Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[BashiChuni]

[HeloDude]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Should littering be legal?

Depends who owns the land that someone is throwing their trash on.  If you own the land, then sure, why not?  If it’s not my land, then I need to respect the rules for whoever owns the land.  But pretty far stretch to bring up littering when others on here don’t have a problem with sending people to die in war against their will or putting citizens in prison just because of their ethnic backgrounds.

[HeloDude]

3 hours ago, Stoker said:

We conscripted people to fight in the American Revolution.

Slavery was supported by the government then too…

[BashiChuni]

I don’t know the context of this video but it’s wild

 

 

[McJay Pilot]

32 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

I don’t know the context of this video but it’s wild

 

 

What. The. F.

Also, damn that is a sturdy camera!

Edited December 15, 2023 by McJay Pilot
Afterthought

[herkbum]

What. The. F.
Also, damn that is a sturdy camera!

Strange, my 1st thought was the exact same about the camera.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Lord Ratner]

12 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Depends who owns the land that someone is throwing their trash on.  If you own the land, then sure, why not?  If it’s not my land, then I need to respect the rules for whoever owns the land.  But pretty far stretch to bring up littering when others on here don’t have a problem with sending people to die in war against their will or putting citizens in prison just because of their ethnic backgrounds.

I'm just trying to figure out where your boundaries are. I'm sure it seems crystal clear to you, but the rest of us are struggling with it.

 

Did you happen to come up with any examples of free countries that survived a peer- or near-peer attack without conscription? I was unable to.

 

Same for taxation. Though the income tax came later, even the founders understood the necessity of compulsory taxation.

 

I'm not seeing where the "if it was really worth it people would just do it" basis for a political foundation is actually demonstrated in any sort of successful society. Kind of makes it easy to lump with communism due to its apparent unrealistic idealism.

 

I also haven't seen anybody support putting people in prison due to their ethnic background. You brought up internment, but no one actually argued that that policy was justified or moral. You just kind of threw it in there with conscription because they were both examples of things the government has done. But I don't think anybody here has argued that just because conscription is okay, all government action must therefore be okay.

 

 

[ViperMan]

14 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Depends who owns the land that someone is throwing their trash on.  If you own the land, then sure, why not?  If it’s not my land, then I need to respect the rules for whoever owns the land.  But pretty far stretch to bring up littering when others on here don’t have a problem with sending people to die in war against their will or putting citizens in prison just because of their ethnic backgrounds.

Easy solution? If you get conscripted you can turn it down, but you have to leave the country and forfeit your citizenship. No free lunch. If you want to be a part of society, you have to play. You don't get to continue being a citizen in the country to which you are unwilling to provide a service to.

[Danger41]

5 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I don’t know the context of this video but it’s wild

 

 

Schedule was about done when it was revealed the ADO was non-current.

[DSG]

20 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Easy solution? If you get conscripted you can turn it down, but you have to leave the country and forfeit your citizenship. No free lunch. If you want to be a part of society, you have to play. You don't get to continue being a citizen in the country to which you are unwilling to provide a service to.

Few people contribute anything of value to society as it is.  I don't know that hypothetical draft dodgers should be singled out in that sense.

[Random Guy]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:36 PM, Lord Ratner said:

 

Same for taxation. Though the income tax came later, even the founders understood the necessity of compulsory taxation.

 

"To promote federal taxes, Morris meanwhile began proposing that the Congress collect a 5 percent tax on all imports countrywide. That tax is known to readers of founding history as “the impost,” and it was subject to famous political battles in the wartime Congress, involving the early collaboration of Madison and Hamilton. Today the impost can sound innocuous and logical. It would tax only imports, not products made in America, not land, not income. But many books on the period don’t mention that the impost wasn’t intended to supply the army or pay soldiers but to pay federal bondholders their interest. Many also don’t mention that, to Morris, the impost on foreign goods was only a wedge. Once people were inured to direct federal taxation, Morris told his followers, federal poll taxes, land taxes, and excise taxes would follow. To ensure payment to the creditors, Morris intended, as he’d put it before, to open the purses of the people. The federal impost faced stiff opposition in the Congress. Taxing power was sovereign power, and many states had no intention of giving it away. At first Morris hoped to slip the federal impost through Congress as just one more revenue bill: it took only nine states to ratify such a measure. The state legislatures, however, quickly recognized the tax bill for what it was, a revision of the articles by which the confederation had been formed. Any amendment required unanimous approval of the member states. So Hamilton and Madison began collaborating in the cause of federal taxation. They were lawyers. Hoping to get the impost through without having to submit to the amendment process, they looked for existing legal powers to impose taxes on the states. In later years, Hamilton would be accused—by Madison—of concocting a doctrine of “implied powers” of government: anything a body is explicitly empowered to do, the doctrine says, implies other, inexplicit powers necessary to getting that thing done."

 

Taxes and federal debt never worked the way most people think they do. 

 

Founding Finance: How Debt, Speculation, Foreclosures, Protests, and Crackdowns Made Us a Nation (Discovering America) https://a.co/d/7pL34T6

 

 

[skibum]

Sheesh -- I used to look at this discussion to see all the cool footage of Russians getting blasted. Now it's just a whining, political buzz kill. Why don't you tools take the boring crap offline already.

Here's a photo of dead Russians to help get this thread back on track.

[uhhello]

25 minutes ago, skibum said:

Sheesh -- I used to look at this discussion to see all the cool footage of Russians getting blasted. Now it's just a whining, political buzz kill. Why don't you tools take the boring crap offline already.

Here's a photo of dead Russians to help get this thread back on track.

It's tough to look at this bullshit anymore because it's truly either guys forced (conscripts, criminals) to fight in a war that they have no part in creating or stopping.  Truly incompetent leadership with no sense of military tactics or strategy, just send some dudes forward to hold some trench with no food, ammo, or support.  The comm intercepts are insane.  The armor losses are insane.  

[BashiChuni]

34 minutes ago, skibum said:

Sheesh -- I used to look at this discussion to see all the cool footage of Russians getting blasted. Now it's just a whining, political buzz kill. Why don't you tools take the boring crap offline already.

Here's a photo of dead Russians to help get this thread back on track.

yeah....cause WAR! and killing! YEAH! AMERICA!

[bfargin]

1 hour ago, skibum said:

Sheesh -- I used to look at this discussion to see all the cool footage of Russians getting blasted. Now it's just a whining, political buzz kill. Why don't you tools take the boring crap offline already.

Here's a photo of dead Russians to help get this thread back on track.

 

Thats FUBAR. I'm not sure how/why you're getting off on seeing dead soldiers, much less soldiers from a country we aren't at war with. Putin sucks and Russia has no business in Ukraine, but I'm not happily celebrating that any of them are dying.

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, bfargin said:

Thats FUBAR. I'm not sure how/why you're getting off on seeing dead soldiers, much less soldiers from a country we aren't at war with. Putin sucks and Russia has no business in Ukraine, but I'm not happily celebrating that any of them are dying.

Agreed.  ISIS & AQ were deeply depraved and it bothered me not all to collect scalps.  But jerking off to pictures of dead Russian conscripts (If that’s even what we’re looking at)?  Count me out bro.

[brabus]

If you have blood lust/celebrate killing, you either haven’t done it, or you have and you’re a psychopath. Doing what must be done is most effective when you don’t do it/take it too far for emotional reasons. 

[Random Guy]

7 hours ago, skibum said:

Sheesh -- I used to look at this discussion to see all the cool footage of Russians getting blasted. Now it's just a whining, political buzz kill. Why don't you tools take the boring crap offline already.

Here's a photo of dead Russians to help get this thread back on track.

Why are boomers still so upset at Russia, that they want to look at pictures of dead kids who were born in Russia after the cold war?

[Random Guy]

And please, guys, there is no collection of coins that elves come by to collect to send to Ukraine. Money is just numbers typed into a computer. You can type lots of numbers into an account on the Fed ledger to buy weapons you make yourself, or goods and services produced abroad. It has zero impact on domestic spending capability.

[BashiChuni]

1 minute ago, Random Guy said:

 Money is just numbers typed into a computer. You can type lots of numbers into an account

and that's the problem my friend.

[uhhello]

Baghdad bob school of pr grad

 

 

[Swizzle]

9 hours ago, Random Guy said:

And please, guys, there is no collection of coins that elves come by to collect to send to Ukraine. Money is just numbers typed into a computer. You can type lots of numbers into an account on the Fed ledger to buy weapons you make yourself, or goods and services produced abroad. It has zero impact on domestic spending capability.

Naive. Eventually one must pay the piper/bondholders. 

Perhaps you mean modern monetary theory is "free" until critical mass of debt-load is achieved? 

...in the end, like the pied piper poem, the children will suffer. 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45818/the-pied-piper-of-hamelin

[ViperMan]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:59 AM, DSG said:

Few people contribute anything of value to society as it is.  I don't know that hypothetical draft dodgers should be singled out in that sense.

I didn't say we don't need to make manifold other changes...

[Random Guy]

5 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Naive. Eventually one must pay the piper/bondholders. 

Perhaps you mean modern monetary theory is "free" until critical mass of debt-load is achieved? 

...in the end, like the pied piper poem, the children will suffer. 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45818/the-pied-piper-of-hamelin

OMG a critical mass of interest paying assets! Imagine all the interest cashflows to bank accounts! NOOOOoooooooo...... 

[uhhello]

Russians lost three SU-34 yesterday.  UKR must have cooked up something special.