Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[ecugringo]

32 minutes ago, Day Man said:

he's the UNHCR ambassador

Did not know that.

[Lord Ratner]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:28 AM, FLEA said:

biased Russophobia. 

There it is. If you disagree with me, it's a phobia.

 

It calls into question everything else you say.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Lord Ratner

[Lord Ratner]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:37 AM, hockeydork said:

Humans are as much academics as we are animals. Academics often forget that, but animals can't comprehend the academics.

Two fundamental failures of the "elites" running the world:

 

1) They are generally some of the smartest people in the world, and a certain level of intellectualism has a profound effect on motivations and decision-making. In particular, the intellectual class are disproportionately agreeable and conscientious. They also generally believe that the rest of the population, given the proper resources and framing, will come to the same conclusions/actions they have. This is false. The "animals" kill for sport, and this is inconceivable to the intellectuals. They recognize the behavior, but they are incapable of predicting it.

 

2) They believe their intellect makes them immune to basic human nature. The best example of this is the endless stream of generals/politicians/celebrities/pastors who get caught cheating or otherwise engaging in unacceptable sexual behavior.  But stealing, lying, and cheating (professionally) are other fine examples.

 

So you have the vast majority of the academic and political sphere that doesn't understand the motivations of the proletariat they seek to rule, while overestimating their own capabilities. Then we wonder why they fail so consistently in their jobs/predictions.

[Lord Ratner]

8 hours ago, ecugringo said:

Why is Zelensky meeting with Ben Stiller?  Why is Ben Stiller in Ukraine?  Seems odd the head of state that's currently at war has time to meet with a holly wood actor?

Because as soon as the west loses interest, Ukraine is toast.

[ViperMan]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:22 PM, Prosuper said:

My own personal opinion this is a natural resource grab, oil, natural gas and the best farm land in Eurasia.

100% this is an oil / natural gas war.

[FLEA]

8 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

There it is. If you disagree with me, it's a phobia.

 

It calls into question everything else you say.

Bro, I was called a simp for Putin. Get the f*** out of here with your non-sense and go reflect on your hypocrisy. 

[Random Guy]

People can express counterfactuals and develop contrarian takes. Its ok to discuss what could be, or what might be, or state some assumptions and develop an argument based on those assumptions.

Russia's tactics make alot more sense given a narrative of 'self-defense', compared to 'imperial intent'. Why leave the power on? Why ignore leadership targets? Why let the oil flow?

It all seems very odd. Imagine going into Iraq without striking any critical targets ahead of time. Zelensky is within striking distance, broadcasting from known locations, but they don't strike. Doesn't make much sense. 

[Lockjaw]

Short Ukrainian produced documentary about the helicopter resupply/CASEVAC runs in/out of Mariupol. All the interviewees are ground force guys, but there is some pretty good footage taken from the helos starting at around 21:00.

Here

[SurelySerious]

Bro, I was called a simp for Putin. 

Because you trash anyone who disagrees with you about Putin being in the wrong…and you keep reinforcing your inability to not be a total jackass on this topic with anyone who disagrees with you.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

Because you trash anyone who disagrees with you about Putin being in the wrong…and you keep reinforcing your inability to not be a total jackass on this topic with anyone who disagrees with you.

1.) I never said Putin wasn't in the wrong. I said he was working toward his country's interests. I've also said American holds some responsibility for aggression. That's a big difference. I don't like Putin, I don't particularly find him an admirable person and I generally detest dictators. Doesn't mean I don't think they can behave rationally which they often do to protect their power. Your inability to deduce nuance in this is telling. But I guess this is another "hoorah with us or against us freedom fries" issue for some isn't it? You think you're being absolutist pro American but all I see is people who are willing to squander limited national resources on foreign citizens instead of protecting the rights, security and interests of those at home. 

2.) You're the one being hostile. I haven't been active here for quite sometime, deliberately allowing time and space for cooler heads; all I did was post highlights of a dudes bio. Somehow that deserves name calling? Self reflect.... Maybe you need to take a timeout. Instead of professionally approaching it and saying "I'll just take this at face value" you decide to read into it and sling insults. 

[DirkDiggler]

  I for one am glad that my tax dollars are directly contributing to Russians burning to death in exploding combat vehicles.  Example above, St. Javelin doing work.

[FLEA]

5 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

  I for one am glad that my tax dollars are directly contributing to Russians burning to death in exploding combat vehicles.  Example above, St. Javelin doing work.

I have no problem providing equipment and materiel resource. We are committed at this point and that can't change. For better or for worse, the security in Europe is permanently altered and changed, and the most likely outcome is over the next decade we recede into another Cold War as Russia and China push new multi national ties to collaborate power against the West. In fact since the invasion became imminent, proxy war is the strategy I've advocated and I've repeated that multiple times, seemingly ignored each time I say it. Our opportunity for diplomacy ended in January. 

What I object to is this idea that we can act wontonly and brazen under the misbelief that the US or NATO is some undefeatable military power and that people who disagree with our world view need to go or we will kick them off the planet. It's not reality. I can't keep the FSS open four Thursdays a month, HTF am I going to attend state power warfare. 

But I thought we had already moved passed this and largely agreed that proxy war with politically numbed accelerated contributions was the best strategy given the situation. 

 

[SurelySerious]

1.) I never said Putin wasn't in the wrong. I said he was working toward his country's interests. I've also said American holds some responsibility for aggression. That's a big difference. I don't like Putin, I don't particularly find him an admirable person and I generally detest dictators. Doesn't mean I don't think they can behave rationally which they often do to protect their power. Your inability to deduce nuance in this is telling. But I guess this is another "hoorah with us or against us freedom fries" issue for some isn't it? You think you're being absolutist pro American but all I see is people who are willing to squander limited national resources on foreign citizens instead of protecting the rights, security and interests of those at home. 
2.) You're the one being hostile. I haven't been active here for quite sometime, deliberately allowing time and space for cooler heads; all I did was post highlights of a dudes bio. Somehow that deserves name calling? Self reflect.... Maybe you need to take a timeout. Instead of professionally approaching it and saying "I'll just take this at face value" you decide to read into it and sling insults. 

You can try convincing yourself of your moral superiority with fabricated truths like this post, but it doesn’t change what you have actually said and demonstrated.

[FLEA]

Just now, SurelySerious said:

You can try convincing yourself of your moral superiority with fabricated truths like this post, but it doesn’t change what you have actually said and demonstrated.

Not convincing myself of anything. And if I have said something that was taken by you to be so hurtful that you feel compelled to be this defensive than I'm truly sorry and I wish to re-baseline the professionalism. 

 

That said, I legitimately think you should reflect on your own vitriol which I've often felt was unfair and politically motivated as a means to uphold your points without a serious attempt to engage in a more meaningful or complex discussion. 

[Majestik Møøse]

Well I can’t be alone in thinking a new Cold War sure would be fun. It’ll most certainly get us back into actual space exploration.

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Well I can’t be alone in thinking a new Cold War sure would be fun. It’ll most certainly get us back into actual space exploration.

Side note: Had this exact conversation with my 14 year old yesterday as we watched an episode of “For All Mankind”. Great show for those who haven’t seen it. Posits the Soviet’s beat us to the moon & the space race heats up big time, leading to massive & rapid technological development. Maybe some great power competition is good for us. On the flip side, the renewed threat of mutual nuclear annihilation kinda sucks. 

[O Face]

31 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Side note: Had this exact conversation with my 14 year old yesterday as we watched an episode of “For All Mankind”. Great show for those who haven’t seen it. Posits the Soviet’s beat us to the moon & the space race heats up big time, leading to massive & rapid technological development. Maybe some great power competition is good for us. On the flip side, the renewed threat of mutual nuclear annihilation kinda sucks. 

Not to quibble, but after watching Russia’s absolute buffoonery on the battlefield daily, I sometimes wonder how “mutual” the nuclear destruction would be…not that I’m advocating finding out, but curious. 

[Prozac]

57 minutes ago, O Face said:

Not to quibble, but after watching Russia’s absolute buffoonery on the battlefield daily, I sometimes wonder how “mutual” the nuclear destruction would be…not that I’m advocating finding out, but curious. 

Yeah, me too, but they can have a high failure rate and still get a lot of warheads in the air. Not a discussion for this board but I often wonder what our non-kinetic capes are WRT the period between Putin giving the order and missiles in the air. 

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/Aihp0C36kQ1aTjWfBO2UYCg
 

also looks like we’re pushing the Ukrainians more HIMARS, which I think is very positive, wish we would’ve done this far earlier in the war.

[McJay Pilot]

Another fine example of high trained Russian crews with top of the line equipment…

Huzzah!

[DirkDiggler]

  Good to see HIMARS getting work done, hopefully they’ll start accurately putting Russian pigs in the dirt.

[DirkDiggler]

  Possible results of HIMARS action.

[uhhello]

7 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

  Possible results of HIMARS action.

Man, nothing like having a relaxing cigar on the balcony on Bastion when those fuckers would light off.

[TheNewGazmo]

Man, nothing like having a relaxing cigar on the balcony on Bastion when those ers would light off.

I remember them firing them off at Kandyland as well. Always made me wonder what we were actually shooting at.

[Prosuper]

I'm guessing the Russians have a pretty lax BMI measurement. Obese retired Russian general called to fight in Ukraine: report (nypost.com)