Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[BashiChuni]

[nsplayr]

We're all better informed by listening to Duran Duran than to reading straight-from-the-source Russian propaganda like The Duran. Agree with helping Ukraine, disagree with doing that, that's all fine; that particular source of "information" is incredibly bad. It's unmitigated BS and propaganda designed to entice Westerners to support pro-Russian policies.

Side note: IDK how some of you guys even watch 2+ hour long video podcasts where it's just 2-4 blurry guys babbling on and S-ing each other's intellectual D-s the whole time. It's literally the most mind-numbing thing I've ever encountered.

Here's a recommendation for what to spend your time with tonight:

 

Edited April 22 by nsplayr

[BashiChuni]

ah yes the "you don't agree with my view point so you are russian propaganda" view.

very persuasive!

david sacks. known KGB agent.

Edited April 22 by BashiChuni

[Lawman]

ah yes the "you don't agree with my view point so you are russian propaganda" view.
very persuasive!
david sacks. known KGB agent.

In this case you are quoting a literal Russian Psyop outlet.



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[ClearedHot]

10 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Where do you guys look for all this info? Genuinely curious.

Live updated Frontline Map

Institute for the study of war -  Great site founded by retired General Jack Keene - They have a VERY good interactive map as well.

BBC has a good site as well (they leverage the Institute for War's maps with their own reporting and analysis).

A bit gruesome at times but Reddit/combat hosts new videos of the conflict everyday.  Three themes emerged in the video:

1.  Early on the Javelin stopped the Russians cold, now they don't attempt large maneuver actions unless they absolutely pummel an area pre-strike with artillery.

2.  Ukraine has been very effective at combined arms.  Even through they don't have Air Superiority, they have used drones to coordinate fires in both TICs and interdiction.

3.  Small drones have changed warfare.  Hundreds of videos of drones dropping grenades AND being uses in a kamikaze roll to chase down individual soldiers...it is chilling to watch.  If someone added AI...

They have noted some gains by Russia in recent week which they attribute to the Ukrainians running short of long-range strike weapons and air defense.  If the Senate approves the aid package those systems will start to flow on Friday.

Also interesting to note the perceptions of those who voted against the aid, they think we are sending Ukraine pallets of cash which in fact $50B will flow into the U.S. Industrial Base creating jobs in 30 states.

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

In this case you are quoting a literal Russian Psyop outlet.
 

This made me wonder if we also have any Psyop outlets. If so, what would they be?

[slc]

22 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

now they don't attempt large maneuver actions unless they absolutely pummel an area pre-strike with artillery.

Funny thing is this has been the Soviets modus since their invasion of Afghanistan.  Pummel the Muj w/ artillery and air and then follow up w/ and infantry sweep 

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, slc said:

Funny thing is this has been the Soviets modus since their invasion of Afghanistan.  Pummel the Muj w/ artillery and air and then follow up w/ and infantry sweep 

Oddly, they didn't win despite a huge ramp to their industrial base and the employment of millions of rounds of artillery, airstrike and even chemical weapons.  It's almost like an adversary employing asymmetric tactics (Stinger), blunted their advantage, bled them until they packed up and went home.  Who would have thought...

[HeloDude]

15 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

…until they packed up and went home.

Sounds familiar…2021?  I’m a big of fan of the “Hearts and Minds” strategy—it’s been working so well the several decades.

[Lord Ratner]

22 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Oddly, they didn't win despite a huge ramp to their industrial base and the employment of millions of rounds of artillery, airstrike and even chemical weapons.  It's almost like an adversary employing asymmetric tactics (Stinger), blunted their advantage, bled them until they packed up and went home.  Who would have thought...

Are you sure the Afghans didn't just have superior firepower, superior numbers, a deeply secure anti-corruption apparatus, and direct support from US military units?

 

Because I've been told that's the only way Ukraine has a chance here...

[Lawman]

This made me wonder if we also have any Psyop outlets. If so, what would they be?

If you are trying to compare “mass mainstream profit driven media” to state funded controlled media as equal in their dangerousness or level of deliberate subversion you aren’t making an accurate comparison.

That’s like saying driving above the posted speed limit and drunk driving are both risky behaviors and their for equal in danger value to those that do them.


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[Negatory]

3 hours ago, gearhog said:

This made me wonder if we also have any Psyop outlets. If so, what would they be?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/cia-and-committee-free-asia-under-project-dtpillar
 

Interesting how Americans don’t get taught about these things. Still operating by the way.

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

If you are trying to compare “mass mainstream profit driven media” to state funded controlled media as equal in their dangerousness or level of deliberate subversion you aren’t making an accurate comparison.

That’s like saying driving above the posted speed limit and drunk driving are both risky behaviors and their for equal in danger value to those that do them.


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I thought you were talking about a Russian podcast since that was the example you provided. I just wondered if we had an equivalent state funded controlled media foreign propaganda outlet.

58 minutes ago, Negatory said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/cia-and-committee-free-asia-under-project-dtpillar
 

Interesting how Americans don’t get taught about these things. Still operating by the way.

...And apparently we do, although they may not have the power and reach of the 250th ranked podcast in the US. Thanks, I was completely unaware that these existed. I am happy to know they aren't dangerous or subversive, because I wouldn't want to know that we were being hypocritical.

[Lawman]

...And apparently we do, although they may not have the power and reach of the 250th ranked podcast in the US. Thanks, I was completely unaware that these existed. I am happy to know they aren't dangerous or subversive, because I wouldn't want to know that we were being hypocritical.

No I was pointing out that specific podcast from the absolute absurd claim by our local useful idiot that everything on our side is a lie and the proof is on a dubious state funded post cast used by the Russians to advance their BS.

And if you want to go down the “do we have Psyop” you should see what happened to all our actions post peace dividends. We basically unfunded that part of the State Dept and wonder why so many places seem to be cozy with China over Belt and Roads.

Diplomacy/statecraft/foreign policy is my A-holes vs the other sides A-holes, and I know which one has my and my children’s better interests in mind.


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[HeloDude]

So how long before Ukraine asks for more money/resources once this $60B or whatever is used up?  A year, give or take?

[gearhog]

5 minutes ago, Lawman said:

No I was pointing out that specific podcast from the absolute absurd claim by our local useful idiot that everything on our side is a lie and the proof is on a dubious state funded post cast used by the Russians to advance their BS.

And if you want to go down the “do we have Psyop” you should see what happened to all our actions post peace dividends. We basically unfunded that part of the State Dept and wonder why so many places seem to be cozy with China over Belt and Roads.

Diplomacy/statecraft/foreign policy is my A-holes vs the other sides A-holes, and I know which one has my and my children’s better interests in mind.

Curious, do you ever read what you write from the perspective of someone else? You often make some good points, yet sometimes post things that are bizarre. These things jump off the page when I read them as glaringly obvious. Perhaps you don't realize name-calling and hyperbole in the first sentence makes your position seem weaker.

You seem to be affirming that "Yes, we do have PsyOp programs" and "the ends justifies the means", which is a widely accepted Machiavellian principle. That those means won't also be used against you should your interests diverge seems incredibly naive.

And lastly, you seem to be calling the people on your side A-holes while simultaneously expressing faith that those same assholes have you and your children's best interests in mind. It seems completely inverted because you're the one defending them for foreign policy decisions that will result in conflict for you and your family. You care about them more than they care about you. I'm not trying to attack you, but it does seem crazy to me.

 

 

[Biff_T]

13 hours ago, nsplayr said:

We're all better informed by listening to Duran Duran

Lol.  Hungry Like the Wolf is the best Duran Duran song.  Excellent choice kind sir!

[Lawman]

Curious, do you ever read what you write from the perspective of someone else? You often make some good points, yet sometimes post things that are bizarre. These things jump off the page when I read them as glaringly obvious. Perhaps you don't realize name-calling and hyperbole in the first sentence makes your position seem weaker.
You seem to be affirming that "Yes, we do have PsyOp programs" and "the ends justifies the means", which is a widely accepted Machiavellian principle. That those means won't also be used against you should your interests diverge seems incredibly naive.
And lastly, you seem to be calling the people on your side A-holes while simultaneously expressing faith that those same assholes have you and your children's best interests in mind. It seems completely inverted because you're the one defending them for foreign policy decisions that will result in conflict for you and your family. You care about them more than they care about you. I'm not trying to attack you, but it does seem crazy to me.
 
 

That guy is advancing Russian propaganda now openly admitted in a site full of professional military officers from various points of perspective to all call him out on his stupidity.

He is a Shill, and yet he continues to do it. Sorry but not sorry whatever he did in whatever life before he pretty much flushed to become that old crazy Vet on your street screaming about whatever “liberal conspiracy” or other noise.

And you’re feigning ignorance or woefully uninformed to think we (like every other nation on Earth) aren’t engaged or maintaining Psyops and other methods to advance agendas. There is an entire discipline in JSOC called “Psyops.” Why do you think we do all these partner force exchanges or exercises if “make them align our way” wasn’t part of it? This kind of theory shouldn’t surprise you. Do you want to be the honest guy at the poker table when you know everybody else is cheating?

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[gearhog]

2 minutes ago, Lawman said:

That guy is advancing Russian propaganda now openly admitted in a site full of professional military officers from various points of perspective to all call him out on his stupidity.

He is a Shill, and yet he continues to do it. Sorry but not sorry whatever he did in whatever life before he pretty much flushed to become that old crazy Vet on your street screaming about whatever “liberal conspiracy” or other noise.

I noticed you never addressed any specific claims in the podcast. If you are an honest person, what specific claims or false information were in that podcast that you feel were dangerous and subversive?

You didn't listen to it. You just googled it and the proof you provided was a screenshot of an unknown website that actually uses the word "accuses" in reference to other media outlets making claims about the podcast being Russian propaganda. How is that any more substantive than you simply making those claims without any proof and no screenshot. Again, I find it difficult to believe you, a professional military officer, is posting these things without pausing, stepping back, and seeing how little sense it makes.

I don't know anything about that podcast and my schedule is full, so I probably won't listen... but why should anyone trust you for slapping RP labels on something, only because it was posted by BC? I read one of your earlier posts on population or whatever earlier and it actually made sense, but what if I were to dismiss it because I automatically label everything you say as BS? You're not being honest.

[Lawman]

I noticed you never addressed any specific claims in the podcast. If you are an honest person, what specific claims or false information were in that podcast that you feel were dangerous and subversive?
You didn't listen to it. You just googled it and the proof you provided was a screenshot of an unknown website that actually uses the word "accuses" in reference to other media outlets making claims about the podcast being Russian propaganda. How is that any more substantive than you simply making those claims without any proof and no screenshot. Again, I find it difficult to believe you, a professional military officer, is posting these things without pausing, stepping back, and seeing how little sense it makes.
I don't know anything about that podcast and my schedule is full, so I probably won't listen... but why should anyone trust you for slapping RP labels on something, only because it was posted by BC? I read one of your earlier posts on population or whatever earlier and it actually made sense, but what if I were to dismiss it because I automatically label everything you say as BS? You're not being honest.

Don’t just be contrarians and pretend to be arguing from a position of honesty. “Who fact checks the fact checkers” is just chaff and flare strategy for people that know their source would never hold up.

Is RT at state funded propaganda site or not? Do I need to watch what guests they have this week to make that determination myself or can I just go off the well known fact.

It’s like knowing I don’t need to talk to MTG to know she’s a moron. Screaming “Jewish space lasers” or any other such absurdities removes you from the adult table. Same is true when you are telling us all not to be “fooled by the narrative” and listening to a podcast hosted by RT and funded by mysterious sources.


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[gearhog]

7 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Don’t just be contrarians and pretend to be arguing from a position of honesty. “Who fact checks the fact checkers” is just chaff and flare strategy for people that know their source would never hold up.

Is RT at state funded propaganda site or not? Do I need to watch what guests they have this week to make that determination myself or can I just go off the well known fact.

It’s like knowing I don’t need to talk to MTG to know she’s a moron. Screaming “Jewish space lasers” or any other such absurdities removes you from the adult table. Same is true when you are telling us all not to be “fooled by the narrative” and listening to a podcast hosted by RT and funded by mysterious sources.

That's a lot of typing to say you don't know what info you're labeling as Russian propaganda, but it isn't going to stop you.

[Lawman]

That's a lot of typing to say you don't know what info you're labeling as Russian propaganda, but it isn't going to stop you.

Oh no… there is no way to actually find out about a place without going there… restaurants and hotels must be such an adventure for you…


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[gearhog]

45 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Oh no… there is no way to actually find out about a place without going there… restaurants and hotels must be such an adventure for you…

Uh… yeah? I do around 8 overnights a month, and I make it a point to explore new places, look at the menu, and experience things for myself. I don’t understand how you mean that as a criticism. 
 

What would you suggest? Read a single review and repeat it to everyone I know without any first hand knowledge? This is what I meant when I asked if you read your posts from the perspective of others. I’m sure it sounded like a zinger in your own head, but….??

[Biff_T]

Russia sucks. 

[Lawman]

Uh… yeah? I do around 8 overnights a month, and I make it a point to explore new places, look at the menu, and experience things for myself. I don’t understand how you mean that as a criticism. 
 
What would you suggest? Read a single review and repeat it to everyone I know without any first hand knowledge? This is what I meant when I asked if you read your posts from the perspective of others. I’m sure it sounded like a zinger in your own head, but….??

There isn’t “one bad review” or whatever of the given podcast we are talking about. To borrow your metaphor you would have to “ignore multiple closings for health code so you could see yourself what all the fuss is about.”

No we don’t need to waste time and energy deciding of places with records like RT or others have a credible position.


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