Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[fire4effect]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Being a product of and having served during the Cold War it was easy for me to say kill all the Russians when this thing first started.  As the reports started to come in and having seen the nasty side of war I actually had a small amount of compassion for the Russian conscripts who are mowed down like cannon fodder in Putin's invasion.  Reading some of the follow on like the article below...KILL THEM ALL.

Two Russian soldiers raped Ukrainian mother after killing husband as her four-year-old son cried

Strategic E-4. This SOB put a target on all our backs. One low ranking soldier can have strategic level effects.

Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Wikipedia

[FLEA]

So Just War Theory is something we have all probably heard of but it actually goes much deeper than the intro level we get in PME or LOAC training. 

A key tenant of it that is written into the Geneva conventions, is the understanding in war that uniformed members are ALWAYS innocent unless they commit crimes in the warzone, in which they are guilty of the crimes but still innocent of the war. 

The only belligerents of the war are the states as sovereign entities, and uniformed members simply serving their country are simply victims. (Obviously caveats if for not following illegal orders but you get the general idea.) 

This is one of the reason Geneva only discusses two types of incarceration, criminal and POW status. In both cases there is an emphasis on humanity. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by FLEA

[DirkDiggler]

  Good video of a T-72 in its natural state.

[DirkDiggler]

Good video of Russian vehicles getting blasted.

[arg]

27 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

  Good video of a T-72 in its natural state.

I was beginning to think it's natural state was behind a Ukrainian farmers tractor.

[08Dawg]

13 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Being a product of and having served during the Cold War it was easy for me to say kill all the Russians when this thing first started.  As the reports started to come in and having seen the nasty side of war I actually had a small amount of compassion for the Russian conscripts who are mowed down like cannon fodder in Putin's invasion.  Reading some of the follow on like the article below...KILL THEM ALL.

 

I got to this point when I saw the pictures of the Ukrainian family, including the mother and two children who were trying to flee and were killed by a mortar strike which seems to have intentionally targeted them.  I feel a small amount of pity for them being conscripted, but at the same time, events like the one you noted shred any pretense of that and make me wish fully for their destruction.   

[Prozac]

15 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Being a product of and having served during the Cold War it was easy for me to say kill all the Russians when this thing first started.  As the reports started to come in and having seen the nasty side of war I actually had a small amount of compassion for the Russian conscripts who are mowed down like cannon fodder in Putin's invasion.  Reading some of the follow on like the article below...KILL THEM ALL.

Two Russian soldiers raped Ukrainian mother after killing husband as her four-year-old son cried

Another such moment: a Russian APC intentionally targeting & needlessly destroying an obviously civilian vehicle & killing the elderly couple inside. Warning: video is disturbing. 

 

[Hunter Rose]

12 hours ago, Prozac said:

Another such moment: a Russian APC intentionally targeting & needlessly destroying an obviously civilian vehicle & killing the elderly couple inside. Warning: video is disturbing. 

 

 

War is hell, but videos like that mean I I could give a shit about high gas prices...just send as much armament to Ukraine as we can so they can kill as many Russian invaders as possible.

 

[fire4effect]

18 hours ago, Prozac said:

Another such moment: a Russian APC intentionally targeting & needlessly destroying an obviously civilian vehicle & killing the elderly couple inside. Warning: video is disturbing. 

 

Looks like they were escorting a fuel truck and that had them pretty trigger happy. Also BIG IF the Ukrainians are using civilian vehicles with Javelins in the trunk to pop off at the Russians (I have no way to know if that's true or not so I can't say) it puts everyone on the road at risk. Still is a damn tragedy and the Russians to blame for starting this whole thing in the first place.

[ClearedHot]

MANPAD rips tail off MI-28

 

[slc]

 

Tail boom…

 

[GrndPndr]

Shoot down was with UK Built weapon (probably).  They're all excited:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-missile-shoots-down-first-russian-helicopter-in-ukraine-war-tztnmxqr2

[DirkDiggler]

Good looking Flanker, maybe parts plus 12.

[12xu2a3x3]

dude not wearing a g suit, seems so odd

[VigilanteNav]

Would not have predicted this prior to Feb 24.  "Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv".  Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 3 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)    Got to give a shout out to any California and Florida (and any others) Guardsman who participated in the SPP and other events through the years and up until the invasion.  CHEERS!  

[Lawman]

Would not have predicted this prior to Feb 24.  "Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv".  Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 3 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)    Got to give a shout out to any California and Florida (and any others) Guardsman who participated in the SPP and other events through the years and up until the invasion.  CHEERS!  

Anecdotes speaking to the organization of their withdrawals. This was taken along the Sumy axis after 4th Guards got its ass handed too it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[fire4effect]

4 hours ago, VigilanteNav said:

Would not have predicted this prior to Feb 24.  "Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv".  Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 3 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)    Got to give a shout out to any California and Florida (and any others) Guardsman who participated in the SPP and other events through the years and up until the invasion.  CHEERS!  

To those who toil in anonymity especially the NCOs. What you do matters.

[Prosuper]

6 hours ago, Lawman said:

Anecdotes speaking to the organization of their withdrawals. This was taken along the Sumy axis after 4th Guards got its ass handed too it.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I wonder if those guys left behind were officers, the enlisted guys have had enough. Explains total lack of control and discipline with looting and murder.

[Sim]

Ka-52 vs Anti-tank missile. 

[TheNewGazmo]

Ka-52 vs Anti-tank missile. 

That is awesome... he probably didn't even know what hit him.

[Sim]

What does LOAC say about this? (NSFW). Person appears to be personal security of Saakashvili from ~2014 (Nazik Hizanasville)

[uhhello]

3 hours ago, Sim said:

What does LOAC say about this? (NSFW). Person appears to be personal security of Saakashvili from ~2014 (Nazik Hizanasville)

Bro. Don’t click on that unless you want to see a couple dudes get snuffed out who are breathing their last agonal breaths. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by uhhello

[tac airlifter]

8 hours ago, Sim said:

What does LOAC say about this? (NSFW). Person appears to be personal security of Saakashvili from ~2014 (Nazik Hizanasville)

LOAC says you aren’t supposed to murder wounded prisoners.  I notice some of the Russian victims are zip tied.  There have been a lot of those videos— you can find Ukrainians killing tied up Russians with knives fairly easily.  It’s terrible.  War is terrible, and in this case neither side is innocent of wrong doing.

 That said, this was a war by Russian choice and for Ukrainian survival.  If Russia invaded Florida and I was running around with a piecemeal group of volunteers while every other nation sat around watching atrocities inflicted on my family…. Well I have some bad news for the LOAC office.

[fire4effect]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

LOAC says you aren’t supposed to murder wounded prisoners.  I notice some of the Russian victims are zip tied.  There have been a lot of those videos— you can find Ukrainians killing tied up Russians with knives fairly easily.  It’s terrible.  War is terrible, and in this case neither side is innocent of wrong doing.

 That said, this was a war by Russian choice and for Ukrainian survival.  If Russia invaded Florida and I was running around with a piecemeal group of volunteers while every other nation sat around watching atrocities inflicted on my family…. Well I have some bad news for the LOAC office.

Happened more than once on all sides in WW2. One of the more high profile examples Ronald Speirs - Wikipedia

Right or wrong Normandy really really was for all the marbles and anything that slowed or prevented mission accomplishment was not taken very lightly. Thankfully I never had to face their dilemma. I can't imagine. Disarmed Enemy Forces - Wikipedia was a designation given to German POWs after Germany's surrender in 1945 for the simple practical expediency of not having to provide a care and feeding at a level commensurate for POWs under the Geneva Convention.

 

 

[FLEA]

14 hours ago, fire4effect said:

Happened more than once on all sides in WW2. One of the more high profile examples Ronald Speirs - Wikipedia

Right or wrong Normandy really really was for all the marbles and anything that slowed or prevented mission accomplishment was not taken very lightly. Thankfully I never had to face their dilemma. I can't imagine. Disarmed Enemy Forces - Wikipedia was a designation given to German POWs after Germany's surrender in 1945 for the simple practical expediency of not having to provide a care and feeding at a level commensurate for POWs under the Geneva Convention.

 

 

Was kind of eluding to this earlier. We all want to see war crimes as this black and white thing but it's not and the fact is, states will attempt to blur the borders and boundaries of it as best as possible to serve their interests, including the US. The only definitive assurance is that your state will suffer less scrutiny if it comes out the victor. 

Its sort of why I don't put much stock into all of these cries about Russian war crimes because I can clearly see that what they're doing isn't really that far removed from our own state targeting processes, but they are doing it without the advantages of advanced sensory ISR or PGMs. I'm not saying there were war crimes committed by Russia, there certainly were; but most of the stuff I've seen right now is going to fall on an individual level and not on a state level. Now what is worth observing is if Russia internally disciplines those cases which is what we normally expect of our own military in this case (and why we won't sign in or participate in the ICC).

Again, not sure how many people on here are shooters or involved in targeting, but it is and always had been completely legal to kill civilians in war. Witnessed multiple times where we assessed a military target had the requisite necessity and proportionality to justify striking without regards to nearby civilian collateral. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by FLEA