Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[ClearedHot]

Ukrainians are droning the crap out of the Russians with small UAVs.

 

[TheNewGazmo]

Ukrainians are droning the crap out of the Russians with small UAVs.
 

What kind of drones are these that they're dropping these bowling pin type bombs from?

[nunya]

11 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

What kind of drones are these that they're dropping these bowling pin type bombs from?

Looks like RPGs under toy store drones. 

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-cheap-grenades-expensive-tanks/31835434.html

[TheNewGazmo]

Looks like RPGs under toy store drones. 
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-cheap-grenades-expensive-tanks/31835434.html

That is superb!

[SurelySerious]

Ukrainians are droning the crap out of the Russians with small UAVs.
 

Looks like WWI when they were leaning out the side of the cockpit and dropping by hand.

[ClearedHot]

22 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

Looks like WWI when they were leaning out the side of the cockpit and dropping by hand.

And it is working!  Can you imagine if they put some guidance on it...

[Prosuper]

I'm wondering when the Ukrainian Air Force will have a western equipped Wing of fighters, flown by Western pilots. They could call them the Flying Tigers. Has this ever been done before in history?

[Clayton Bigsby]

6 hours ago, Prosuper said:

I'm wondering when the Ukrainian Air Force will have a western equipped Wing of fighters, flown by Western pilots. They could call them the Flying Tigers. Has this ever been done before in history?

Feel like this is a matter of time…

[fire4effect]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:35 PM, nunya said:

Looks like RPGs under toy store drones. 

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-cheap-grenades-expensive-tanks/31835434.html

RKG-3 Grenade Near Miss on Stryker | Military.com

These were used at times by the insurgents in Iraq. 2-3 could pop out of an alleyway and lob them at a Humvee. Small parachute in the tail. Fortunately it didn't seem to be a common occurrence. Unfortunately this looks like something a few saavy terrorists could do over a large open air stadium on a random Saturday in October.

[FLEA]

https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-poised-deliver-massive-win-putin-nato-expansion-1706518

 

Stuff like this is why I feel this alliance is sometimes a waste of time. You have one state that doesn't agree with the other 30 and now your entire strategy is uprooted. Furthermore, there isnt much we can do about it. 

Even if we were to find the legal mechanism to remove Turkey from the alliance, it would be extraordinarily difficult to do. Turkey has really strategic terrain to the alliance and not all of the 29 remaining states may think they should go. If only one supports Turkey, than Turkey stays. 

How do you hold resolute and appear resolved when the internal politics of your own organization are in turmoil. 

 

 

This is not the only thing going on with Turkey as well. Turkey's activities in northern Syria and against Syrian Kurds who helped defeat ISIS is extremely troubling. 

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-poised-deliver-massive-win-putin-nato-expansion-1706518

 

Stuff like this is why I feel this alliance is sometimes a waste of time. You have one state that doesn't agree with the other 30 and now your entire strategy is uprooted. Furthermore, there isnt much we can do about it. 

Even if we were to find the legal mechanism to remove Turkey from the alliance, it would be extraordinarily difficult to do. Turkey has really strategic terrain to the alliance and not all of the 29 remaining states may think they should go. If only one supports Turkey, than Turkey stays. 

How do you hold resolute and appear resolved when the internal politics of your own organization are in turmoil. 

 

 

This is not the only thing going on with Turkey as well. Turkey's activities in northern Syria and against Syrian Kurds who helped defeat ISIS is extremely troubling. 

Turkey plays for Turkey as we saw with the F-35 S400 debacle.  That being said Turkey has some valid concerns if you look at it from their point of view.  His first point that it might increase risk is somewhat invalid given that NATO has already offered a security pledge stating they will protect F Inland and Sweden should Russia attack them.  However his second point about support of terrorists has some validity if you look at it through he Turkish lens.  Whatever you belief about the Kurds, Turkey has been fighting them for a long time and has classified them as terrorists.  Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have expressed overt support for the Kurds and welcomed them into their country.  In the end I think Erdogan will relent and vote in favor, but he will likely try to extract a quid pro quo in exchange.

[HeloDude]

19 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Turkey plays for Turkey…

As they should.  Why put the interest of other nations above the interests of your own?

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

As they should.  Why put the interest of other nations above the interests of your own?

Eye-roll. You don’t. You weigh the positives and negatives and make an informed decision on whether the alliance provides enough benefit to make it worthwhile. The fact that the Turks have put up with the Greeks for this long suggests that the Finns & Swedes won’t really end up being a non starter for them. 
 

Question: Do you believe any alliance makes sense in the modern world? Your posts suggest you don’t. Do you truly believe the world would be more stable if all alliances were dissolved? 

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

As they should.  Why put the interest of other nations above the interests of your own?

Agreed MAGA....or does that make me Ultra MAGA?

[FLEA]

32 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Eye-roll. You don’t. You weigh the positives and negatives and make an informed decision on whether the alliance provides enough benefit to make it worthwhile. The fact that the Turks have put up with the Greeks for this long suggests that the Finns & Swedes won’t really end up being a non starter for them. 
 

Question: Do you believe any alliance makes sense in the modern world? Your posts suggest you don’t. Do you truly believe the world would be more stable if all alliances were dissolved? 

It's the size that's mostly problematic. 

Things like FIVEEYES are good because there is a cultural connection that ensures the defense of similar values and the agreement is small enough to keep quagmires small. 

The problem with NATO is it's too big to succeed. If simply making bigger alliances was the secret to world security we would just ally everyone. But we are not doing that. 

Turkey may or may not approve the new ascension. I can see them going either way. If they approve it, it would be at cost of a significant quid quo pro. I don't fault Turkey for this. They are acting in their interests. But I think there is a prevailing myth that our interest is directly tied to the size and might of NATO when in fact the alliance offers diminishing returns the larger it gets. 

[HeloDude]

38 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Agreed MAGA....or does that make me Ultra MAGA?

I don’t know anything about MAGA…I just know that a government that does not put the interests of its citizens before that of other nations isn’t a government worth funding/supporting.

We’ll see how much more painful things need to get here before our citizens start thinking the same thing.

 

 

[arg]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:04 PM, Prosuper said:

I'm wondering when the Ukrainian Air Force will have a western equipped Wing of fighters, flown by Western pilots. They could call them the Flying Tigers. Has this ever been done before in history?

Was it Pope that had the A-10s with the teeth painted on them?

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Eye-roll. You don’t. You weigh the positives and negatives and make an informed decision on whether the alliance provides enough benefit to make it worthwhile. The fact that the Turks have put up with the Greeks for this long suggests that the Finns & Swedes won’t really end up being a non starter for them. 
 

Question: Do you believe any alliance makes sense in the modern world? Your posts suggest you don’t. Do you truly believe the world would be more stable if all alliances were dissolved? 

If you’re asking me if I support being in NATO specifically, the answer is a resounding no.  An alliance is only worth joining if the American people benefit as much/more than the other members.  And if you look at how much we spend on our defense than Iceland (for example), well, there’s your answer.

Oh, but I appreciate the “eye roll” from the left lol.

[Prosuper]

59 minutes ago, arg said:

Was it Pope that had the A-10s with the teeth painted on them?

Moody did have them like that.

 

[Prozac]

13 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Oh, but I appreciate the “eye roll” from the left lol.

Yeah, ‘cause all us leftys are big militarily alliance proponents. 

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yeah, ‘cause all us leftys are big militarily alliance proponents. 

Why yes actually. That is 100% true. 

 

[Lord Ratner]

12 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Why yes actually. That is 100% true. 

 

Uh, I might not be a statistician, but I think it's more like 87% true... Not 100%. But I'm colorblind, so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

[FLEA]

 

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Uh, I might not be a statistician, but I think it's more like 87% true... Not 100%. But I'm colorblind, so... 🤷🏻‍♂️

You're nitpicking. The idea that support for NATO is a mainstream left opinion over a mainstream right opinion is a 100% fact. 87% would be considered mainstream by any reasonable person. 

[M2]

21 hours ago, arg said:

Was it Pope that had the A-10s with the teeth painted on them?

It's complicated...

The 23rd was at Pope from 1 June 1992 – 30 July 2007.

Per Wikipedia (always an easy source)...

"On 1 October 2006, the 347th Rescue Wing at Moody redesignated as the 347th Rescue Group, while the 23rd Fighter Group was expanded and redesignated the 23rd Wing.  Along with the 347th Rescue Group, the original 23rd Fighter Group was reactivated, this time at Moody Air Force Base, for only the second time in over fifty years.  The 23rd Fighter Group was then assigned as one of the 23rd Wing's operations groups, although retaining the designation of "Fighter Group.

Both the 23rd Wing and 23rd Fighter Group are charged with carrying on the historic Flying Tiger's heritage."

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, FLEA said:

Why yes actually. That is 100% true. 

 

This is a VERY recent development & it kind of boggles my mind. It has been far more common for traditional “leftists” to argue that military alliances, globalism, and extensive foreign aid (specifically military aid) should take a back seat to solving issues at home. It’s only recently that the nativist wing of the Republican Party has taken over and made this issue it’s own. The Republican Party I grew up with (the people you now call Rinos) remembered the lessons of the Second World War and understood the benefits of a more “globalist” (now a dirty word for the new “conservatives”) outlook and it was commonplace to see the more left leaning folks criticize them for it. I feel like I’m living in bizarro world now when I hear conservatives rabidly sounding the mil/industrial complex alarm and liberals advocating NATO expansion.