Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[ClearedHot]

44 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

Thoroughly agree.  Unfortunately do you see a realistic outcome, under this administration's policies, where we don't fail to keep our word to Ukraine?  I am of the belief that "keeping our word to Ukraine" entails restoring the entirety of Ukraine's sovereign borders.  That's definitely how they see it.  I don't see any outcome where that happens with our current leadership.

The great game is always full of twists, turns and backroom deals.  You just never know what the final outcome will be.

I want Ukraine to regain it's pre-2014 invasion borders, partly because it honors our word, mostly because it will remove Putin from power and relegate him to the pile of failed despots and will likely stop any Russian aggression for a century.  If you play long-ball, Russia failing could lead to several more generations of relative peace in Europe.

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

works both ways. wasn't the democrat phrase during trump "RESIST!"

and didn't democrats falsify the steele dossier to hamstring trump with investigations of his alleged "russian ties" that turned out to be false allegations? a lot of "blind desire" to destroy the trump administration from the left.

TDS...liberals lost their minds during the entire trump administration...when a lot of his foreign policy (if you can ignore his childish theatrics) was sound. biden has been an abject disaster. afghanistan, inflation, mandatory vax still to enter the country, fighting in court to bring back travel mask mandate, ukraine escalation...etc etc etc

 

You would think the side that was the target of this disinformation for the last four years would be more wary of it, not more willing to spread it.

Sure, Biden's done a lot of dumb things that don't help the country.  But that doesn't mean absolutely everything he does is a disaster.  This is just Trump Derangement Syndrome, repackaged to target Biden.

[gearhog]

https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1628687961477750790?s=20

Edited February 23, 2023 by gearhog

[ClearedHot]

17 hours ago, pawnman said:

You would think the side that was the target of this disinformation for the last four years would be more wary of it, not more willing to spread it.

Sure, Biden's done a lot of dumb things that don't help the country.  But that doesn't mean absolutely everything he does is a disaster.  This is just Trump Derangement Syndrome, repackaged to target Biden.

We are so bifurcated by the pundits that have to assume everything the other guy/girl does is wrong.  I can't stand Biden, but he got this one right and I will certainly give credit where credit is due.  

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/A4WCDjMcHTRCX40vI217N2w
 

Not a generally a huge fan of the Atlantic but this article was pretty good/worth a read for analysis on possible outcomes to this war.

[Clark Griswold]

The Fullback is not having a great record in Ukraine-Russian war:

Russia's Su-34 Fullback Fighter-Bomber: Paper Tiger or Killer in Ukraine? - 19FortyFive

Kinda surprised but article gives some ideas about why that is, lack of modern weapons for the platform, training, friendly fire, mx issues, etc... but still interesting it has not been more survivable.  

Is the heavy fighter/bomber concept viable?  

Our version that was used heavily in combat, the F-105 in Vietnam, is largely derided but I think if you look at the whole record in context the Thud actually did well considering its design and the threats it faced (it flew 75% of the strikes over North Vietnam) and still had a slightly better than 1 to 1 kill ratio against MiGs (27.5 vs 17).

All that said, is this just a fault of the Su-34 not being equipped with the modern systems to fight/survive and supported by the other enabling assets or is the concept wrong?

[Lawman]

The Fullback is not having a great record in Ukraine-Russian war:
Russia's Su-34 Fullback Fighter-Bomber: Paper Tiger or Killer in Ukraine? - 19FortyFive
Kinda surprised but article gives some ideas about why that is, lack of modern weapons for the platform, training, friendly fire, mx issues, etc... but still interesting it has not been more survivable.  
Is the heavy fighter/bomber concept viable?  
Our version that was used heavily in combat, the F-105 in Vietnam, is largely derided but I think if you look at the whole record in context the Thud actually did well considering its design and the threats it faced (it flew 75% of the strikes over North Vietnam) and still had a slightly better than 1 to 1 kill ratio against MiGs (27.5 vs 17).
All that said, is this just a fault of the Su-34 not being equipped with the modern systems to fight/survive and supported by the other enabling assets or is the concept wrong?

The evidence is building from open source intel that the Russians have consumed a lot of their viable FMC ASE equipment and are now operating their KA-52s without it. We’re seeing shoot downs occur without any expenditures of flares or similar, and the post shoot down analysis of photos shows them either partially or completely not installed.

I don’t doubt their fixed wing aircraft are having similar problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, Clark Griswold said:

The Fullback is not having a great record in Ukraine-Russian war:

Russia's Su-34 Fullback Fighter-Bomber: Paper Tiger or Killer in Ukraine? - 19FortyFive

Kinda surprised but article gives some ideas about why that is, lack of modern weapons for the platform, training, friendly fire, mx issues, etc... but still interesting it has not been more survivable.  

Is the heavy fighter/bomber concept viable?  

Our version that was used heavily in combat, the F-105 in Vietnam, is largely derided but I think if you look at the whole record in context the Thud actually did well considering its design and the threats it faced (it flew 75% of the strikes over North Vietnam) and still had a slightly better than 1 to 1 kill ratio against MiGs (27.5 vs 17).

All that said, is this just a fault of the Su-34 not being equipped with the modern systems to fight/survive and supported by the other enabling assets or is the concept wrong?

I thinks more a combination of poor tactics, inability to effectively perform SEAD/DEAD, and lack of effective self protect against the IR threat than an issue with the platform.

Whatever makes them crash/burn quickly and contributes to mort’ing their aircrew is fine by me.

[VigilanteNav]

Air interdiction done dirt cheap.  Interesting to see the evolution of these systems after seeing the development of them as a threat to aircraft on the ground at the various locations in bad guy land.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by VigilanteNav

[Clark Griswold]

Copy all @Lawman @DirkDigglerand I think those are likely causes not the platform per se

It's a mixed bag of reviews on it, some articles said it did well in Syria (lower threat environment) and then there's the disappointing performance in Ukraine, seems from scanning a few it's a matter of training, tactics and modern sub-systems versus overall concept.

Not rooting for Russian AF also just to state that clearly as they are the only ones flying it there.  

[Sim]

https://rumble.com/v2atqge-sunday-special-ukrainistan-the-battleground-of-empires.html

Quote

On this must-see edition of the Human Events Sunday Special, Jack Posobiec tackles the 1-Year anniversary of the Ukraine - Russia War and how it is quickly turning into “Ukrainistan” for the West. Poso examins the realities of the ground war that has been raging as well as the information war that has been waged on people all over the world since the conflict began. Poso also breaks down the worst-case hypothetical scenario where a nuclear war breaks out between the world superpowers. The Cold War taught us many lessons but have they been forgotten? Poso examines what can be learned from that era and if total destruction can be avoided, all this and more on today’s HUMAN EVENTS DAILY!

Here’s your Daily dose of Human Events with @JackPosobiec

 

[BashiChuni]

biden and the global establishment are pulling us closer and closer to WW3

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/A4msnmJkKQOutX-GZzk_h6A
 

  Good news if true, Russia doesn’t have too many operational A-50s.

[StoleIt]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

biden and the global establishment are Putin is pulling us closer and closer to WW3

Fixed it for ya.

[VigilanteNav]

9 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

https://apple.news/A4msnmJkKQOutX-GZzk_h6A
 

  Good news if true, Russia doesn’t have too many operational A-50s.

The war that keeps on providing some pleasant surprises. Going to make using airfields in Belarus a bit more dicey. And, it happens while Lukashenko is in China and just about to start meetings there to boot!  Seems like it was very well timed by the "rebels".      

[Lawman]

biden and the global establishment are pulling us closer and closer to WW3

This guy succinctly explains in the first six and a half minutes why you’re viewpoint is completely out of contact with why we are doing this.

It’s not about widening a war it’s about preventing the war with NATO a phase before it can occur, because at this point the Russians are recognizing their only real card to play against NATO at this point is going to the nuclear assets.

Oh he’s also updated this presentation as the war has evolved, and for those that don’t think the Russians have a reason to destroy Nordstream, you really need to go look at the amount of damage not being able to readily get Natural Gas is about to do in the most powerful industrial base in the EU. It’ll hurt the Russians… but it will kill the Germans and by extension hobble the EUs economic ability to do anything. And deliberate sabotage vs just turning it off gives them the political card to play accusing the US and forcing political pressure to lessen aid to Ukraine (as we are now actively seeing calls for).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

 

 

This guy succinctly explains in the first six and a half minutes why you’re viewpoint is completely out of contact with why we are doing this.

It’s not about widening a war it’s about preventing the war with NATO a phase before it can occur, because at this point the Russians are recognizing their only real card to play against NATO at this point is going to the nuclear assets.

Oh he’s also updated this presentation as the war has evolved, and for those that don’t think the Russians have a reason to destroy Nordstream, you really need to go look at the amount of damage not being able to readily get Natural Gas is about to do in the most powerful industrial base in the EU. It’ll hurt the Russians… but it will kill the Germans and by extension hobble the EUs economic ability to do anything. And deliberate sabotage vs just turning it off gives them the political card to play accusing the US and forcing political pressure to lessen aid to Ukraine (as we are now actively seeing calls for).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1. my viewpoint is ukraine is not nato. fact. and we should avoid fighting ww3

2. nordstream pipeline could easily have been accomplished by the west. and probably was.

it is totally about widening a war...biden and blinken had the chance to deescalate and they have done NOTHING but throw gas onto the fire.

hell the only calls for peace are coming from the CHINESE!

[Lawman]

1. my viewpoint is ukraine is not nato. fact. and we should avoid fighting ww3
2. nordstream pipeline could easily have been accomplished by the west. and probably was.
it is totally about widening a war...biden and blinken had the chance to deescalate and they have done NOTHING but throw gas onto the fire.
hell the only calls for peace are coming from the CHINESE!

Tell us you didn’t watch the video without telling us you didn’t watch it…

Dude lays out exactly why waiting for Russia to invade Poland/Latvia/Estonia/etc is suicide at about the 6 minute mark…

At 25 minutes he explains why something like Nordstream would happen intentionally…


Yes we get it, it’s not Tucker Carlson but this guy briefs strategic level government officials and key notes seminars on energy and agriculture industry leaders and investors. Tucker… briefs people living in trailer parks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

I didn’t watch your 25 minute video. Let me guess he’s an “expert” and I should “trust the experts”. Got it. 
 

maybe I’ll watch it between ski runs today, but probably not. I’ve stated my positions and it’s my opinion. I guess the only thing left for you to do is censor me and let the media narrative take hold. 
 

 

[Lawman]

I didn’t watch your 25 minute video. Let me guess he’s an “expert” and I should “trust the experts”. Got it. 
 
maybe I’ll watch it between ski runs today, but probably not. I’ve stated my positions and it’s my opinion. I guess the only thing left for you to do is censor me and let the media narrative take hold. 
 
 

Your opinion is noted. It’s stupid and Ill-informed but noted. Here is a chance to actually educate yourself on the why of what’s going on and how waiting for Russia to attack NATO is stupid.

“Expert” in quotes, adorable.
Yeah it’s probably pretty fair to say he’s a crap load more qualifiedto discuss the nuance of this and why it’s critical while maintaining an apolitical stance while you deliberately drag up Biden and Blinken. Dude routinely lampoons Biden, Trump, and Obama so he’s hardly some unqualified political narrative talking head.

He isn’t the media, he’s a well circulated published author and does strategic policy seminars for billion dollar investment groups and government strategic planning. So yeah, it’s fair to say he’s probably decently qualified at his job and pretty accurate in his interpretations considering the amount of money that kind of influence its being steered by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

So wanting to avoid going to war to protect a country who is not in nato is “stupid and ill-informed”? Amazing. 
 

a country that a few years ago was the target of western media? Hmmmmm. I think you may be the brain washed one 

 

ps I bring up Biden and blinken for obvious reasons…

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by BashiChuni

[nsplayr]

There’s no convincing some folks here and TBH it’s not worth trying that hard.

Pro tip: don’t vote for someone who shares @BashiChuni’s views in the 2024 primary or general unless you are comfortable with a radical change in policy toward Ukraine come Jan 2025. It’s not my top issue and probably not you’re either, but I at least think it’s important!

And can some of my Republican friends get Ronny D a copy of some of Ronny R’s greatest hits and get him on the side of opposing Russian tyranny in Eastern Europe? Seems like it should be a layup for any Republican, but I think he’s been reluctant to go that direction due to the base being at least 45.69% in favor of completely capitulating to Putin. 🤦‍♂️

Reasonable Dems and Republicans can agree: Putin sucks, he’s failing in his war of conquest, and we’re getting amazing value by supporting the Ukrainians as well as actually doing the right thing morally, which in this case to me at least is crystal clear. Let’s not give up before the fight is over.

Edited February 27, 2023 by nsplayr

[Lawman]

So wanting to avoid going to war to protect a country who is not in nato is “stupid and ill-informed”? Amazing. 
 

In a word… Yes. Because we aren’t “going to war” and again that could be explained to you in about 6 minutes.

You’ve spent more time arguing with me than it would take to educate yourself as to why the strategic policy makers are doing what they are doing in regards to arming Ukraine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

Well I was right about COVID and I’ll be right about Ukraine too. It’s simple just follow the money 

[BashiChuni]

32 minutes ago, Lawman said:

 

In a word… Yes. Because we aren’t “going to war” 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I hope you’re right. We’re certainly trending that way. It just takes one false flag or one Miscalculation. Biden already is saying we will do “whatever it takes”. 
 

and because I have a different opinion than you I’m uneducated on the topic? Pretty fucking arrogant to think that. same arrogance the COVID “experts” had. Same “arrogance” the intelligence experts had when they signed the memo promising hunters laptop was “Russian disinformation”. 
 

Edited February 27, 2023 by BashiChuni