

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

Being told more information about German OG. No Q3’s for the following under his reign

-Forms sucked down intake

- approach lighting stuck by aircraft

-2 x instances of engine failure and overflew suitable airfields. On one of them a dude flew another 150-200 miles before landing.

Again I have no direct or second hand knowledge of events. Just being passed words behind the scene from one of you with knowledge.

I'm guessing there's more to the story...

[Danger41]

I was going to let Guardian get to it but he’s not so I’ll just add the Paul Harvey rest of the story. The T-38 Sq/CC was fired for not wanting to give the Q-3’s, as well. I’ve got info from some folks there and there’s always more to the story but this is also an interesting detail that I’m sure will take this thread into a productive direction lol.

[DirkDiggler]

14 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I was going to let Guardian get to it but he’s not so I’ll just add the Paul Harvey rest of the story. The T-38 Sq/CC was fired for not wanting to give the Q-3’s, as well. I’ve got info from some folks there and there’s always more to the story but this is also an interesting detail that I’m sure will take this thread into a productive direction lol.

That's fucked up.  Kuddos to the Sq/CC though for standing by his guys and not getting forced into giving Q3s he didn't believe were warranted.

[hindsight2020]

Now wait a minute. Enough of the 20 questions, is it a goddamned T-6 or is it a T-38? This actually matters a lot wrt the question of landing at SPS after hours for a generator failure, as the justification for a Q-3.

Yuge difference in EP decision matrix between the two for the EP in question. It can very much be an imprudent decision to put a T-38 in a closed field (even home field) for a simpleton generator failure with good cross, with a suitable (rwy length is the big LIMFAC for 38 diverts) runway a mere 35NM north. Not so in the case of the single generator in a T-6 failing, which is much more time sensitive wrt time to total elec failure.

[Danger41]

21 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Now wait a minute. Enough of the 20 questions, is it a goddamned T-6 or is it a T-38? This actually matters a lot wrt the question of landing at SPS after hours for a generator failure, as the justification for a Q-3.

Yuge difference in EP decision matrix between the two for the EP in question. It can very much be an imprudent decision to put a T-38 in a closed field (even home field) for a simpleton generator failure with good cross, with a suitable (rwy length is the big LIMFAC for 38 diverts) runway a mere 35NM north. Not so in the case of the single generator in a T-6 failing, which is much more time sensitive wrt time to total elec failure.

T-38

[HeloDude]

55 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I was going to let Guardian get to it but he’s not so I’ll just add the Paul Harvey rest of the story. The T-38 Sq/CC was fired for not wanting to give the Q-3’s, as well. I’ve got info from some folks there and there’s always more to the story but this is also an interesting detail that I’m sure will take this thread into a productive direction lol.

I wonder what Pulse thinks about this…since he literally just put out an SII about ORM and the PIC having the final authority over risk management, etc.