Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[pawnman]

17 hours ago, Pooter said:

Well that's weird, because China's manufacturing quality is also known to be shit, but the moment they got their hands on sensitive F-35 tech data they made the most credible adversary threat aircraft basically out of nowhere.. up to that point only having borrowed Russian designs for decades.  
 

Russia also still makes superior jet engines to China so I don't buy that Russia just doesn't have the machining tolerances to do stealth. 

Yeah, look at that precision machining...

 

 

[brabus]

Russian advanced tech, sponsored by the Russian Home Depot. 

[uhhello]

2 hours ago, FourFans said:

They might, but then they actually assemble the jets with superglue and the aerospace equivalent of drywalls screws that are left exposed.  Lo-vis?  Sure.  Stealth?  No.

And produced a whopping 21 aircraft

Edited August 24, 2023 by uhhello

[Biff_T]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Yeah, look at that precision machining...

 

 

They need to countersink those screws a little more.  Lol

[VigilanteNav]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:56 PM, ecugringo said:

Plane crash north of Moscow.  Prigozhin was on the passenger list.

Going to be interesting to see how the Wagner Group moves forward (assuming it was actually him on that plane). Reportedly with his #2 on board as well, hopefully it ceases to exist as a functional organization. I imagine there are a few questions in Africa right now seeing as he seemingly was just there. On the surface an easy call for Putin, but he must have some real heartburn in terms of how effective Wagner was in many a Russian foreign adventure.  The ISW's analysis is interesting...     

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 24, 2023 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

Edited August 25, 2023 by VigilanteNav
Added the ISW's analysis of the demise of Prigozhin.

[Danger41]

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/us-train-ukrainian-pilots-f-16-air-national-guard-base/
 

Arizona ANG to train Ukrainian Viper pilots and maintainers.

[GrndPndr]

On 8/24/2023 at 12:21 PM, Biff_T said:

They need to countersink those screws a little more.  Lol

It looks like they used body filler near that leading edge.

[HeyEng]

 

[BashiChuni]

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

You're right... we should definitely just let Russia invade whoever they want. 

[brabus]

What would be nice is if we found the middle ground solution: support our interests abroad (e.g. help RUS crumble) while still prioritizing homeland defense (e.g. border security). I’m not anti-UKR involvement, but I am anti-how much we put into that vs. how little our gov gives a fuck about our non-existent southern border. We’re doing a horrendous job at prioritizing national defense actions, and that’s what pisses people off the most in my opinion.

[HeloDude]

52 minutes ago, brabus said:

What would be nice is if we found the middle ground solution: support our interests abroad (e.g. help RUS crumble) while still prioritizing homeland defense (e.g. border security). I’m not anti-UKR involvement, but I am anti-how much we put into that vs. how little our gov gives a fuck about our non-existent southern border. We’re doing a horrendous job at prioritizing national defense actions, and that’s what pisses people off the most in my opinion.

It’s almost as if politics/ideology is keeping the the US from securing its borders…but that would be a conspiracy theory I’m sure.

[raimius]

10 hours ago, HeloDude said:

It’s almost as if politics/ideology is keeping the the US from securing its borders…but that would be a conspiracy theory I’m sure.

Neither side will fix it.  Neither wants to take responsibility or give up anything when they can scream about how bad the other party is.

[HeloDude]

8 minutes ago, raimius said:

Neither side will fix it.  Neither wants to take responsibility or give up anything when they can scream about how bad the other party is.

I agree on the fixing part.  But one party actively wants to suppress enforcing border security wrt illegal immigration.

[bfargin]

I have no idea on retired Col Mcgregors pedigree, but he makes some interesting points. He thinks Russia’s military is stronger now, after more than a year of war in Ukraine than it’s been in over 30 years. Increased war production capability and renewed national resolve. Has our plan to weaken and undermine Russia backfired spectacularly?
 

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1693761723230990509?s=46

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, bfargin said:

I have no idea on retired Col Mcgregors pedigree, but he makes some interesting points. He thinks Russia’s military is stronger now, after more than a year of war in Ukraine than it’s been in over 30 years. Increased war production capability and renewed national resolve. Has our plan to weaken and undermine Russia backfired spectacularly?
 

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1693761723230990509?s=46

I don't know how you make the claim that a military digging out 60's Era equipment and buying ammo from North Korea is stronger...

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

I don't know how you make the claim that a military digging out 60's Era equipment and buying ammo from North Korea is stronger...

Yeah, that doesn't add up. The best case scenario is that you get experienced soldiers from this, but with so many soldiers in Russia being conscripted, it is unlikely they will have a whole lot of people sticking with the military whenever this fiasco is over.

 

[bfargin]

Ukraine has about 500k dead and injured now, so it’s def not going well for them. If you listened, he does at least acknowledge the complexity and huge risk of not working on a peace deal sooner than later. Again I’m not sure how in the know he is, but he’s pointing out the obvious fact that Ukraine is not winning. He thinks we’re essentially destroying a nation by encouraging them not to seek peace.

On the last point, he seems correct for sure.

[DirkDiggler]

7 hours ago, bfargin said:

I have no idea on retired Col Mcgregors pedigree, but he makes some interesting points. He thinks Russia’s military is stronger now, after more than a year of war in Ukraine than it’s been in over 30 years. Increased war production capability and renewed national resolve. Has our plan to weaken and undermine Russia backfired spectacularly?
 

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1693761723230990509?s=46

He's about as pro-Putin/Russia you can get as an American short of actually owing a dacha outside Moscow.  Actually appeared on RT in 2014 defending Putin's seizure of the Donbas and Crimea.  His talking points on Carlson's shows have been re-broadcast on RT.  He's consistently argued that Ukraine is on the verge of defeat during the entire war.  He further stated that Russia was "too gentle" in the opening phase of the invasion, something that the citizens of Bucha probably disagree with. 

  I understand that there's people who don't support us helping Ukraine (for various reasons) but I truly can't understand how anyone outside of Russia can be supportive of Russia's actions during this war.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, bfargin said:

Ukraine has about 500k dead and injured now, so it’s def not going well for them. If you listened, he does at least acknowledge the complexity and huge risk of not working on a peace deal sooner than later. Again I’m not sure how in the know he is, but he’s pointing out the obvious fact that Ukraine is not winning. He thinks we’re essentially destroying a nation by encouraging them not to seek peace.

On the last point, he seems correct for sure.

There is a very wide gulf between "Ukraine is struggling as this war continues" and "Russia is stronger now than they were before the invasion".

There's probably some merit in the idea that Russia can eventually win just through sheer weight of manpower. I don't see any merit in the idea that they're better off militarily now than they were in 2019...

[bfargin]

1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said:

He's about as pro-Putin/Russia you can get as an American short of actually owing a dacha outside Moscow.  Actually appeared on RT in 2014 defending Putin's seizure of the Donbas and Crimea.  His talking points on Carlson's shows have been re-broadcast on RT.  He's consistently argued that Ukraine is on the verge of defeat during the entire war.  He further stated that Russia was "too gentle" in the opening phase of the invasion, something that the citizens of Bucha probably disagree with. 

  I understand that there's people who don't support us helping Ukraine (for various reasons) but I truly can't understand how anyone outside of Russia can be supportive of Russia's actions during this war.

Thanks. I've not studied that region of the world much but I know it's more complicated (Russia vs. europe) than many suggest and it's not a simple Russia bad and Ukraine good situation. Hopefully he didn't actually support or celebrate the Russian invasion of a sovereign nation (I can't find where he's doing that). 

Russia needs to offer peace to Ukraine immediately, and we need to help facilitate that peace. Some kind of compromise at this point is better than the wholesale destruction of Ukraine.

[uhhello]

10 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Thanks. I've not studied that region of the world much but I know it's more complicated (Russia vs. europe) than many suggest and it's not a simple Russia bad and Ukraine good situation. Hopefully he didn't actually support or celebrate the Russian invasion of a sovereign nation (I can't find where he's doing that). 

Russia needs to offer peace to Ukraine immediately, and we need to help facilitate that peace. Some kind of compromise at this point is better than the wholesale destruction of Ukraine.

At what point would you stop fighting if a foreign power invaded the USA?  Agreed that there are many factors on both sides here in play but the Ukrainian's aren't fighting because we're telling them to 🙂 We are helping them through a fuck ton of money and weaponry but ultimately if they want to surrender, its up to them.  

[bfargin]

5 minutes ago, uhhello said:

At what point would you stop fighting if a foreign power invaded the USA?  Agreed that there are many factors on both sides here in play but the Ukrainian's aren't fighting because we're telling them to 🙂 We are helping them through a fuck ton of money and weaponry but ultimately if they want to surrender, its up to them.  

Apples to oranges and even I know that. The Ukraine - Russia relationship is not like any relationship we've had as a nation beside possibly with England (though even thats not really the same). There were about 3 to 5 million Russians living in Ukraine before the war started. They speak the same language and were part of the same Nation (USSR) for many years. Not the same situation at all.

But, to play your game/question ... If we were about to be completely obliterated and the invader offered us a chance to keep most of the US intact but give back part of the region that already had many of "their people" living there, I'd negotiate peace.  

[uhhello]

6 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Apples to oranges and even I know that. The Ukraine - Russia relationship is not like any relationship we've had as a nation beside possibly with England (though even thats not really the same). There were about 3 to 5 million Russians living in Ukraine before the war started. They speak the same language and were part of the same Nation (USSR) for many years. Not the same situation at all.

But, to play your game/question ... If we were about to be completely obliterated and the invader offered us a chance to keep most of the US intact but give back part of the region that already had many of "their people" living there, I'd negotiate peace.  

Sure thing bud.  Mexico invades and annexes southern halves of az and tx.  Lots of Mexican heritage and blood there.  It’s fine. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by uhhello

[pawnman]

56 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Apples to oranges and even I know that. The Ukraine - Russia relationship is not like any relationship we've had as a nation beside possibly with England (though even thats not really the same). There were about 3 to 5 million Russians living in Ukraine before the war started. They speak the same language and were part of the same Nation (USSR) for many years. Not the same situation at all.

But, to play your game/question ... If we were about to be completely obliterated and the invader offered us a chance to keep most of the US intact but give back part of the region that already had many of "their people" living there, I'd negotiate peace.  

Russia also treated Ukraine pretty brutally and starved several million people there... maybe there's a reason Ukraine isn't in a hurry to surrender.