Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[Prozac]

5 hours ago, gearhog said:

Let me know if you find one. I'm not sympathetic to Russia. I don't care about nor have any interest in Russia. I hope their political system fails. I'm concerned about holding my own country to account and ensure that we maintain some semblance of being an objective force for good, and not lies, deceit, and corruption like the govt we're funding.

So you're just going to completely ignore my questions about what Russian influence you're concerned about? I wonder why.

LOL. Oh really? I immediately thought of this when I read that.

 

I'm not just creating these concerns out of thin air. I've done a little research before I've decided if my concerns were worth having. If anyone bothered to look at what occurred in Ukraine around 2014, this current crisis is not some noble endeavor to spread freedom and democracy. Around that time, Ukraine was being offered trade and economic incentives by the EU. Russia countered with an economic package of their own. President Yanukovych, who was elected in large part by Eastern Ukrainians who align with Russia. He began to indicate he favored the Russian deal. Obviously, this would mean a major loss to the EU and the US as they were counting on the economic and energy resources a country like Ukraine would bring to the struggling EU. Yanukovich had also signed a long term Sevastopol Naval Base lease with Russia.

None of this good for the West. Coincidentally around that time, pro-EU and Western Ukrainian nationalist protests broke out. They became violent and a coup took place. There were attacks on the LDPR aligned Ukrainians in the East by nationalist forces from the West. Poroshenko was installed and Eastern Ukraine was threatened with being barred from participation in elections. He also began negotiations with the West to remove the LDPR, terminate the Sevastopol naval base lease and lease it to NATO. Russia said "No." Invaded and took Crimea without firing a shot.

Russia was assisting LDPR in the east. They won battles against the Western Ukr. Then the UNSC sactioned Minsk agreements were to give LDPR autonomy, create a ceasefire, and remove foreign assistance from both sides. But those agreements were not adhered to, likely by either side. Conflict continued and a stalemate ensued. The West was getting impatient. In early 2021, Ukraine nationalists had a massive mobilization on the contact lines to take Eastern LDPR territories by force. They were receiving help from the US and NATO. Russia viewed this as a further expansion of NATO and began building forces on the border with Ukraine. You know the rest.

Uh.. yeah. Exactly. We shouldn't have been incurring any of these costs. If NATO didn't fund a Ukrainian civil war and the installation of a pro-Western government hell bent on NATO membership, none of those families and soldiers would have been apart, and we'd have saved billions.

This whole post reads like an RT special repor…..I mean Tucker Carlson rant. 

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

This whole post reads like an RT special repor…..I mean Tucker Carlson rant. 

yeah especially the part where he said “I hope the Russian political system fails”

straight from RT. 
 

ukraine has always been a corrupt nation. Funny how all the corruption magically went away once Russia invaded. 

[herkbum]

yeah especially the part where he said “I hope the Russian political system fails”
straight from RT. 
 
ukraine has always been a corrupt nation. Funny how all the corruption magically went away once Russia invaded. 

Didn’t go away, it just became en vogue and public to support it.


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[DirkDiggler]

Good work by the Ukrainian ADA this morning

[kaputt]

It’s that green in Ukraine in the winter? Old video?

[uhhello]

40 minutes ago, kaputt said:

It’s that green in Ukraine in the winter? Old video?

The wreckage is in snow covered ground 🙂

[Clark Griswold]

Good read on a decent idea methinks but likely low order of probability:

Here’s How Feasible The U.K. Giving Eurofighters To Ukraine Actually Is (thedrive.com)

Not a bad livery for it though...

 

[nsplayr]

The Ukrainians have mastered goose technology…it’s over like when Vince stuck his arm in the rim!

[GrndPndr]

11 hours ago, nsplayr said:

The Ukrainians have mastered goose technology…it’s over like when Vince stuck his arm in the rim!

When I saw the picture, I thought for sure there would be Canadians involved somehow.  Maybe it's just my goose hunting upbringing.

[nsplayr]

Biden on the ground in Kyiv showing continuing strong support for the Ukrainians 🇺🇦🇺🇸

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/20/president-biden-kyiv-ukraine-visit-war/

[arg]

5 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Biden on the ground in Kyiv showing continuing strong support for the Ukrainians 🇺🇦🇺🇸

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/20/president-biden-kyiv-ukraine-visit-war/

Cool, showing the "Big Guy" around. I want to hear every word spoken by any American to that government. That includes past trips there by Pelosi etc. You know there were private meetings.

I fully support helping Ukraine, spending money instead of our blood, but I want to know where every penny went. As a taxpayer I'm entitled to that info.

Edited February 21, 2023 by arg
Because

[Biff_T]

13 minutes ago, arg said:

... but I want to know where every penny went. As a taxpayer I'm entitled to that info.

[BashiChuni]

We’re gonna keep escalating this thing into WW3 

[Prozac]

12 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

We’re gonna keep escalating this thing into WW3 

Naahhh. Vlad and his cronies want to be alive to enjoy their expensive caviar, yachts, and whores. They’re not interested in Armageddon. We are holding the far better hand here, but some really, really want to see us fold. This is the most obvious bluff (on Putin’s part, in case you weren’t clear) in history. 

[O Face]

9 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Biden on the ground in Kyiv showing continuing strong support for the Ukrainians 🇺🇦🇺🇸

 

Every liberal the second Biden gets out of his seat and doesn’t act like a complete retard on the international stage.

[dream big]

9 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Biden on the ground in Kyiv showing continuing strong support for the Ukrainians 🇺🇦🇺🇸

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/02/20/president-biden-kyiv-ukraine-visit-war/

Theatrics that doesn’t help the Ukrainians in any way possible, and caused a lot of work for military folks in the AOR. All while in the middle of a massive HA/DR effort for Turkey. 
 

Biden probably thought he was in Moscow. We don’t need to parade this dude around anymore than we have to. Our credibility as a nation has suffered enough in the last few years. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by dream big

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Naahhh. Vlad and his cronies want to be alive to enjoy their expensive caviar, yachts, and whores. They’re not interested in Armageddon. We are holding the far better hand here, but some really, really want to see us fold. This is the most obvious bluff (on Putin’s part, in case you weren’t clear) in history. 

i want to see us not get involved in a major eastern european (non nato) land war...

[Prozac]

7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

i want to see us not get involved in a major eastern european (non nato) land war...

Agreed. You know who else really doesn’t want to see us/NATO get directly involved in the war? The Russians. ‘Cause they’ll get their dicks kicked in if that happens. They can threaten expansion of the war all they want, but they won’t because it makes zero sense for them. It’s an empty threat. 

[pawnman]

10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

We’re gonna keep escalating this thing into WW3 

Which country invaded which again? 

I cannot believe the amount of Putin simps in the military. A major near-peer adversary is getting their ass handed to them militarily, economically, and culturally, but because your guy isn't in the White House you're upset about it. 

[Hugo Stiglitz]

10 hours ago, dream big said:

caused a lot of work for military folks

The military having to do a lot of work at the behest of the commander in chief…ya really hate to see it. 

[BashiChuni]

36 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Which country invaded which again? 

I cannot believe the amount of Putin simps in the military. A major near-peer adversary is getting their ass handed to them militarily, economically, and culturally, but because your guy isn't in the White House you're upset about it. 

sure so lets start WW3 cause russia invaded ukraine (a non-nato state).

is that the logic you're using? this has nothing to do with politics my friend. i'm watching us lumber dangerously to WW3 and you're filled with glee! seems strange.

american blood and treasure should not be spent protecting ukraine. that's my position.

[ClearedHot]

9 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

american blood and treasure should not be spent protecting ukraine. that's my position.

Respect your opinion but I think you are wrong for a host of reasons. 

1.  While not a treaty, in 1994 we negotiated and signed the Budapest Agreement.  We promised to provide security for Ukraine in exchange for them giving up the third largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world.  This agreement made the world safer for almost 30 years.  Were you upset when we threw our promise to Afghanistan away and fled in the middle of the night?  We gave our word and at some point if we want to be respected as a world leader we have to honor our word. 

2.  For pennies on the dollar of our annual DoD budget we have enabled Ukraine to bleed a near-peer Superpower and relegate them to chump status.  Russia has taken STAGGERING losses.  Putin's grand plan to rebuild the Soviet Union died on the battlefield of Ukraine.  A lot of independent agencies have validated Russian losses.  Russia started the war with 3,000 operational tanks, in just over a year over 1,000 have been destroyed and a further 500 captured.  Half of their armor gone...HALF.  The UK Defense ministry estimates Russia has lost 200,000 soldiers in the war with Ukraine, with 60-80,000 of those being KIA.  I almost feel guilty for the average Russian soldier who was lied to by a despot dictator.  My sympathy ended when they started murdering civilians.  This conflict and our $113B investment has humbled Russia for generations to come.

I can't stand this administration for breaking our word to the Afghans and running away during the night but I applaud them for holding the line against Russia.  I think this also sends a strong message to China.

Again, all of pennies on the dollar and no blood from American soldiers (minus people who volunteered to go fight).

 

[Blue]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Which country invaded which again? 

I cannot believe the amount of Putin simps in the military. A major near-peer adversary is getting their ass handed to them militarily, economically, and culturally, but because your guy isn't in the White House you're upset about it. 

It's difficult to take your posts seriously when you start off with juvenile nonsense like "Putin simps," and then proceed to categorize every disagreement into some bullshit "red vs blue" narrative.

Be better.

[dream big]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The military having to do a lot of work at the behest of the commander in chief…ya really hate to see it. 

The same people in EUCOM who are currently running humanitarian relief efforts in Turkey had to deal with a PR distraction so Biden could get his photo op in Ukraine..don’t see a problem with that? Oh and later this week FLOTUS is taking a Safari to Kenya that precious resources get to be wasted on. You probably don’t see a problem with that either. 

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

 

2.  For pennies on the dollar of our annual DoD budget we have enabled Ukraine to bleed a near-peer Superpower and relegate them to chump status. 

 

That’s what it’s all about. 
 

also those weren’t Ukrainian nukes